Gifted Testing?

[mishap]

I know this is @ related, but the MM Moms section is usually mostly  babies/toddlers. Plus there is a MM component.

Took DS1 (6 years, 1st grade) to a behavioral pedi for ADHD screening. Dr. suggested we have him tested for giftedness, mostly because he’s reading at an advanced level. He said the testing could cost around $1,500 and schools don’t usually pay for it.

Our school doesn’t have a G&T program. I looked into some of the G&T summer camps in our relative area, and the closest ones are over an hour away and waaaay more than we could ever afford for a summer camp program. (Which makes me a little sad because I know he would totally geek out over the classes they offered.) Is there any other reason why we would have him tested? That is a lot of money for us to spend, and it’s not really in our budget.

I know my snowflake is speshul. Is there any compelling reason I need to shell out $1,500 to find out how much? If our school had a G&T program, I’d probably feel differently.

ETA: Sorry for the wonky formatting. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.

[joenali]

Are his teachers meeting his "advanced" reading needs? They should be. $1500 is a lot to spend on testing but it could potentially show that he has needs that need to be addressed in the classroom and I'm sure your want your kid to meet his full potential . I've seen (very few) gifted and talented kids with an IEP before. It's not common but you could go that route if you choose.

[mishap]

Jan 22, 2013 9:26:50 GMT -5 joenali said:

Are his teachers meeting his "advanced" reading needs? They should be. $1500 is a lot to spend on testing but it could potentially show that he has needs that need to be addressed in the classroom and I'm sure your want your kid to meet his full potential . I've seen (very few) gifted and talented kids with an IEP before. It's not common but you could go that route if you choose.

Yes, kind of. He still has to read the incredibly simple readers that the class is doing, but he's allowed to go to the library if his work is done to get more books.

[joenali]

Jan 22, 2013 9:31:20 GMT -5 mishap said:

Jan 22, 2013 9:26:50 GMT -5 joenali said:

Are his teachers meeting his "advanced" reading needs? They should be. $1500 is a lot to spend on testing but it could potentially show that he has needs that need to be addressed in the classroom and I'm sure your want your kid to meet his full potential . I've seen (very few) gifted and talented kids with an IEP before. It's not common but you could go that route if you choose.

Yes, kind of. He still has to read the incredibly simple readers that the class is doing, but he's allowed to go to the library if his work is done to get more books.

I really still can't believe that teachers are having kids read the same books as the whole class. Teachers should be teaching strategies that ALL readers should learn and know and kids  should be reading at their own level to practice and apply those strategies. 

Based in this information, go get him tested and then you can potentially show the school that going it the library to get books isn't really meeting his needs. 

[mishap]

Jan 22, 2013 9:43:09 GMT -5 @vicmo said:

Is there no available G&T program in your district? Where I grew up, individual schools might not have stellar G&T programs in the school, but there was one feeder school in the area that took G&T students (via bus) from the entire town. Granted, in my town, everyone was also tested in grade 4 to see who would qualify for G&T programs.

I don't want to turn this into one of those "well I was G&T and blah blah blah" posts, but there's a big difference between occasionally getting to read a book at a higher reading level after finishing your normal work, and being in a dedicated G&T program where you are challenged across all subjects and surrounded by G&T peers.

Nope, the district doesn't have one. There is a program that does learning in a more "child-led environment" that we've looked at, but didn't enroll him in. This is open to all students, though. It is at a different school than he's currently in.

[jennistarr1]

perhaps a local university that would be training psychologists

or any research studies that might administer an IQ test (though the likely could not give you a score)

but I agree, if there is no placement that would come from this testing...why bother...just talk with his teachers about to set up school to play to his strengths and weaknesses

[hannamaren]

Isnt there some sort of gifted online test?
I remember the example question
"How far can a dog run into the wood?"
Halfway, because then he is running out.

[awkwardpenguin]

What did the pedi say about the ADHD possibility? Was he suggesting that maybe DS is gifted and therefore "just bored"?

I have weird feelings on this, because this is pretty much the story of my childhood. I had clear ADHD symptoms, but everyone said I was gifted and just bored and that's why I didn't pay attention. I was tested for giftedness and indeed was, but that didn't fix any of the problems I was having in school. But the problems I was having in school no one really thought were a big deal because I was smart and I was just a "special snowflake" who lost everything all the time and forgot what I was saying mid-sentence and "oh that's just Little Penguin".

