Post by daydreamer on Jan 29, 2013 15:49:35 GMT -5
I'm sorry you're having this problem.
I have no experience with dogs, but a coworker of ours did successfully privately rehome a dog that was scared and jealous of a toddler and had started to become aggressive. The dog was much happier in its new home. I realize that your dog is likely more aggressive, but there really might be another home for him.
I agree with everything fivedogs said. I am also on the board of a no-kill pet rescue and our organization would not take a dog with a known bite history, it's too big of a risk to our foster families, let alone an eventual adoptive family.
Work with a new behaviorist. I commend you for trying this once already, but it sounds like the person you worked with wasn't the best. Try again. The situation isn't beyond hope yet.
Rehoming the dog is not a good idea. It's just pushing the problem onto someone else. If you get to the point where you have exhausted all options with your vet and a behaviorist and decide its not safe for the dog to live with your family, it's not fair to pass on that dog to another family. If you take a dog like this to a shelter and disclose the bite history, it will be euthanized. If you get to that point, euthanize the dog yourself rather than taking the dog to a shelter where it will be scared and alone. But, like I already said, you are not at this point yet and you have some options to try first.
Good luck, and sorry you are having to deal with this.
IMO, holding a dog's mouth shut and looking him in the eye is a terrible eye. For a dog that is already quite aggressive, looking them straight in the eye is pretty much a great way for them to bite you again.
OP, I am very sorry you are dealing with this. I think the first step is to a) get it into your head that YES, the dog does deserve to live and then b) talk to your vet about anxiety meds and a rec for a behaviorist.
I would also try to find a way to separate the dog from your children, because the dog can't be trusted at this point. If that means you need a pen in the house (like a wire/gated off area) then maybe that is something to investigate.
I see what you mean. The dog may respond negatively a few times but honestly you have to be the Alpha in your home as Susie mentioned. Now, I've only read a book on training and it went great with my dog. I have no real training or true knowledge of training dogs.
I am not trying to be mean or pick on winnied here, but her recommendation is really quite dangerous and won't help a dog that is fearful or anxious. Being an "alpha" is not what a fearful or anxious dog needs. It does need a leader, but not one that leads by fear and intimidation, which is what happens when you put your hand over a dog's mouth and stare at it in the eyes.
I would suggest reading a book on aggressive dogs and positive reinforcement. Clicker training can work really well with aggressive dogs. The dog needs to build confidence, which positive reinforcement can do.
From an outside perspective, I do agree that it sounds like your dog doesn't have a warning system. Normally dogs will growl before they bite, which is why you should never scold a dog for growling. I wonder if this dog was hit or scolded for growling as a puppy (before you got it), which is why it just bites now without warning.
I am not trying to be mean or pick on winnied here, but her recommendation is really quite dangerous and won't help a dog that is fearful or anxious. Being an "alpha" is not what a fearful or anxious dog needs. It does need a leader, but not one that leads by fear and intimidation, which is what happens when you put your hand over a dog's mouth and stare at it in the eyes.
I would suggest reading a book on aggressive dogs and positive reinforcement. Clicker training can work really well with aggressive dogs. The dog needs to build confidence, which positive reinforcement can do.
From an outside perspective, I do agree that it sounds like your dog doesn't have a warning system. Normally dogs will growl before they bite, which is why you should never scold a dog for growling. I wonder if this dog was hit or scolded for growling as a puppy (before you got it), which is why it just bites now without warning.
I recognize you're not picking on me but I want to be clear to anyone reading that I am not aggressive, abusive (you didn't say that, I know), or "raising" my dog via intimidation or fear. My dog does not fear my H or I at all. Being an Alpha is not about treating the pack like shit or being unkind, and I want to be clear about that. While you and I may disagree on if a dog needs a leader/Alpha I wanted to be clear about how I treat my dog.
FWIW, H and I trained our aggressive dog via the Paul Owens methods. This method focuses heavily on positive reinforcement. The discipline we used may not work with every aggressive dog but it worked with ours and we used it because with a few issues there was zero success with positive reinforcement. Maybe my dog is a special snowflake considering discipline worked in special circumstances and he kept at a rescue and adopted out with a biting history.
Like children, there's no one perfect way to raise a dog.
