S/O Dogs/cats from breeders--what's OK?

[catbus]

Several people in tacom's thread say they're opposed to getting a cat from a breeder, but think it's OK to get a dog from one. Also, at least one person here on MM has bought a dog from a breeder (said so specifically), shared lots of pictures, and received no flack about it. I assume the same would not be the case if that had been a cat.
So, explain to me the difference. Why is it OK to get a dog from a breeder, but not a cat? In either case, one less homeless pet gets a home, right?

[Deleted]

My personal opinion: most cats are far more interchangeable than dogs. They're all about the same size. Personality is as variable within a breed as between breeds. They generally don't DO much - they don't herd, retrieve, etc. And they are killed at far higher rates in shelters (and out of shelters for that matter).

I'm not a big fan of buying purebred dogs, but I can see more of a case for it than a cat. The only reason to have a purebred cat is to breed and show.

[Deleted]

I'm not a fan of dog or cat breeders in general. I can give exemptions if someone is buying a working dog of some sort though.

[LoveTrains]

It is only OK to buy from a breeder if they are reputable, show their dogs, and are picky about who they sell the dogs too.

I would never buy a dog from a breeder. But I do understand that some ppl want to show their dogs.

[Velvetshady]

IMO, it's not okay to get either from a breeder unless you are planning on actually showing them.

A puppy/kitten breed by a breeder is not a homeless pet. They have a home. They just also have an owner that wants to make money off of them.

[rubytue]

Well, I explained my thoughts a bit in that other thread.

There are far more cats in shelters than dog. I can't believe you can't find an acceptable cat in a shelter. Kittens are also very, very common in shelters. Puppies less so. If you have to have a puppy (and there are valid reasons for it), it can be very hard to find in a shelter. But come kitten season, there are tons of kittens. Not nearly has difficult to find.

And I tried to put my thoughts down on sizes, abilities (herding, hunting, etc), and other facets of dog breeding, but I can't quite put it into words. But, I can see a need for, say, a Chesapeake Bay Retriever - the coat is built for cold water, they are bred to swim and retrieve, etc. Cats don't serve the same work purposes as dogs, so there isn't as much of an argument for it.

And honestly, some of the dog breeds without much of job, I don't really agree with it in theory either. But gosh darn if yokies, westies, pugs, etc aren't so gosh darn adorable!

[Brie]

I am okay with purchasing dogs from reputable breeders for the purposes of showing to maintain the breed standard and to use for specific work purposes (hunting, herding, etc).

I am also okay with purchasing cats from reputable breeders to show and maintain the breed standard. But that's about it. Basically, I just don't want to see perfect or near-perfect breeds of dogs and cats die out.

The problem is that the field of truly reputable breeders is much smaller than the general population thinks it is.

[mbcdefg]

I don't like it when people bypass shelters in favor of breeders. Like I said in the other post, ultimately what matters is that the animal is getting a good home, but I just don't get the point of buying a puppy/kitten. There are ways to adopt/rescue specific breeds if that's what's important to you.

Cat breeds aren't as widely known as dog breeds, so you're less likely to have people looking for specific cat characteristics the way that they look for specific characteristics in a dog. And like tokenhoser, said cats are a bit more "generic" than dogs ... most people seem to look for levels of friendliness (independent, very cuddly, a happy medium), color/appearance, age, and maybe the cat's mouser capabilities. And most cats look alike, very generally speaking. There's not as much publically known variety in cats as there is in dogs.

Meanwhile, with dogs, people might want a certain size and appearance. There are big differences between a Chihuahua and a Great Dane in both of those characteristics, and you're likely not doing to see that in cats. And you have more control over a cat if it gets nasty with you, since they're smaller and can't do as much damage as a large angry dog could, so I think people are looking for more of a sense of control when they pick a dog. And I think a lot of people figure that all cats are kind of pissy and independent, so it's a moot point to look for a specific breed. Plus there are usually way more cats in shelters than there are dogs.

And there are also social stigmas attached to cats and dogs, and getting them from breeders. Get a dog from a breeder and people may assume that you want a specific size, that you have certain allergies, that you want a family-friendly breed, the whole "avoiding a pit bull because they're all vicious" crap, that you're carrying on a family tradition, that you need a specific task done (herding, hunting, police dog), etc. The general public seems to regard cat owners as "weirdos" to start with, so people who get a cat from a breeder are probably just thought of as complete nuts.