When I went to college I struggled and found out about ADHD on my own and was like "hold the phone". I went to my own doc who referred me to an HMO psychologist. I got a 95th percentile on their symptom screener but passed the "test of continuous attention" they gave me. (For the record, you can't really dx ADHD with only two tests). That was enough to get me referred to full psychoeducational testing. THAT guy saw my history and knew he had to scale my test scores to my IQ, and when he did that, I was a big flaming ball of ADHDness. Some of my tests were 3+ standard deviations off where they "should" be and he was pretty impressed I'd managed to get into college and actually pass my first year.

So in summary, if the ADHD dx is still in question, I might pay for more testing to find out what's really going on. I'd call the provider you've been referred to for testing to talk about your concerns, what he thinks will be answered by testing, etc. I don't think you need to test just to find out your kid is smarter than the average bear, but if he's having issues that are making life difficult for him, even if he seems to be coping pretty well, I'd probably pursue testing to figure out what's up.

[Deleted]

In Kansas, "gifted" designations are run by the state as part of special education. Each district's programs vary slightly, but they all have them.

And it totally depends on the kid as o whether they are helpful or not. I loved them--they helped with my socialization if nothing else. I did not fit in especially well with my peers in grade school/middle school and it gave me a lot of confidence.

My sister however never really liked it and didn't get a lot benefit.

Some of my teachers over time did give me advanced work which was nice--especially in math. But my school always had different reading groups in grade school so kids were placed according to skill regardless of "gifted" designation.

[kershnic]

What's the point if you can't do anything with the results?

That said, part of the IEP evaluation process here at least is an IQ test, which is probably what you're thinking of as a tested for "giftedness."

If you really just want to know, the grad student idea is a good one too. I took an assessment class in grad school and had the most annoying time finding 3 kids whose parents were willing to let me do an IQ test with them.

[cajunmom]

Both of my DD's read at an advanced level (DD1 is 10/4th grade and reads at a 8th-9th grade level and DD2 is 6/1st grade and reads at a 4th-5th grade level). DD1 had gifted testing in 2nd grade but didn't qualify...I don't know if we'll even bother with DD2. Their teachers are proactive about providing them with more advanced reading material so I'm happy with that for now.

[mishap]

Jan 22, 2013 10:22:51 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

What did the pedi say about the ADHD possibility? Was he suggesting that maybe DS is gifted and therefore "just bored"?

I have weird feelings on this, because this is pretty much the story of my childhood. I had clear ADHD symptoms, but everyone said I was gifted and just bored and that's why I didn't pay attention. I was tested for giftedness and indeed was, but that didn't fix any of the problems I was having in school. But the problems I was having in school no one really thought were a big deal because I was smart and I was just a "special snowflake" who lost everything all the time and forgot what I was saying mid-sentence and "oh that's just Little Penguin".

When I went to college I struggled and found out about ADHD on my own and was like "hold the phone". I went to my own doc who referred me to an HMO psychologist. I got a 95th percentile on their symptom screener but passed the "test of continuous attention" they gave me. (For the record, you can't really dx ADHD with only two tests). That was enough to get me referred to full psychoeducational testing. THAT guy saw my history and knew he had to scale my test scores to my IQ, and when he did that, I was a big flaming ball of ADHDness. Some of my tests were 3+ standard deviations off where they "should" be and he was pretty impressed I'd managed to get into college and actually pass my first year.

So in summary, if the ADHD dx is still in question, I might pay for more testing to find out what's really going on. I'd call the provider you've been referred to for testing to talk about your concerns, what he thinks will be answered by testing, etc. I don't think you need to test just to find out your kid is smarter than the average bear, but if he's having issues that are making life difficult for him, even if he seems to be coping pretty well, I'd probably pursue testing to figure out what's up.

Yes, I do think this is part of it, although he's certainly not dismissing the possibility of ADHD. Kindergarten was a nightmare for DS. They were practicing letter sounds, which he had known since he was 2. He was smart enought to already know all the course work, but still too immature to know how to occupy himself otherwise. His teacher did nothing to help him and instead he got into trouble daily for not staying in his seat.

First grade has been better. His teacher is firmer (which he needs) but lets him read when he doesn't know what to do with himself, which he loves. Both of his teachers (and the school counselor) have told us that he likely gets into trouble because he's bored. I don't really know what to do with this information.