Good luck. I just wanna add this. I was bit on the face by a dog at a stranger's house. (i.e. new area we'd just moved to. I liked dogs, leaned over in the dog's face = bite through my lip.)
I'm literally scarred for life, but really, eh, it's a little line on my lip and I still love dogs.
I know it's not a fun decision, and my mother wishes that that family had put down their dog, because in addition to me, it bit two other kids. But in the long run, I'm okay. A bite from that little dog would probably not kill anyone. (So don't worry too much about the nip your son got. Don't guilt yourself over it.)
Try the play pen for the dog. Make sure she gets her cuddles. And let her be away from the kids. Even my wonderful-with-kids dog had a year where she would not be in the kitchen with them at dinner time. She always sat outside the back door/dog door and would just watch us and whine because she wanted to be with us AND THE FOOD, but the kids were too fast and too loud for her. Once my older child got out of the toddler years, the dog decided to come back in with us. Kids are hard on dogs and dogs are not allowed to retaliate at all. Even a bark gets them in trouble.
While this is true, that little dog could easily get to the kids' eyes and/or hurt a baby more seriously. Don't minimize a bite because it is a small dog.
I love dogs dearly. See my PP's regarding shelling out hundreds of dollars/month for doggy day care and buying a small place in a major city so I can make the yard dog-friendly (vs. concrete). I will do anything to make her happy.
However, I have lived with two aggressive pets, and I know what it's like to be in near-constant fear in your own home. I can't imagine how I'd feel if my dog attacked my human child. Frankly, I'm shocked that so many people are minimizing that.
I'd prioritize my human family's well-being over the dog's from now on. I'd put her on anti-anxiety meds without regard for her liver issues. I'd gate her off liberally, whenever needed. And after all that, if it were still a major issue, I'd euthanize her. If the dog were younger I'd consider a dog behaviorist, but a 10 year old dog who attacks if you walk too close to her is just so far out there, I don't think you're going to get a significant transformation. I'd accommodate the dog's right to live while prioritizing your family's need for safety for as long as possible, but I wouldn't value the dog's life over my child's safety.
First of all, I am so very sorry you are having to deal with this. I had a similar situation a few years ago: I adopted a young adult dog from a rescue group when I was in college. She was an extremely affectionate, loving dog whom I took everywhere. She always did great with people; although occasionally other dogs and small children freaked her out - she would just get nervous and try to get away, was never aggressive. Fast forward a few years and I moved in with my now DH and his dog. There was one small altercation which happened in front of us when his dog bit mine out of fear and my dog reacted, but otherwise they coexisted fairly peacefully. Fast forward another few years, and I began having a lot of trouble with my dog. She attacked two of her housemates and started snapping at my DH. I tried anxiety medication and worked with my veterinarian and a behaviorist with no change or improvement. One of her attacks nearly killed DH's dog.
I hate to say it and I'm ready to be flamed for it, but I eventually had to weigh the value of my dog's life over the lives of my other pets, my husband, and my future children. I really debated trying to rehome her, but what kept me from doing so was the responsibility I would feel if she hurt someone else or how she might be treated if she did. I felt like there were too many unknowns and too many worse outcomes, so I eventually decided to euthanize her. It was the hardest choice I've ever made, and while part of me still questions it, the other part of me knew that it was the best thing for everyone including her. She was loved and well taken care of the six years I had her, and she was surrounded by the people she loved and in my arms at the very end. I cannot express the sadness I still feel two years later, but I do still feel like it was the best I could do.
I sincerely hope you're not faced with the same decision. I wish you luck!
I can't believe how many people are saying you should re-home the dog. If this is how the dog behaves in the comfort of its home, imagine how it will act in a new scary environment.
The dog is 10 years old. You have given it 10 long wonderful years. Don't feel guilty if this is the end of the road. Think about your future with this dog. You will probably spend thousands of dollars on medicine and training to get it manageable, but you will never be comfortable with the dog in your home. You will never trust it again.
I do agree with getting another behaviorists opinion. If they don't have some miraculous cure, my advice would be to put the dog down especially given its health issues.
Im sorry you have to make this decision, how hard. Good luck!'
I love dogs dearly. See my PP's regarding shelling out hundreds of dollars/month for doggy day care and buying a small place in a major city so I can make the yard dog-friendly (vs. concrete). I will do anything to make her happy.