There's just no excuse in getting a dog or cat from a pet store. I've had a lot of friends who've gone this route, and the reasons they provide just solidify for me that they've done ZERO research into getting a pet. (I've never asked them why they went to a pet store, they just offer the explanation and I smile and nod and turn away before I start an argument, since the deed is already done. I've attempted to talk people out of buying from a pet store in the past when they said they were considering it, however.)

[chessie]

I am okay with buying dogs/cats/horses-whatever animals from a reputable breeder. A good breeder will not breed careless, like the backyard breeders. A reputable breeder will also be very picky whom they allow to sell their dogs, they have contracts. If I can't keep my GSP, he goes back to the breeder, our breeder does not want their stock in any shelter. I have gotten my Chesapeake retriever and my GSP from a reputable breeder for showing/hunting quality.

[halfpint]

We got our Wheaten from a researched, recommended, reputable breeder because there were a number of specific breed traits that we were looking for. The largest one is lack of shedding, and thus less likely to induce an allergy attack in me or members of my family. We spent over a year looking in shelters and through rescues with no success, and ultimately decided to get a puppy from said breeder.

Next time we'll most likely get a dog through a Midwestern Wheaten rescue that we've worked with in the past - since getting a Wheaten and fostering other dogs, we've made so many rescue contacts that I feel we'll be able to find a great rescue when the time comes to get another dog.

I don't know about cats - I wouldn't shame someone for doing it if they really wanted a particular breed, but God, there are SO MANY cats in shelters, and they seem to be even worse off than dogs when it comes to overpopulation and being euthanized. There just aren't many calico or tabby cat rescues out there lobbying for the homeless cats of the world. And maybe this is because I'm not really a cat person, but to me, a cat is a cat. They all shed, so why not save one from certain death?

[mbcdefg]

Plus, on petfinder.com and in shelter listings, most cats are just listed as something like "American Shorthair." Dogs are typically listed by breed(s), or their best guess at the breed.

[rageragerage]

I am not a fan of dogs or cats coming from breeders. If I see somebody post about a dog they got from a breeder I just don't comment because generally I won't have anything nice to say.

I also know that a lot of people think they are using reputable breeders that are really supporting a backyard breeder.

[Susie]

Doggie and Puppy Derkins are both from breeders.  Not the same breeder, but they are related to each other.  Doggie D's dad is Puppy D's great grandfather.

Both breeders had us fill out an extensive questionnaire to determine whether we were an appropriate "placement" for one of their puppies, we met in person, and with Puppy Derkins, the breeder met Doggie D too.  Both parents of both our dogs have OFA, CERF, and SAS certifications.  Their parents show, and have been very successful. 

I can appreciate the desire, the benefits, etc. of adopting a shelter pet.  We didn't because we felt we had the best chance to get personalities that fit in the pack by sticking with a genetic line that we knew and were familiar with.  We were willing to spend what they cost.  All 4 of Doggie D, Puppy D, and my parents' dog and puppy are related, and they do all get along wonderfully, and have great dispositions.

I would be ok with buying a cat from a breeder under the same types of circumstances - i.e., the breeder is responsible, is breeding in furtherance of maintaining the breed standard, the parents all have the appropriate health certifications (I have no idea what those would be for a cat), the pet parents have fully researched to make sure the breed is the right fit, etc.

[winemaker06]

Jan 21, 2013 14:45:15 GMT -5 rubytue said:

And I tried to put my thoughts down on sizes, abilities (herding, hunting, etc), and other facets of dog breeding, but I can't quite put it into words. But, I can see a need for, say, a Chesapeake Bay Retriever - the coat is built for cold water, they are bred to swim and retrieve, etc. Cats don't serve the same work purposes as dogs, so there isn't as much of an argument for it.

I have a step-aunt who breeds, trains, and competes with her Chesapeake Bay Retrievers (pheasant hunting).  I've never been much for buying animals from breeders for any reason.  But after a few long conversations with her, I realized she really works hard to improve the genetic line and the health of her dogs, etc.  That's the only person I've ever met who has a good reason for breeding. 

