Would you sue? Divorce related

[hulley]

My XH is ridiculously irresponsible with money. Has filed bankruptcy twice, never pays bills (I often end up picking up his half of DDs expenses so she doesn't miss out on things), etc.

Back when we were young and stupid, we purchased a timeshare property together. In our divorce, he insisted he keep ownership and assume all payments. I know I shouldn't have agreed to this but it was his hill to die on and got me other concessions that meant more to me.

He has paid it for the 6 years we have been divorced, even continuing to pay after his bankruptcy filing. Fast forward to this spring, he stopped paying. They caught up to me in November. I was able to settle the account for several thousand dollars in exchange for them not pursuing the matter in court and not reporting any history to my credit.

Would you sue for the settlement I made? In my state, bankruptcy filing does not trump debts assigned in a divorce proceeding. He also owes me a bit of money from the equity in our marital home (low 5 figures). In total, he owes about $20,000, give or take a few thousand. It will cost me 2-3K in attorney/filing fees and unknown time pursuing the judgement. I don't "need" the money, but I feel as if this is the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

So, WWMMD?

[vanillacourage]

What is the max you can sue for in small claims court in your area? I might go after that much since it's relatively easy.

[thumper55]

even if you sue him and win, will he actually be able to repay you? it doesn't sound like it, and it will drag on. Since you can do without the money, I'd move on.

[Deleted]

Are you likely to get the money if you sue? My mom decided against suing my dad after their divorce because she knew that she would never acutally get the money. He worked for cash and for family so he never had paychecks they could garner. If she thought there was a possibility that he would pay she would have but it wasa lost cause.
If you think there is a possibility of collecting the money I would sue. If nothing else it could go toward a college for your daughter or something to help for the future.

[hulley]

The max for small claims is (I believe) $5000, or $7500 with mandatory mediation.
I would be filing a contempt case in family court since it is related to our divorce.
He has the means to repay me, yes. He is just ridiculously irresponsible, and likes to blow money on "toys" and showy gifts. His HH income is very high for our area, and higher than mine. I agree it will drag on, but the attorney I consulted with believes a judge will order a lump sum payment, due within 30 days of the court appearance. Any remaining balance would be paid via payroll garnishment.
I think at this point I am pursuing this more on the principle rather than any need of the money. It was a large enough amount that it significantly impacted my year-end savings goals and caused us to cancel a planned vacation (which was very upsetting to DD).
I'm just tired of him getting out of everything, you know?

[limey]

If you think he can/will pay it, then yes, I would pursue it.

[dexteroni]

Jan 7, 2013 12:49:52 GMT -5 hulley said:

He has the means to repay me, yes. He is just ridiculously irresponsible, and likes to blow money on "toys" and showy gifts. His HH income is very high for our area, and higher than mine. I agree it will drag on, but the attorney I consulted with believes a judge will order a lump sum payment, due within 30 days of the court appearance. Any remaining balance would be paid via payroll garnishment.

With this update, yes, I would absolutely pursue it.

ETA: And I will admit that I would delight a little bit in the potential embarrassment he'll face from people at work knowing his wages are being garnished. Even if it's just one person in payroll, that's enough. lol.

[Deleted]

With your follow up, yes I would. And I'd set the money aside in a savings account to use for your daughter - school fees, vacations, whatever she needs. And I might start being more a pain in the ass to him about the other fees you've been covering quietly.

[aspentosh]

Definitely yes with your follow up. You might not *need* the money but it would be helpful and you deserve it since that was the original agreement.

[hulley]

Jan 7, 2013 12:51:58 GMT -5 dexteroni said:

Jan 7, 2013 12:49:52 GMT -5 hulley said:

He has the means to repay me, yes. He is just ridiculously irresponsible, and likes to blow money on "toys" and showy gifts. His HH income is very high for our area, and higher than mine. I agree it will drag on, but the attorney I consulted with believes a judge will order a lump sum payment, due within 30 days of the court appearance. Any remaining balance would be paid via payroll garnishment.

With this update, yes, I would absolutely pursue it.

ETA: And I will admit that I would delight a little bit in the potential embarrassment he'll face from people at work knowing his wages are being garnished. Even if it's just one person in payroll, that's enough. lol.

Me too . I think he has just had so many years of things aligning just so and not having to take responsibility that it's time something did. Plus, it makes me look like an easy target if he knows I'll just take it.

Unfortunately, this will not be the first time someone has garnished his wages. I believe the IRS beat me to that a few years back.

Every time I hear one of his disaster stories I'm glad we are no longer married, and that he is someone else's problem now. I can't imagine making the kind of money he makes and have no financial security. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

[kellbell191]

I would sue and set aside the money so it will benefit DD in some way...college fund, mini vacation.