However, I have lived with two aggressive pets, and I know what it's like to be in near-constant fear in your own home. I can't imagine how I'd feel if my dog attacked my human child. Frankly, I'm shocked that so many people are minimizing that.
I'd prioritize my human family's well-being over the dog's from now on. I'd put her on anti-anxiety meds without regard for her liver issues. I'd gate her off liberally, whenever needed. And after all that, if it were still a major issue, I'd euthanize her. If the dog were younger I'd consider a dog behaviorist, but a 10 year old dog who attacks if you walk too close to her is just so far out there, I don't think you're going to get a significant transformation. I'd accommodate the dog's right to live while prioritizing your family's need for safety for as long as possible, but I wouldn't value the dog's life over my child's safety.
I agree that she needs to keep her family safe (and that she has a lot of options that she hasn't tried yet), but the dog's age is probably irrelevant except that she has the additional health issues. There's no real basis for an old dog not being able to learn new tricks, especially when the issues probably stem from a neurochemical issue and not from just bad habits. Additionally, a small dog like that can live for 6 or more additional years.
I understand that old dogs can learn new tricks. I got my dog when she was 3, and she is a different dog as a result of intense training. But this behavior has been reinforced by making her dog's anxiety go down and making the person stop doing what they are doing for 10 years. That is a long time. I'm speaking from a learned behavior standpoint.
Post by dragonfly08 on Jan 29, 2013 19:51:03 GMT -5
When DD #1 was born, I had a Sheltie that was 12 years old and my baby. Very gentle. But he simply could not adapt to having an active, inquisitive toddler around. He wanted to sleep right next to me and got upset when DD woke him up, tried to touch him, etc. We tried for a while but simply couldn't get them to co-exist and I was afraid that one day he would bite her (he tried on several occasions). The only solution was to separate them. That wasn't fair to either...obviously the baby needed to be with me, but the poor dog was miserable if I gated him in another room. The best way to keep them apart was to rehome him. We had an amazing local rescue group that picked him up right away, got him a wonderful foster home, then found him a permanent home that was child free with a large, fenced yard. They kept me up to date for the first month or two and said he was doing wonderfully.
I would *never* have put him down, or sent him to a shelter (even a no-kill one). But the rescue group was so great. They have strict rules and wonderful people, and in the end it was the best scenario for all involved.
Sorry you're dealing with this OP. It sounds like a really tough situation and I think you're handling it admirably. We have beagles, so I understand how much damage a small dog can do.
One of our dogs is pretty food aggressive. In addition to the things you've already started to do, I'd probably keep all of her things in one area where your son isn't allowed to go. That would include her bed, food and water bowls, toys, etc. And, as you mentioned, definitely keep her out of the kitchen. We've had similar issues with food related incidents around the kitchen and feeding areas. Make sure to show her some one on one affection regularly, but I'm not sure I'd let your son near her. Too many things can go wrong when dealing with an unpredictable dog and young child.
Good luck! And, honestly, if it really comes down to, I would put the dog down. I can imagine that I would be in absolute shambles having to do that to one of ours, but your son comes first, always.
Mostly by yelling at her that she is a bad dog and demanding that she leave the area. We also have a squirt gun (evolved from the spray bottle) that is sometimes used.
I think you should really try to work with a behaviorist. Yelling at a dog while they are anxious and being aggressive is the opposite way you should handle this situation.
Can you work on crate training more? I know you said the dog barked for a long time but could you get in the routine of establishing the crate as a 'safe' place (not a place of punishment when someone comes over) and put her in there for a few hours every day? I'm also trying to picture a floor plan where there is no way of separating the dog except in 1 room. Can you get some sort of baby gate?
Ditto basically everything fivedogs said. I think you need to listen to your gut. Until you've had a dog that is basically a ticking time bomb, sure, the idea of putting your dog down for resource aggression seems cruel. But a rescue won't take her, it's too much of a liability to rehome her (very bad idea!), and living out her life in a shelter (if you can find a no kill one that will take her, others will just euthanize) is even more cruel. When you run out of options, euthanizing is the most humane. I have a similar dog, except he has a much better warning system, mostly growls and will give warning nips, and luckily has very dull teeth.
