meikakoo Is this true?

[Kristinmo]

Fascinating. My BIL is deaf and I sometimes have difficulty understanding his writing on Facebook/email. Makes so much more sense now. I had no idea about the sentence structure difference.

[VillainV]

mekiakoo, I actually HADN'T noticed.

Quick question though...I live in the UK and notice that they use a different kind of sign language here that I've never seen before...or at least I don't think I've seen it. It makes sense that it wouldn't be ASL (as it's not "America" obviously), but I don't know if it's SEE? I'm no expert, but it looks different from SEE that I've seen before.

Also, I was wondering if Americans who know ASL only can come to the UK and understand whatever it is that they use here? It seems strange to me that even though it's all forms of English, that someone might not be able to understand.

And finally, is there ANY kind of internationally recognized form of sign language? It would make sense if there was...no reason for there to be a language barrier...but it seems like a bunch of different forms of sign language probably emerged in parallel, so I can easily see how there could be lots of different kinds. I had never thought about how this might make it difficult to write in English (or whatever other language)

[janiejones]

Jan 20, 2013 11:19:27 GMT -5 mekiakoo said:

I'll admit I still struggle with my English (you probably have noticed already). 

honestly, I have never thought that you struggle with it any more than anyone else here.  

Did you learn SEE because that was what your parents picked up when they learned to sign?  

[VillainV]

Jan 20, 2013 11:45:30 GMT -5 mekiakoo said:

Jan 20, 2013 11:37:54 GMT -5 VillainV said:

mekiakoo, I actually HADN'T noticed.

Quick question though...I live in the UK and notice that they use a different kind of sign language here that I've never seen before...or at least I don't think I've seen it. It makes sense that it wouldn't be ASL (as it's not "America" obviously), but I don't know if it's SEE? I'm no expert, but it looks different from SEE that I've seen before.

Also, I was wondering if Americans who know ASL only can come to the UK and understand whatever it is that they use here? It seems strange to me that even though it's all forms of English, that someone might not be able to understand.

And finally, is there ANY kind of internationally recognized form of sign language? It would make sense if there was...no reason for there to be a language barrier...but it seems like a bunch of different forms of sign language probably emerged in parallel, so I can easily see how there could be lots of different kinds. I had never thought about how this might make it difficult to write in English (or whatever other language)

Yup, there are different sign languages just like there are different kinds of spoken language. In British it's British Sign Language. French: French Sign Language (FSL), etc. ASL actually comes from FSL and they're kind of similar. 

I've gone to Deaf Olympics and met a lot of deaf people and I was not able to understand what they were signing. Their language/structure is really different. So we usually refer to gestures and are often able to get our point across just fine Just like spoken language- we have difficulty understanding a different language. 

There is actually a sign language that is usually used when there are a lot of deaf people from all over the world together in one place (like the Olympics). I've seen it and to be honest I have a very hard time understanding it. It's called ISL: International Sign Language and it is an artificially devised sign language- it has vocabulary signs from different sign languages that deaf people have agreed to use at international events and meetings. 

That makes perfect sense, I guess I just never really thought about it before.  It does seem strange that while hearing people can understand British english, deaf people can't understand BSL.   Though I guess it's the same in America with people who only know ASL or only know SEE...

I am fascinated.  Thanks so much for answering my questions:-)

[fuckyourcouch]

Mekia, I have never noticed you struggle with English.

This is so interesting, I never thought about a lot of this. Can I ask a question? I hope this doesn't sound ignorant, but how did you learn to read, or how do deaf children learn to read? I imagine not being able to hear words sounded out would be a challenge, right? Does someone follow along and explain in sign language?

[gretchenindisguise]

Mekiakoo - I have also never noticed your english was anything but good.

And I didn't realize that ASL structure was different than English. If SEE is easier and mimics English structure better, why isn't it used more?

[Deleted]

At my old job I had a Russian patient who was deaf. She only spoke Russian sign language. During the treatment I would tell her what to do, the ASL interpreter would tell the RSL interpreter who would then tell her. It was fascinating and complicated!

[sherbanator]

This is so interesting. Thanks for sharing all this insight Meki.

[mudslide]

That is really interesting. I never realized all this. Mek, I've never seen anything that would lead me to believe that you struggle with English.

[papie]

Thanks for sharing this is so interesting. I knew sign language had a different sentence structure and had actually marveled before at how great your English was, but didn't want to ask because i was worried it was a stupid question

[vicky]

Mekia, my dad has struggled with writing in English his entire life. He's been profoundly deaf since he was a child - but before writing/reading age. He "sounds" out words and they don't translate correctly. His job is less than understanding and I think it makes him so sad. His new boss has criticized his memo writing and it has made an appearance on his eval every year. I tried to have him email me his work beforehand so I could proofread it, but I think that just made him more upset.