I also agree with some that say it's harder to breed cat temperaments like dogs.  But I don't have experience with anything but rescues for all my pets :-)

[ESF]

Jan 21, 2013 14:40:38 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

My personal opinion: most cats are far more interchangeable than dogs. They're all about the same size. Personality is as variable within a breed as between breeds. They generally don't DO much - they don't herd, retrieve, etc. And they are killed at far higher rates in shelters (and out of shelters for that matter).

I'm not a big fan of buying purebred dogs, but I can see more of a case for it than a cat. The only reason to have a purebred cat is to breed and show.

I agree with this.

I also think it's problematic when people have determined the criteria they want in a dog, and then buy a dog even when there's  a huge overpopulation of that breed/type in the shelters.  For example, there are a gabillion chihuahuas and chihuahua mixes in the shelters, particularly in California.  If you live here and you want a lap dog, there is really just no need to buy one when hundreds are being euthanized every week. 

[simpsongal]

Funny, I think it's more justifiable to get a cat from a breeder b/c you're so much less likely to find what you're looking for in a shelter.

That said, I just wish more people in general would adopt - dog or cat. And on that theme, spay or neuter their pets too (paging Bob Barker). Millions of dogs are euthanized each year, it just breaks my heart. When we used to go to our dog park in Arlington, folks are so liberal and progressive in the area that anyone with a purebred would practically apologize and justify the need for their breeder dog (e.g., I have allergies, we have small children, I grew up with this breed, etc.).

We're trying to make a pitch for adoption to SIL, but she has her heart set on a particular breed. I get it - it's an adorable dog, she's knows what she's getting. But I know I could find an adorable shelter pup that she would grow to love just as much.

I think posters don't criticize breeder dogs when folks post pics because it isn't the right forum for those comments.

[livinitup]

Why in the world would you breed a cat for sale? What special blood-lines or qualities are desirable for cats? Sleeping longer? Or being less/more disinterested? Color markings? Better mice catching? Better pouncing? Maybe shredding the toilet papers rolls better?

I think there might be a case for breeding certain dogs for desirable traits, but you can't say the same for cats. And I'm a huge cat lover. I'm also bias from my success at adopting strays and rescues. Wonderful success. I can't imagine a breeder improvement on the random lot of strays and shelter cats. At all.

[Deleted]

There is a great variety of coats in mutt cats. You can find any variation you please in a non-purebred. You just have to look for it and not consider it part of a bloodline; it's just a property of that specific cat.

We did select our cat based on coat type. I've lived with a lot of cats and I knew exactly what I wanted and didn't want.

[Deleted]

I don't think there is any good reason not to get a shelter pet honestly. I guess if showing is your thing, I can see that as a good reason - but that's not an interest and I think it's a weird hobby anyway, lol.

I got my golden from what I guess is a backyard breeder. I didn't know better. My first dog, I was 21, etc. I would never get another breeder dog - even from a "reputable" one - after getting my shelter dog. He's awesome and it's been such a rewarding experience having him blossom in our house. He's got his quirks but so does my purebred. And it kills me to think he ever didn't have a home or could have been killed.

Nothing against Susie, I think "to each their own" on most things, but I think the idea of having to have a certain genetic line to get along or whatever is silly. Especially for a golden retriever. They get along with everyone! When we get together with DH's family we have a pack of mutts hanging out (and my golden) and everyone is fine.

I honestly think most people who don't get shelter dogs don't want a "damaged" dog or think that somehow starting out with a puppy means you can make the dog exactly what you want. At least that's what 99% of people I've talked to IRL thought.

[chessie]

I can completely relate to Susie, pretty much why we keep going back to our breeder for our dogs. I tried to adopt a 2 dogs this last year from a rescue and a shelter and that is exactly what I got "damaged" dogs. Within 2 weeks, one of the dogs attacked me and my other dog. Both dogs had to be returned even after we tried to work things out, but the dogs were beyond even the shelter/rescues could fix.

My advice is to whatever dog/cat/animal you take home, make sure you can have them for a trial period first before you officially own them. Research everything! Make sure they are good with your family, other animals and your home. How they act where you first meet them, is completely different, especially after 2 weeks at your place- when you feed them correctly, fix whatever problems health wise at the vet. Many times their true self comes out at that point. At this point in time I will never go back to the shelter or local rescue. Too risky and I am not willing to take liability risk.

