I think most of us pray in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit but I have no idea why we don't cross ourselves as a whole. Although I suppose this is where I admit that I do, especially when I'm thinking something prayer like in the car since obviously bowing my head and closing my eyes would be a bad idea. LOL
It's comforting. I wonder if that offends people to do so when you aren't Catholic. IDK.
I'd be curious if there are any Christian denominations who don't believe Jesus is one with God.
I would say there isn't. I mean, this is where the trinity is confusing. I grew up with it and it's still confusing to me.
There are distinctions all over the Bible of Jesus referring to God as "My Father". It would appear that they are two different people. So worshiping Jesus would not be the same as worshiping God. But then there is the verse "I and the Father are one."
I honestly never felt that comfortable with the overuse of Jesus in the fundie church I grew up in. It was always "Praise Jesus, pray for Jesus to heal you". This is why you'll always hear people call them Jesus freaks and not God freaks. Because they can't manage a sentence without saying Jesus.
In the Episcopal church we absolutely believe in the Trinity but I do feel like it's more of a worship to God thanking him for Jesus.
I hope this isn't too confusing.
honestly it's all good with me. That's what great about denominations. If there is a sticking point with something, you can move on to a different church / same gist. So I hope I don't seem like I'm picking on Protestants or anything.
I think most of us pray in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit but I have no idea why we don't cross ourselves as a whole. Although I suppose this is where I admit that I do, especially when I'm thinking something prayer like in the car since obviously bowing my head and closing my eyes would be a bad idea. LOL
It's comforting. I wonder if that offends people to do so when you aren't Catholic. IDK.
I don't think so. At least it shouldn't. My mom was raised Lutheran and always crossed herself. Many Episcopals do too.
I think most of us pray in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit but I have no idea why we don't cross ourselves as a whole. Although I suppose this is where I admit that I do, especially when I'm thinking something prayer like in the car since obviously bowing my head and closing my eyes would be a bad idea. LOL
It's comforting. I wonder if that offends people to do so when you aren't Catholic. IDK.
If it means anything, it doesn't offend me.
It does, actually. I've thought about asking several times actually but never got around to it.
I feel like there is more of a distinction of this in the Episcopal church I attend. They use words like God or Lord much more. The more Protestant churches, specifically non-denominational and fundie churches use the word Jesus more than any other word. If you ask "Who do you worship?" they will say Jesus.
So yeah I can see how it's easy for someone to think some Christians worship Jesus and not God.
And don't get me started on some Protestants distorted views on Catholics "worshiping" saints. Such ignorance. These are the people who will go all over Facebook asking strangers to please "pray for me!" yet it's so hard for them to wrap their minds around asking a saint to pray for them. Because Bubba has more clout with God than someone who devoted their entire life to him.
Dude, now who's being insulting?
In my mind, I don't ask dead people anything and I don't feel as if I am able to commune with those in heaven aside from God or Jesus. You feel differently. Congratulations.
Whoa sorry I was not referring to anyone here. And I absolutely don't think we should all pray to saints. I don't. I was honestly referencing the fundies* I grew up with who called the Catholic church a cult and insisted they worship saints. It's a very, very common belief among some Protestants, specifically fundies. Google Catholic cult and you'll see lots of nasty stuff by fundies mocking Catholics.
I feel like there is more of a distinction of this in the Episcopal church I attend. They use words like God or Lord much more. The more Protestant churches, specifically non-denominational and fundie churches use the word Jesus more than any other word. If you ask "Who do you worship?" they will say Jesus.
So yeah I can see how it's easy for someone to think some Christians worship Jesus and not God.
And don't get me started on some Protestants distorted views on Catholics "worshiping" saints. Such ignorance. These are the people who will go all over Facebook asking strangers to please "pray for me!" yet it's so hard for them to wrap their minds around asking a saint to pray for them. Because Bubba has more clout with God than someone who devoted their entire life to him.
Dude, now who's being insulting?
In my mind, I don't ask dead people anything and I don't feel as if I am able to commune with those in heaven aside from God or Jesus. You feel differently. Congratulations.
Whoa sorry I was not referring to anyone here. And I absolutely don't think we should all pray to saints. I don't. I was honestly referencing the fundies I grew up with who called the Catholic church a cult and insisted they worship saints. It's a very, very common belief among some Protestants. Google Catholic cult and you'll see lots of nasty stuff by fundies mocking Catholics.
I am Methodist, btw, was raised Baptist so I do know a wee bit about protestants and even some levels of fundie. I'd love to know your definition of very, very common, btw. Your overall tone since you stampeded in here has been pretty preachy, dismissive, and biting so you might want to check yourself.
Okay but what does that have to do with the conversation at hand or the people in it? You flew in here all accusatory lumping all protestants together and then got puffed up and even more indignant when I said, erm no, not all.