When he's interested in the topic, he is hyper-focused. He loves learning -- he begs for it. He spent two hours yesterday drawing pictures of slides from his microscope. But ask him to get dressed and brush his teeth? Forget it. I constantly find him in his room with no clothes on and reading a book because he forgot halfway through what to do. His activity levels are through the roof.  

[genet313]

Jan 22, 2013 9:43:09 GMT -5 @vicmo said:

Is there no available G&T program in your district? Where I grew up, individual schools might not have stellar G&T programs in the school, but there was one feeder school in the area that took G&T students (via bus) from the entire town. Granted, in my town, everyone was also tested in grade 4 to see who would qualify for G&T programs.

I don't want to turn this into one of those "well I was G&T and blah blah blah" posts, but there's a big difference between occasionally getting to read a book at a higher reading level after finishing your normal work, and being in a dedicated G&T program where you are challenged across all subjects and surrounded by G&T peers.

This.  We also had district wide for elementary school, and then were in separate classes for middle school.  As someone who also tested into G&T, I would say the same.   And G&T actually gets better as you get older - if you're in public school with tracking, you'll enter middle school in the "top" track and take advanced math classes, which puts you ahead for AP-track classes in high school.  

Plus the G&T classes were awesome, and I have some of my best memories from G&T classes (to be fair, also worst, like learning the damn Greek alphabet, wtf the point of that was, I have no idea).   

Also, G&T is more than just advanced reading, it's about developing other skills.  I was a crazy advanced reader/language arts kid, but I couldn't do math for shit.  G&T pushed me to take more advanced math classes and work harder to understand it.  If I hadn't been tracked, I would not have gotten those skills.

ETA: I did not see  further response that there was no G&T program for your entire district.   In that case, I might hesitate to have him tested. Perhaps just try to see if you can find private programs, similar to camp but cheaper, to help him advance.

[mishap]

Jan 22, 2013 10:43:49 GMT -5 genet313 said:

Jan 22, 2013 9:43:09 GMT -5 @vicmo said:

Is there no available G&T program in your district? Where I grew up, individual schools might not have stellar G&T programs in the school, but there was one feeder school in the area that took G&T students (via bus) from the entire town. Granted, in my town, everyone was also tested in grade 4 to see who would qualify for G&T programs.

I don't want to turn this into one of those "well I was G&T and blah blah blah" posts, but there's a big difference between occasionally getting to read a book at a higher reading level after finishing your normal work, and being in a dedicated G&T program where you are challenged across all subjects and surrounded by G&T peers.

This.  We also had district wide for elementary school, and then were in separate classes for middle school.  As someone who also tested into G&T, I would say the same.   And G&T actually gets better as you get older - if you're in public school with tracking, you'll enter middle school in the "top" track and take advanced math classes, which puts you ahead for AP-track classes in high school.  

Plus the G&T classes were awesome, and I have some of my best memories from G&T classes (to be fair, also worst, like learning the damn Greek alphabet, wtf the point of that was, I have no idea).   

Also, G&T is more than just advanced reading, it's about developing other skills.  I was a crazy advanced reader/language arts kid, but I couldn't do math for shit.  G&T pushed me to take more advanced math classes and work harder to understand it.  If I hadn't been tracked, I would not have gotten those skills.

The district has no G&T program at all.

[genet313]

Jan 22, 2013 10:46:54 GMT -5 mishap said:

Jan 22, 2013 10:43:49 GMT -5 genet313 said:

This.  We also had district wide for elementary school, and then were in separate classes for middle school.  As someone who also tested into G&T, I would say the same.   And G&T actually gets better as you get older - if you're in public school with tracking, you'll enter middle school in the "top" track and take advanced math classes, which puts you ahead for AP-track classes in high school.  

Plus the G&T classes were awesome, and I have some of my best memories from G&T classes (to be fair, also worst, like learning the damn Greek alphabet, wtf the point of that was, I have no idea).   

Also, G&T is more than just advanced reading, it's about developing other skills.  I was a crazy advanced reader/language arts kid, but I couldn't do math for shit.  G&T pushed me to take more advanced math classes and work harder to understand it.  If I hadn't been tracked, I would not have gotten those skills.

The district has no G&T program at all.

See my ETA in my previous post.  With no program in the entire district, I'd try to work on advancing his skills on your own, and finding cheaper options than that camp to help him.