[LoveTrains]

Jan 21, 2013 18:12:43 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

We're trying to make a pitch for adoption to SIL, but she has her heart set on a particular breed. I get it - it's an adorable dog, she's knows what she's getting. But I know I could find an adorable shelter pup that she would grow to love just as much.

I think posters don't criticize breeder dogs when folks post pics because it isn't the right forum for those comments.

But you can have a pure-bred dog that doesn't come from a breeder. What kind of dog does she want - there MUST be some sort of breed-specific rescue for it.

Our pug rescue gets 50+ dogs each year that desperately need a home. That is an average of one a week, and sometimes we have a lot more. If you want a pug, we will get the perfect pug for you. We might not have it this second, but probably within 2-3 months one will come up that is a good match. We even get puppies on occasion.

I really see no reason to ever buy a pug unless you want to show them and want a show quality pug.

[Deleted]

Getting a dog or a cat from a truly reputable breeder doesn't bother me.

We looked into many reputable breeders, but in the end adopted our dog via a breed specific rescue.

[liveintheville]

My husband has always had corgis. There is no corgi rescue in our area. So when it comes time to get another dog, I'm not sure what we'll do. We'll check shelters first, but I haven't seen too many in local shelters. We're in no rush for another dog however so we're not actively looking. If he and the kids really want another corgi, though, I'm ok with getting one from a breeder.

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2013 19:14:49 GMT -5 liveintheville said:

My brother got a corgi mix through Petsmart. It was a weird dog though (half lab LOLOLOL).

But there are almost always rescues. They just may not always have dogs on hand, though, so you may have to wait - my (other) brother has a berner and the shelter contacted the rescue about the dog. There weren't any available when he first put in his application so he had to wait.

[liveintheville]

Jan 21, 2013 19:17:35 GMT -5 @mrsbecky07 said:

Jan 21, 2013 19:14:49 GMT -5 liveintheville said:

My brother got a corgi mix through Petsmart. It was a weird dog though (half lab LOLOLOL).

But there are almost always rescues. They just may not always have dogs on hand, though, so you may have to wait - my (other) brother has a berner and the shelter contacted the rescue about the dog. There weren't any available when he first put in his application so he had to wait.

I should just start asking people on the street about corgi rescue or where they got theirs. There are quite a few in the neighborhood. I will say they make great apartment dogs.

[Bumblebee]

Both of my dogs came from reputable breeders.  I was very specific about which breeds would work best for our family.  Unfortunately both breeds are prone to significant health problems due to poor breeding practices. I bought my pups from breeders whose lines were fully tested and had great health records.

Also, my parents had a negative experience with a rescue that would make me very cautious about which rescues I would trust in the future.

i understand why my choice is not popular.  I love animals, and the death of so many wonderful dogs and cats is terribly sad.

[ESF]

Jan 21, 2013 19:17:35 GMT -5 @mrsbecky07 said:

Jan 21, 2013 19:14:49 GMT -5 liveintheville said:

My brother got a corgi mix through Petsmart. It was a weird dog though (half lab LOLOLOL).

But there are almost always rescues. They just may not always have dogs on hand, though, so you may have to wait - my (other) brother has a berner and the shelter contacted the rescue about the dog. There weren't any available when he first put in his application so he had to wait.

OMG I bet he is awesome. I loooooove corgi mixes.  Have you seen this: 

www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/awesome-corgi-cross-breeds

I look at this website more than I should.  It is awesome.

My dog is almost certainly half corgi as well, and IMHO, cuter than the half corgi-half chihuahua on the buzzfeed page.   And she came from a shelter.  Don't rule them out liveintheville!  There are also national corgi rescues that will assist in transport, and my understanding is that they give priority to people who've owned corgis before, so you'd probably be a good candidate.