The vast majority of Protestants don't view the Catholic church as the devil and it's useless to the conversation to use that as your premise.
I am Methodist, btw, was raised Baptist so I do know a wee bit about protestants and even some levels of fundie. I'd love to know your definition of very, very common, btw. Your overall tone since you stampeded in here has been pretty preachy, dismissive, and biting so you might want to check yourself.
Has it? Well I apologize if that's how I sound because I certainly don't mean to.
My definition of very common would referring to Protestants who aren't Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian. Basically the deeper you get into non-denominational/Fundie the more prevalent the dislike and ignorance of Catholics becomes. Especially in areas like where I lived where there really were no Catholics. I'm often surprised at how many people I'll come across even now who think Catholics worship saints.
Okay but what does that have to do with the conversation at hand or the people in it? You flew in here all accusatory lumping all protestants together and then got puffed up and even more indignant when I said, erm no, not all.
The vast majority of Protestants don't view the Catholic church as the devil and it's useless to the conversation to use that as your premise.
I thought I made the distinction between Protestants and the fundies. They really are their own brand of Christian.
I'm actually not angry or indignant at all. Just sharing my experiences with religion like I thought we all were. Basically I thought the premise of the post was the different beliefs even within Christianity. Even the most basic question like "Who do you worship God or Jesus" will result in different answers depending on the type of church one attends.
I didn't know until recently that mormons or JW were considered Christian. I guess that was my ignorance the same way the people I grew up with did not consider Catholics to be Christian. Not trying to offend anyone, just typing fast at work so I guess it comes out harsher.
It does, actually. I've thought about asking several times actually but never got around to it.
This is what the Catechism says about the Sign of the Cross:
2157 The Christian begins his day, his prayers, and his activities with the Sign of the Cross: "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen." The baptized person dedicates the day to the glory of God and calls on the Savior's grace which lets him act in the Spirit as a child of the Father. The sign of the cross strengthens us in temptations and difficulties.
I am Methodist, btw, was raised Baptist so I do know a wee bit about protestants and even some levels of fundie. I'd love to know your definition of very, very common, btw. Your overall tone since you stampeded in here has been pretty preachy, dismissive, and biting so you might want to check yourself.
Has it? Well I apologize if that's how I sound because I certainly don't mean to.
My definition of very common would referring to Protestants who aren't Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian. Basically the deeper you get into non-denominational/Fundie the more prevalent the dislike and ignorance of Catholics becomes. Especially in areas like where I lived where there really were no Catholics. I'm often surprised at how many people I'll come across even now who think Catholics worship saints.
Then you are talking about Evangelicals and not typically what most people think of when you say Protestants. Maybe that will help.
I've found there's more of an emphasis on Jesus in evangelical churches.
belief in the trinity is a core doctrine of all protestant churches as far as I know and one of the main reasons that many do not believe that Mormons and JWs are Christians.
My Lutheran ILs say "in the name of the father..." In church but only the pastor crosses himself. I always do it automatically. They also don't do it before praying (like before dinner) but I do it out of habit even when I am with them.
Has it? Well I apologize if that's how I sound because I certainly don't mean to.
My definition of very common would referring to Protestants who aren't Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian. Basically the deeper you get into non-denominational/Fundie the more prevalent the dislike and ignorance of Catholics becomes. Especially in areas like where I lived where there really were no Catholics. I'm often surprised at how many people I'll come across even now who think Catholics worship saints.
Then you are talking about Evangelicals and not typically what most people think of when you say Protestants. Maybe that will help.
Post by basilosaurus on Jan 25, 2013 20:21:31 GMT -5
I think I only ever heard "father, son, holy spirit" in sacraments, maybe in a very formal prayer in my presbyterian upbringing. Lord god, together or individual, was the more regular prayer style of address. In an easter or christmas service, they loved to pull out all the other names. Almighty, Wonderful, Prince of Peace, Counselor... all those names. But in some glowing description during the sermon or call to worship or something, not prayer.
I'm wondering if the sign of the cross was dropped at some point because it was seen as superstition. The early reformists were all about dropping symbolism.
On the trinity, I never understood how there was a trinity when I also say Jesus sitteth on the right hand of god the father almighty. He's there, in heaven, sitting on a hand, but he's one and the same? This likely lead to one of the many times my sunday school teachers told my dad I'm better off sitting with him in church than asking questions among the other 9 year olds.
Sydney, to clarify, strictly speaking Protestants would be those movements that arose from the disputes with the Catholic church during the Reformation. That's where the word Protestant came from, those who protested against the practices of the church.
But there are plenty of Christian denominations to spout up long after Martin Luther and the other reformers were long since dead and most of those do not consider themselves protestant at all. Certainly nondenominationalists don't and many Baptists don't consider themselves protestant at all and would be offended to hear anyone say so.
Many consider themselves having descended from the Anabaptists though wiki tells me there is some argument as to whether or not the Anabaptists are protestant.