The whole alpha/fear based training dog thing is so outdated. Look into NILIF - its a wonderful way to cohabit with a dog and help her understand her role in the household. If anyone you consult mentions the dog whisperer/Cesar millan, run in the other direction. Ditto the vet behaviorist. Try meds, separating, etc. never let the dog in between you and your children, and if none of that helps, you will know the right thing to do. Best of luck. I know how you feel and I understand.
Post by RoxMonster on Jan 29, 2013 21:36:20 GMT -5
OP, I'm sorry you and your family are dealing with this. We just adopted a shelter dog who has anxiety issues (has not bitten anyone) but is not good around strangers. Will bark at them for forever, especially those coming in/near our home and has gotten to the point where we were worried she might snap/bite if we didn't remove her (we luckily had the option of removing her).
We are working with a behaviorist and it has been very helpful so far. She has given us some awesome things to try. I would try a different behaviorist first before looking into rehoming her or putting her down. While I understand not being able to have a dog around your children (or you) that bites, looking at the instances where she has bitten, it isn't surprising. Being woken while sleeping, being protective of food, etc. are very common reasons for dogs to snap or bite.
Our behaviorist directed us to the ASPCA website for additional resources. They have many great articles on everything from food aggression, biting, fear of people, etc. that, while it may not be an end-all, be-all, can be informative and maybe shed some light on the situation immediately, plus give you some ideas of what to try. Every article about biting and what not always suggests working with a certified behaviorist as well, but at least it is a starting point. I hope it all works out for you, your family, and the dog.
Post by suburbanzookeeper on Jan 29, 2013 22:42:29 GMT -5
Our rescue will only accept bite situations when we originally placed the dog in that home... for liability, we cannot willingly take in dogs with a known bite history, we don't have the resources for it. While there were several PP who said they would take a dog like that, the reality is those dogs usually stay with a no-kill rescue for an extremely long time (in a kennel or foster home) before - if - a placement if ever made. I think a lot of people throw out "a rescue can take the dog!" as the fail-safe warm fuzzy option, but it sometimes isn't always the best one for all involved, especially when this is a senior.
Other PPs have had great advice. A playpen where she has access to her crate, food, water, and toys without being underfoot is a great option in the meantime. I would look at another behaviorist (not a class). Your vet should be talked to about what's going on and the options of going to anti-anxiety meds instead of liver supplements... especially if you do exhaust all of your options, you are going to want your vet to understand why/how you arrived at that decision as most will not just merely euthanize.
First thing I would do is get a new behaviorist. "Warning gene?". That's a bunch of bull if I ever heard any. I would also read up on dog body language. I highy doubt there are no signs. There might be very subtle signs that you don't realize are warning signs. Whale eyes, tension in the face, the way a tail is wagging...all are glaring warning signs.
I would also revisit crate training. My dogs only get food and treats in their crates, so they actually run in when they think they might get a treat. Since you have the pen now, just put the crate in there and throw her favorite treats in there and let her explore on her own. Once she's more comfortable with it, then start only giving treats and and food in the crate.
The whole alpha/fear based training dog thing is so outdated. Look into NILIF - its a wonderful way to cohabit with a dog and help her understand her role in the household. If anyone you consult mentions the dog whisperer/Cesar millan, run in the other direction. Ditto the vet behaviorist. Try meds, separating, etc. never let the dog in between you and your children, and if none of that helps, you will know the right thing to do. Best of luck. I know how you feel and I understand.
The understanding of an alpha dog is NOT under any interpretation the same as fear based training. The outdated theory was that every pack has a single ubiquitous alpha dog. The newer, more accurate understanding is that each pack has situational leaders. Depending on the situation, a different dog can be the leader/alpha. The question is who is the leader. This is in no way the same as fear based training. You do not need to strike fear into your dog in order to establish that you are the leader. Currently OP's dog is the leader in the house. It can snap and bite and not see that it's wrong.
Training a dog is about making the right choice more appealing than the wrong choice. One (bad) way is to make the wrong way so terrifying that they fear your wrath. This is fear based training and is generally bad because -- beyond morality -- the dog tends to fight back. The other extreme is to always make the right choice so appealing that they never chose wrong. This is the basis of NILIF. You make everything a choice and reward them for the right one. It works in 99% of situations. The problem is when you can't make the right choice more appealing. For example, when your dog is picking up food from the floor, there is no treat, no praise, no reward to steer her away from food. Her instincts are so strong, she NEEDS that food. Your only option is to discipline is a moral, proportionate manner. To establish that you are the leader, and she should follow you.