And here's a crazy quasi-related story.  When I walk my dog around here, I get normal questions like, "any idea what kind of dog she is?" or "she looks like she has some chihuahua/corgi/etc in her."    Over Christmas, I went to Orange County, and took her to the Irvine Spectrum (giant outdoor mall).  I was there for an hour and a half.  SIX separate people asked me if she was a "miniature corgi."  Prior to this trip to the mall, I had been asked this question exactly once around here in a year and a half of having her.  Not a single person in that hour and a half asked a question that would suggest they thought she was a mutt. Clearly the pet store faux-breed brainwashing around there has to be just awful for so many people in a 90 minute time span to think that there is such a thing as a "miniature corgi."  

[liveintheville]

Jan 21, 2013 20:37:30 GMT -5 ESF said:

Jan 21, 2013 19:17:35 GMT -5 @mrsbecky07 said:

My brother got a corgi mix through Petsmart. It was a weird dog though (half lab LOLOLOL).

But there are almost always rescues. They just may not always have dogs on hand, though, so you may have to wait - my (other) brother has a berner and the shelter contacted the rescue about the dog. There weren't any available when he first put in his application so he had to wait.

OMG I bet he is awesome. I loooooove corgi mixes.  Have you seen this: 

www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/awesome-corgi-cross-breeds

I look at this website more than I should.  It is awesome.

My dog is almost certainly half corgi as well, and IMHO, cuter than the half corgi-half chihuahua on the buzzfeed page.   And she came from a shelter.  Don't rule them out liveintheville!  There are also national corgi rescues that will assist in transport, and my understanding is that they give priority to people who've owned corgis before, so you'd probably be a good candidate.

And here's a crazy quasi-related story.  When I walk my dog around here, I get normal questions like, "any idea what kind of dog she is?" or "she looks like she has some chihuahua/corgi/etc in her."    Over Christmas, I went to Orange County, and took her to the Irvine Spectrum (giant outdoor mall).  I was there for an hour and a half.  SIX separate people asked me if she was a "miniature corgi."  Prior to this trip to the mall, I had been asked this question exactly once around here in a year and a half of having her.  Not a single person in that hour and a half asked a question that would suggest they thought she was a mutt. Clearly the pet store faux-breed brainwashing around there has to be just awful for so many people in a 90 minute time span to think that there is such a thing as a "miniature corgi."  

OMG those are cute!!! I will definitely keep a lookout on petfinder for corgi mixes! Good to know about the rescues. I didn't realize we could get one from far away. Good to know we don't necessarily have to be local. And yeah, we'd qualify. Q was H's 4th corgi

[isabel]

I think this is sort of a "to each his own" kind of thing, but unless you're showing the dog, I don't really think it's a good idea to get it from a breeder. There are tons of shelters and breed-specific rescue organizations to get dogs from. I also don't see enough differentiation in cat breeds to warrant getting one from a breeder (unless, of course, you plan to show it).

DH and I have two beagles that were my family dogs when I was younger. My mom was convinced that the breed was the way to go, so she got them from breeders. I'm fairly certain one was reputable, but not the other. When our dogs are gone, we will absolutely be getting a shelter dog (hopefully under a year old).

Eventually, after our kids are out of the house, we would love to adopt older dogs and give them a few great final years.

ETA: This rescue organization makes me want to bawl my eyes out. I hope to adopt one of these dogs eventually: beaglefreedomproject.org/

[auntie]

Jan 21, 2013 18:19:29 GMT -5 livinitup said:

Why in the world would you breed a cat for sale? What special blood-lines or qualities are desirable for cats? Sleeping longer? Or being less/more disinterested? Color markings? Better mice catching? Better pouncing? Maybe shredding the toilet papers rolls better?

I think there might be a case for breeding certain dogs for desirable traits, but you can't say the same for cats. And I'm a huge cat lover. I'm also bias from my success at adopting strays and rescues. Wonderful success. I can't imagine a breeder improvement on the random lot of strays and shelter cats. At all.

I am allergic to most cats. I have had success living with purebred himmies and persians. Certainly, I would love to go the shelter route, but it would be very unlikely to find a cat who met my requirements. Cat breeds do vary a bit in terms of personality and behavior; 2 of my last 3 were pure bred himmies and had the characteristic himmie personality- sweet, engaged, and playful.

DS's cat recently died and we've been considering an adult "retired" breeding cat or even a "rescue" if it was just a cat who needed a new home. But I will probably end up at a reputable show breeder.