I read this as one of the "distinctions" that the JWs have from other Christians. I've always learned that Christians on the whole don't worship Jesus either. We don't pray to him - we pray to God in Jesus's name.
Do Christians here feel as though they are worshiping Jesus?
I can't help but wonder if "we don't worship Jesus" is code for something else when it is put this way - like, "we don't teach our congregation Jesus's life path or teachings."
Of the handful of WT bulletins I've skimmed through, I remember many of them being OT stories.
I read this as one of the "distinctions" that the JWs have from other Christians. I've always learned that Christians on the whole don't worship Jesus either. We don't pray to him - we pray to God in Jesus's name.
Do Christians here feel as though they are worshiping Jesus?
I can't help but wonder if "we don't worship Jesus" is code for something else when it is put this way - like, "we don't teach our congregation Jesus's life path or teachings."
Of the handful of WT bulletins I've skimmed through, I remember many of them being OT stories.
Trinitarian faiths believe Jesus IS God.
So, yes, in a sense, you do worship him. Because you worship God and God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three in one.
JWs don't believe in the Trinity, they believe Jesus is a divine being inferior to God. They do follow his teachings as described in the bible and recognize him as having sacrificed his life as a ransom for the sins of mankind.
Post by EloiseWeenie on Jan 24, 2013 15:11:39 GMT -5
I pray to Jesus. He is God. Through Jesus, we have access to God the Father. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all one. A popular illustration is 1+1+1=1
JWs don't believe in the Trinity, they believe Jesus is a divine being inferior to God. They do follow his teachings as described in the bible and recognize him as having sacrificed his life as a ransom for the sins of mankind.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
I read this as one of the "distinctions" that the JWs have from other Christians. I've always learned that Christians on the whole don't worship Jesus either. We don't pray to him - we pray to God in Jesus's name.
Do Christians here feel as though they are worshiping Jesus?
I can't help but wonder if "we don't worship Jesus" is code for something else when it is put this way - like, "we don't teach our congregation Jesus's life path or teachings."
Of the handful of WT bulletins I've skimmed through, I remember many of them being OT stories.
Trinitarian faiths believe Jesus IS God.
So, yes, in a sense, you do worship him. Because you worship God and God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three in one.
OK I guess you could say its semantics. I sort of saw it as worshiping Jesus = Jesus as an individual, so in order to "worship Jesus" specifically you are doing it almost as if he is a separate being than God. I mean I think of it as I'm worshiping God so if Jesus is in the God blob then that's cool but I'm not really doing anything more with JC vs. just giving him a shout out every now and then when it comes to my worshiping. I feel like I need a venn diagram .
If I was praying specifically to Jesus or Mary or a saint or whatnot then I could see that as definitively worshiping them.
I'd be curious if there are any Christian denominations who don't believe Jesus is one with God.
As in aren't trinitarian?
Mormons and JWs aren't. So, that begs the question. Is the trinity a defining characteristic of Christianity?
And I've definitely heard Jesus worship at some churches, especially a lot of modern praise music. It comes across as kinda sexual. See my reference to my friend saying that her facebook relationship was "jesus christ is the lover of my soul."
Jesus, lover of my soul was written by one of those Wesley boys back when people liked to talk all fancy and such and it wasn't sexual. I'm pretty sure Charles wasn't trying to get up inside Jesus' bra.
And, you know, I'd hoped this thread wouldn't go the whole "People who pray to Mary or the Saints are worshiping them!" route but, well.
You can explain how they aren't. I'm sorry if I'm offending you. I'm just trying to have a conversation about this and learn like others recently did on here.
Jesus, lover of my soul was written by one of those Wesley boys back when people liked to talk all fancy and such and it wasn't sexual. I'm pretty sure Charles wasn't trying to get up inside Jesus' bra.
and there are a whole lot of other reasons most Christians do not consider Mormonism or JWs to be Christian denominations. Judeo-Christian sects maybe but even that's iffy considering the differences they have with the Bible and how little they use it to form some of their largest principles.
Yes, as ransom. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that when Adam sinned, all of humankind lost out on the prospect of eternal life. Jesus earthly life was paid as a ransom sacrifice in order for mankind to once again have the chance for eternal life. After Armageddon, the earth will return to what it was like in the Garden of Eden and faithful Jehovah's Witnesses will live there for eternity.
That's really interesting. And thanks for not being condescending. I swear I've been to protestant church services my whole life and never have heard the ransom line before.
and there are a whole lot of other reasons most Christians do not consider Mormonism or JWs to be Christian denominations. Judeo-Christian sects maybe but even that's iffy considering the differences they have with the Bible and how little they use it to form some of their largest principles.
I dislike Judeo-Christian. As soon as you add a concept of trinity, the Judeo part drops right off.
Here, O Israel! The Lord is our god, the Lord is ONE.
And, you know, I'd hoped this thread wouldn't go the whole "People who pray to Mary or the Saints are worshiping them!" route but, well.
You can explain how they aren't. I'm sorry if I'm offending you. I'm just trying to have a conversation about this and learn like others recently did on here.
I'm not offended, it's just always the way the conversation goes.
That's essentially a Catholic v. Protestant question.
The Like I'm 5 version is "We don't pray to Mary (or the saints) as gods but as very special people who intercede/appeal/pray to God for us."
Some Anglican flavors also believe in the intercession of saints but it's mainly a Catholic thing.
Post by basilosaurus on Jan 24, 2013 15:39:56 GMT -5
Oh, I know it's not new. I just thought it odd that it was her relationship rather than religion status. And I'm not saying that's the kinda sexual stuff, either. Sorry, my thoughts blended.