I've found there's more of an emphasis on Jesus in evangelical churches.
belief in the trinity is a core doctrine of all protestant churches as far as I know and one of the main reasons that many do not believe that Mormons and JWs are Christians.
Post by basilosaurus on Jan 25, 2013 20:39:46 GMT -5
St. Patrick is the magical lephrechaun that brings us green beer (ok, fine, milk with food coloring) and forces us to eat corned beef and cabbage. I think the Irish in my family is stronger than the Scottish of the denomination
St. Patrick is the magical lephrechaun that brings us green beer (ok, fine, milk with food coloring) and forces us to eat corned beef and cabbage. I think the Irish in my family is stronger than the Scottish of the denomination
but but but he's the one who explained the trinity, dammit! The shamrock, yo. THE SHAMROCK!
Sydney, to clarify, strictly speaking Protestants would be those movements that arose from the disputes with the Catholic church during the Reformation. That's where the word Protestant came from, those who protested against the practices of the church.
But there are plenty of Christian denominations to spout up long after Martin Luther and the other reformers were long since dead and most of those do not consider themselves protestant at all. Certainly nondenominationalists don't and many Baptists don't consider themselves protestant at all and would be offended to hear anyone say so.
Many consider themselves having descended from the Anabaptists though wiki tells me there is some argument as to whether or not the Anabaptists are protestant.
I didn't realize Baptists don't consider themselves Protestants.
I thought Protestant referred to someone who was Christian but was not Orthodox, Catholic or Anglican/Episcopal. (Most Episcopals don't consider themselves Protestant either.)
I have such a mish-mosh of religion in my life and I'm realizing that so many beliefs come from not just the denomination, but the church itself. I'll just stick to referring to the nutters I grew up with as fundies. No confusion there.
I went to a Baptist church in NJ from the time I was 7-12ish. Then later in Florida, after I left the fundie church I went to a Baptist church which is the church I was married in. I can't honestly ever remember them saying we were Protestant now that you mention it, however I guess I always thought I was.
I think most of us pray in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit but I have no idea why we don't cross ourselves as a whole. Although I suppose this is where I admit that I do, especially when I'm thinking something prayer like in the car since obviously bowing my head and closing my eyes would be a bad idea. LOL
It's comforting. I wonder if that offends people to do so when you aren't Catholic. IDK.
I doubt they'd even notice, much less be offended.
I remember really noticing it when I was in a wedding and the bride was Lutheran. The usher I was paired with was also Catholic. We both crossed ourselves during the Our Father and ended with "Amen" while they were going on with that "for the power, the hope, the glory,,," or whatever it is that Protestants add at the end. It was a little embarrassing but we probably noticed more than anyone else.
They are the largest and obviously the most successful of the English reformers. I'd be curious where that comes from.
It's weird because as a whole they consider themselves in between. Their roots are no doubt part of the reform so I guess technically they are. But in terms of modern day Protestant, not really. I've read hours on Catholic, Christian and religious forums and the question spawns a lot of different, usually loooong answers. It's like saying, "Is Florida really the south?"
Confession: I never really 'got' the Holy Spirit. (I preferred calling him the Holy Ghost. Old School style) I couldn't imagine how he was in any way an equal part of the Trinity.
They are the largest and obviously the most successful of the English reformers. I'd be curious where that comes from.
It's weird because as a whole they consider themselves in between. Their roots are no doubt part of the reform so I guess technically they are. But in terms of modern day Protestant, not really. I've read hours on Catholic, Christian and religious forums and the question spawns a lot of different, usually loooong answers. It's like saying, "Is Florida really the south?"
Yeah from everything I'm reading the only reason they aren't protestants is because they said so.
It's weird because as a whole they consider themselves in between. Their roots are no doubt part of the reform so I guess technically they are. But in terms of modern day Protestant, not really. I've read hours on Catholic, Christian and religious forums and the question spawns a lot of different, usually loooong answers. It's like saying, "Is Florida really the south?"
Yeah from everything I'm reading the only reason they aren't protestants is because they said so.
I think a lot of Protestants don't consider Episcopals to be a part of them either. Episcopals have bishops and believe in Apostolic Succession. The whole service is so very Catholic-y. Most of the members of our church are former Catholics who left for personal reasons, but wanted a similar service. Most people on the forums end up agreeing that Anglicans belong in their own category. It doesn't really matter but I think that's where a lot of confusion comes from with religion in general. Often how something began and where it is now are two different things.
Confession: I never really 'got' the Holy Spirit. (I preferred calling him the Holy Ghost. Old School style) I couldn't imagine how he was in any way an equal part of the Trinity.
The Baptist church I went to as a child was a very high church with a service very similar to Lutherans and they always said Holy Ghost. The churches I went to in Florida always said spirit. I didn't think about Holy Ghost being more old school, lol. That's funny.