[awkwardpenguin]

Jan 22, 2013 10:40:58 GMT -5 mishap said:

Jan 22, 2013 10:22:51 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

What did the pedi say about the ADHD possibility? Was he suggesting that maybe DS is gifted and therefore "just bored"?

I have weird feelings on this, because this is pretty much the story of my childhood. I had clear ADHD symptoms, but everyone said I was gifted and just bored and that's why I didn't pay attention. I was tested for giftedness and indeed was, but that didn't fix any of the problems I was having in school. But the problems I was having in school no one really thought were a big deal because I was smart and I was just a "special snowflake" who lost everything all the time and forgot what I was saying mid-sentence and "oh that's just Little Penguin".

When I went to college I struggled and found out about ADHD on my own and was like "hold the phone". I went to my own doc who referred me to an HMO psychologist. I got a 95th percentile on their symptom screener but passed the "test of continuous attention" they gave me. (For the record, you can't really dx ADHD with only two tests). That was enough to get me referred to full psychoeducational testing. THAT guy saw my history and knew he had to scale my test scores to my IQ, and when he did that, I was a big flaming ball of ADHDness. Some of my tests were 3+ standard deviations off where they "should" be and he was pretty impressed I'd managed to get into college and actually pass my first year.

So in summary, if the ADHD dx is still in question, I might pay for more testing to find out what's really going on. I'd call the provider you've been referred to for testing to talk about your concerns, what he thinks will be answered by testing, etc. I don't think you need to test just to find out your kid is smarter than the average bear, but if he's having issues that are making life difficult for him, even if he seems to be coping pretty well, I'd probably pursue testing to figure out what's up.

Yes, I do think this is part of it, although he's certainly not dismissing the possibility of ADHD. Kindergarten was a nightmare for DS. They were practicing letter sounds, which he had known since he was 2. He was smart enought to already know all the course work, but still too immature to know how to occupy himself otherwise. His teacher did nothing to help him and instead he got into trouble daily for not staying in his seat.

First grade has been better. His teacher is firmer (which he needs) but lets him read when he doesn't know what to do with himself, which he loves. Both of his teachers (and the school counselor) have told us that he likely gets into trouble because he's bored. I don't really know what to do with this information.

When he's interested in the topic, he is hyper-focused. He loves learning -- he begs for it. He spent two hours yesterday drawing pictures of slides from his microscope. But ask him to get dressed and brush his teeth? Forget it. I constantly find him in his room with no clothes on and reading a book because he forgot halfway through what to do. His activity levels are through the roof.  

Yeah....that last paragraph sounds like me A LOT.

I'm honestly not sure what the giftedness testing could do, although in theory he could be entitled to an IEP on account of giftedness.  I would check out a few books from the library or on Amazon about giftedness and see what types of things they recommend.

Sounds like you already plan to continue to pursue the ADHD dx either way.  Best of luck in figuring out the best way to help your son.

[Deleted]

My kids do the gifted program through a local university. I didn't have to do a full battery of testing (although DS2 did for his ASD diagnoses and that was about $2k--that insurance paid because we did it through developmental pediatrician). The gifted program offered testing so we could qualify. It was I think $150 for each kid.

[Deleted]

Oh and our gifted "camp" is expensive, but they have financial aid available.

[imojoebunny]

For just gifted testing, I would call around and see if you can find it cheaper.  I just had DD tested, a complete educational and medical battery, including IQ, but also processing, auditory, visual, ADHD, and some other things.  It was $1275, insurance covered none of it.  Considering this testing took from 9am to 4pm, I would think it would be cheaper for just the one component.  Advanced reading is not necessarily a sign of being gifted.  DD's school does do gifted testing, it is IQ, teacher recommendation, creativity, and motivation based.  You have to have all 4 to get into the program.  About 10% of the kids in her class are in it.  

[Deleted]

Does your insurance cover any psychological testing? As part of our ADHD evaluations, we give an IQ test. Since you have concerns about ADHD, I think it would be worth it to get the testing. Some insurances will cover part or all of testing.

[onetruething]

I had it done dor my ds in 2009 and it cost $750 in NC. I did it so that he could have early entry into Kdg as well as G & T. We have since moved to Mass and I found having the hard data helpful, so that as pp said- I can provide them with evidence that they need to meet his needs.