[Deleted]

Thanks for explaining, mekia. I had never thought about this.


Sent from my cream of crap.

[Deleted]

I am totally fascinated by this! I've always wondered how human minds work without a language (verbal or physical). I'm totally amazed that lacking one actually limits complex thinking.

[Roc A Bee]

I'm usually on MM, but this is fascinating. I have a few friends who are deaf, and I've worked with a few students who are deaf, and I always have a difficult time reading their writing. That makes a lot of sense since you used SEE. Why do you think more people who are deaf don't learn or use SEE?

[Deleted]

this was so interesting. thank you, mekiakoo.

[fuckyourcouch]

That makes perfect sense. Thank you for answering!

[theirmom05]

Lurker here.

My daughter is deaf and we use SEE with her. ASL has been confusing to learn for us and SEE is much easier. Plus, we watch a lot of Baby Signing Times and its more SEE based I think. She has aides but we use them the most when she is at school.

[theirmom05]

Jan 20, 2013 19:29:29 GMT -5 mekiakoo said:

Jan 20, 2013 19:24:31 GMT -5 theirmom05 said:

Lurker here.

My daughter is deaf and we use SEE with her. ASL has been confusing to learn for us and SEE is much easier. Plus, we watch a lot of Baby Signing Times and its more SEE based I think. She has aides but we use them the most when she is at school.

Do you mind if I ask you questions? Tell me to back off if needed How old is your daughter? How is she doing with reading/writing? 

I can see how ASL can be confusing to learn. I used to teach ASL at an university and adult community education classes and I find that people struggle with learning ASL especially if they're older compared to younger kids. I'm sure it's the same with any other language though. 

I don't mind at all. She is 3.5 and she is not reading or writing yet. She has Down syndrome and doesn't have those skills yet. I never did any kind of sign language until we discovered she was deaf. She wasn't born deaf, she passed her newborn screening but it was progressive and we finally got the diagnosis when she was almost 2. It took a long time to get there. She has probably about 20 signs and it has made our life so much easier!

[open24hours]

mekiakoo I'm mostly a lurker, so please excuse the intrusion. This thread is fascinating to me as I have experience with a program students who are deaf and hard of hearing that uses SEE. But, the Deaf community in my area is very ASL and thinks SEE is an assault on their identity and that all deaf children should use ASL. I have quickly learned that deaf education is very controversial.

My SEE is much better than my ASL (well, really PSE) but I am afraid of outing myself as a SEE user to deaf adults in my area. I often slip by initializing signs that would not be initialized in ASL.

I am curious to know if you have experienced such a divide in you area, if you don't mind sharing.

[open24hours]

I think that most of our students graduate without much Deaf identity and struggle when they leave school. They do not really fit in with the Deaf community, but they don't fit in with the hearing community either. From my experience, most parents do not work to help their children fit into the Deaf world. They want them to hear and speak the language of the family and the parents do not (or cannot) try to learn the language of their children. It is a very complicated issue.

[mamasaurus]

Jan 20, 2013 11:19:27 GMT -5 mekiakoo said:

I will be honest, sometimes I think that ASL is confusing. I forgot to mention that my first language was actually SEE (Signed Exact English) and not ASL (American Sign Language). The structures are different- with SEE, you sign the exactly same way you would talk (same structure) while in ASL you sign in different structures and you don't include words like "the" "are" "was" "---ing" etc.

For example in English/SEE you would say/sign "The dog was running over the log"

In ASL it would be "Log dog run over"

Can you see how confusing it can be trying to read/write in English while communicating in ASL which is an entirely different language? I'll admit I still struggle with my English (you probably have noticed already). We are forced to think in 2 different languages at once.

I didn't notice. Your English seems very good to me. The biggest thing I notice is that you skip commas sometimes, but that's very common.

[mamasaurus]

Jan 20, 2013 21:05:05 GMT -5 mekiakoo said:

mamasaurus, I'm quiet surprised. Tell me where I usually skip using commas! I hope I don't sound dumb lol. I'm also lazy so there's that too

open24hours, I see that happening a lot too. With ASL, the deaf person also gets to experience his/her own culture, community, etc. it's sad

You often omit commas after prepositional/introductory phrases and sometimes before conjunctions, but it certainly isn't just you. I blame text-speak for the sad state of comma usage today. If you couldn't guess, I love Oxford commas.

That video you posted makes me want to netflix "The Sound and The Fury."

[gretchenindisguise]

I love oxford comma, mamasaurus.

mekiakoo, thanks for answering all of our questions. I knew some of this, but obviously not all of this and it's really fascinating to learn about.