There was just something uncomfortable to me in college, my first experience in conservative Christianity, with the way people so glowingly talked about Jesus. You could substitute their first love, and it would sound the same.
And now I've got that "jesus, i worship you" song stuck in my head. Thanks a lot!
You can explain how they aren't. I'm sorry if I'm offending you. I'm just trying to have a conversation about this and learn like others recently did on here.
I'm not offended, it's just always the way the conversation goes.
That's essentially a Catholic v. Protestant question.
The Like I'm 5 version is "We don't pray to Mary (or the saints) as gods but as very special people who intercede/appeal/pray to God for us."
Some Anglican flavors also believe in the intercession of saints but it's mainly a Catholic thing.
Oh right I know they aren't held as gods or anything.
I pray to Jesus. He is God. Through Jesus, we have access to God the Father. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all one. A popular illustration is 1+1+1=1
Maybe this is why we are falling behind in math in this country.
and there are a whole lot of other reasons most Christians do not consider Mormonism or JWs to be Christian denominations. Judeo-Christian sects maybe but even that's iffy considering the differences they have with the Bible and how little they use it to form some of their largest principles.
I dislike Judeo-Christian. As soon as you add a concept of trinity, the Judeo part drops right off.
Here, O Israel! The Lord is our god, the Lord is ONE.
The Judeo part is merely recognizing the roots of Christianity is Judaism.
Okay, thought. If you don't believe in the Trinity, if you actually believe that God and Jesus are actually NOT the same being, wouldn't that make you polytheistic? And therefore not Christian, which is a monotheistic religion (even if it is through wiggle language like three persons in one being)?
Okay, thought. If you don't believe in the Trinity, if you actually believe that God and Jesus are actually NOT the same being, wouldn't that make you polytheistic? And therefore not Christian, which is a monotheistic religion (even if it is through wiggle language like three persons in one being)?
You'd only be polytheistic in that case if you believe Jesus is a god. If you just believe he's the son of a (sole) deity, you'd be monotheistic. Maybe not Christian, though, depending on whether Christianity is contingent on believing Jesus Christ is (a) god.
Okay, thought. If you don't believe in the Trinity, if you actually believe that God and Jesus are actually NOT the same being, wouldn't that make you polytheistic? And therefore not Christian, which is a monotheistic religion (even if it is through wiggle language like three persons in one being)?
I just have to say that your cat gif is so damn cute it stops me dead in my tracks in every thread; I stop and watch her over and over again!
I was raised Catholic with little to no exposure to Protestant sects. I knew they didn't believe in Saints, thought we rated Mary too highly and didn't cross themselves. I always thought they didn't cross themselves because they didn't believe in the holy trinity. I guess I was wrong! Does anyone know the reason that was left behind in the Reformation?
Well, this is interesting conversation. I have always considered myself Christian, but I don't believe Jesus is God. To me God is God and Jesus was his son.
Okay, thought. If you don't believe in the Trinity, if you actually believe that God and Jesus are actually NOT the same being, wouldn't that make you polytheistic? And therefore not Christian, which is a monotheistic religion (even if it is through wiggle language like three persons in one being)?
I just have to say that your cat gif is so damn cute it stops me dead in my tracks in every thread; I stop and watch her over and over again!
I was raised Catholic with little to no exposure to Protestant sects. I knew they didn't believe in Saints, thought we rated Mary too highly and didn't cross themselves. I always thought they didn't cross themselves because they didn't believe in the holy trinity. I guess I was wrong! Does anyone know the reason that was left behind in the Reformation?
I don't know for sure, but I'm going to guess that certain Protestants do not pray the Sign of the Cross because it is not mentioned in the Bible (for those protestants that are Sola Scriptura). However, I'm pretty sure there are some protestants such as the Episcopalians that still pray this prayer ("In the Name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit").
Well, this is interesting conversation. I have always considered myself Christian, but I don't believe Jesus is God. To me God is God and Jesus was his son.
I feel like there is more of a distinction of this in the Episcopal church I attend. They use words like God or Lord much more. The more Protestant churches, specifically non-denominational and fundie churches use the word Jesus more than any other word. If you ask "Who do you worship?" they will say Jesus.
So yeah I can see how it's easy for someone to think some Christians worship Jesus and not God.
And don't get me started on some Protestants distorted views on Catholics "worshiping" saints. Such ignorance. These are the people who will go all over Facebook asking strangers to please "pray for me!" yet it's so hard for them to wrap their minds around asking a saint to pray for them. Because Bubba has more clout with God than someone who devoted their entire life to him. ^o)
I think most of us pray in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit but I have no idea why we don't cross ourselves as a whole. Although I suppose this is where I admit that I do, especially when I'm thinking something prayer like in the car since obviously bowing my head and closing my eyes would be a bad idea. LOL
It's comforting. I wonder if that offends people to do so when you aren't Catholic. IDK.
Well, this is interesting conversation. I have always considered myself Christian, but I don't believe Jesus is God. To me God is God and Jesus was his son.
I feel like there is more of a distinction of this in the Episcopal church I attend. They use words like God or Lord much more. The more Protestant churches, specifically non-denominational and fundie churches use the word Jesus more than any other word. If you ask "Who do you worship?" they will say Jesus.
So yeah I can see how it's easy for someone to think some Christians worship Jesus and not God.
And don't get me started on some Protestants distorted views on Catholics "worshiping" saints. Such ignorance. These are the people who will go all over Facebook asking strangers to please "pray for me!" yet it's so hard for them to wrap their minds around asking a saint to pray for them. Because Bubba has more clout with God than someone who devoted their entire life to him.
Dude, now who's being insulting?
In my mind, I don't ask dead people anything and I don't feel as if I am able to commune with those in heaven aside from God or Jesus. You feel differently. Congratulations.