[livinitup]

Yes, I would. But I'd do it to get the money, not some self-satisfaction. Don't make this personal, it's just business. If you can bring a claim to court and win it, clearing more than it cost you, then do it. For the money. The rest will never be resolved. His debt is too big and the damage too great to seek satisfaction through this. Do this because he was wrong, you can prove it and get money for it.

And who the hell cares if you *need* the money. Who doesn't need to be re-paid for a bad fucking debt that you can prove someone else owes? I don't know anybody like that. Do it because you have a case and can win.

[hulley]

Jan 7, 2013 13:12:48 GMT -5 Catlawdy said:

Jan 7, 2013 13:07:23 GMT -5 carrotsmakemefat said:

Didn't you get your name removed from the property when you divorced? Or shared CCs and stuff? Do you have a divorce decree with all this spelled out?

If you didn't then I don't think you have a leg to stand on. And why would he pay you money back? He likely won't even if he had it, which I also think is a huge possibility

The divorce decree may not be binding on third parties who are trying to collect on debts incurred by both parties during the marriage.

For example, if husband and wife incur a joint credit card bill during the marriage, one of them may take it in the divorce, and the decree may reflect this. Husband is supposed to pay, but he doesn't, then wife's credit will likely still take a knock. She can show the decree to the Visa people all she wants and insist that the judge said hubby has to pay, and they will likely say they don't care, that's between her and hubby, pay up and then pursue him.

How this all plays out will vary considerably based on the law of the state that applies.

Yes, that is pretty much what happened. He didn't have the credit/cash to support refinancing into his name only and the lien holder had nothing to gain from removing my name (not that I blame them). Like I said, it was a stupid decision made when we were young. The terms of our property/debt settlement are very clearly spelled out in our divorce decree. It is a near certainty that I will be awarded the full amount of both the home equity as well as this settlement I just paid. It's just a matter of whether to pursue it.

I appreciate catlawdy's point on undue stress to DD. Unfortunately, XH lives in such a way that she is always aware of his poor finances. She is aware of this situation and knows it has nothing to do with her. I tell her all the time that her father loves her, that his decisions don't make him a bad person, just one who makes poor decisions sometimes. If nothing else, he does love her and would not hold this action against her.

[thumper55]

Jan 7, 2013 12:49:52 GMT -5 hulley said:

The max for small claims is (I believe) $5000, or $7500 with mandatory mediation.
I would be filing a contempt case in family court since it is related to our divorce.
He has the means to repay me, yes. He is just ridiculously irresponsible, and likes to blow money on "toys" and showy gifts. His HH income is very high for our area, and higher than mine. I agree it will drag on, but the attorney I consulted with believes a judge will order a lump sum payment, due within 30 days of the court appearance. Any remaining balance would be paid via payroll garnishment.
I think at this point I am pursuing this more on the principle rather than any need of the money. It was a large enough amount that it significantly impacted my year-end savings goals and caused us to cancel a planned vacation (which was very upsetting to DD).
I'm just tired of him getting out of everything, you know?

If he has the money to pay, this changes my answer. I would move forward with pursuing it.

[hulley]

Jan 7, 2013 13:16:07 GMT -5 carrotsmakemefat said:

Jan 7, 2013 13:12:48 GMT -5 Catlawdy said:

The divorce decree may not be binding on third parties who are trying to collect on debts incurred by both parties during the marriage.

For example, if husband and wife incur a joint credit card bill during the marriage, one of them may take it in the divorce, and the decree may reflect this. Husband is supposed to pay, but he doesn't, then wife's credit will likely still take a knock. She can show the decree to the Visa people all she wants and insist that the judge said hubby has to pay, and they will likely say they don't care, that's between her and hubby, pay up and then pursue him.

How this all plays out will vary considerably based on the law of the state that applies.

My point is, why didn't she remove her name from the property? That was one of the first things I did on CCs and stuff once my lawyer gave me the green light. What benefit do you get by staying on the loan, etc?

There was no benefit - but what benefit is there to the third party lender to remove a debtor's name? I understand why they would not do that, and as it turns out it worked out well for them as they were able to collect when he stopped paying.

Fortunately, most credit was in my name, so I was able to remove him as an authorized user from my credit card as soon as legally allowed. He was removed from my accounts at places like dr's offices and the gym as well. I even removed him from my Sam's Club account .

[magdala9]

Jan 7, 2013 13:07:12 GMT -5 Catlawdy said:

Probably, so long as I would expect that I could realistically collect and it would not cause an undue burden or stress on my kid.

Yes with these limitations.