To argue that this doesn't work is unfounded. As I'm writing this, our dog is cuddling with and kissing H -- the same H who holds his snout shut and tells him No! when he barks. Our dog has gone from feisty and temperamental (he actually bit H's hand a few times) to respectful, loving, and friendly.
I'd rehome the dog. I wouldn't be able to live with the guilt if my child was injured by a dog that I was on notice had a problem.
If you decide to keep the dog, I would keep the child and dog separated as much as possible. I know a family that chose this route, and fortunately, the mom was able to take the dog to work with her during the day so it wasn't at home with the child. It seemed like a LOT of work.
Rehoming the dog isn't a good idea. The dog bites adults too.
I would definitely talk to your vet. Some meds can help high anxiety dogs.
This thread solidified my choice to remain pet free. (I grew up with dogs but have never had my own)
I'd get rid of the dog, but I guess I'm in the minority. I'd rather be seen as a pet hater than have my kid attacked. The dog is 10. How much is he really going to change?
This is a really tough situation, but I will ditto pretty much what Fivedogs and Huskymom have said.
FWIW, our female dog is very dog aggressive at first. She was beaten before we rescued her and she never recovered. We went into the pregnancy and idea of having kids with our eyes very open to all possibilities. Thankfully for us she is really protective of DD and wouldn't think of hurting her. If we had gone through as much as you have (and we did, plus a couple more behaviorists, etc) we would have been fine rehoming her.
The other extreme is to always make the right choice so appealing that they never chose wrong. This is the basis of NILIF. You make everything a choice and reward them for the right one. It works in 99% of situations. The problem is when you can't make the right choice more appealing. For example, when your dog is picking up food from the floor, there is no treat, no praise, no reward to steer her away from food. Her instincts are so strong, she NEEDS that food.
I wish I had a copy of a siggy pic from the nest pets board. It was a regular's dog n a down-stay with about 30 pieces of food on his front paws/legs and his nose. The right choice (to continue in the down-stay and not eat the food) was more appealing than the other choice (to eat the food literally on and under his nose). We did this to a more limited extent with one of our dogs who was a fearful resource guarder from the other dogs. We would put a lower value treat (cheese or something) in front of him and practice leave it, and then he would get the higher value treat (steak, etc.). He would refrain from picking the food up off the floor because he knew a higher value treat was possible (eventually we didn't need to give him the higher value treat every time, etc.). This eventually made him more confident that he didn't need to overreact and guard his food from inside his crate from the other dogs because he learned that not reacting resulted in a higher value reward.
Also see ojo's description of her dogs ignoring the food thrown by her kids, or anyone else who puts their dog in a stay before they get fed. Under normal situations (without issues with anxiety/fear/aggression/reactivity), I can't think of a situation in which there is no reward that is appealing enough to eliminate an unwanted behavior with consistent training.
A moral proportionate response is a human construct - it's not something dogs can understand. They only know that certain behaviors by humans induce fear and anxiety. And for some dogs at some times (perhaps yours right now), a human grabbing their muzzle is not going to trigger the same amount of fear/anxiety as with other dogs, so maybe it can be an effective deterrent at that point in time without triggering a fear aggressive response. But I want (as does our behaviorist/vet behaviorist) my dogs to be okay with other humans (including my DD) sometimes accidentally/inadvertently touching their muzzles/hugging them/pushing them/etc. - these are all stressful/anxiety-inducing interactions, but if I can desensitize the dogs enough to ignore them occasionally, it's safer for all involved.
Finally, for a dog like OP's who is extremely reactive to human touch/proximity, it's a terrible idea to use physical contact as discipline/punishment. In addition to medication (probably) to lower her overall stress levels, her dog needs to be desensitized and reconditioned to not be fearful (and therefore not react by biting) when a human is near her/touches her. Even what you may consider a mild correction would probably send this dog's anxiety through the roof. So if your method is currently working for you, obviously that's fine for your house. But OP needs professional help from experts in animal behavior and medicine/anxiety, which is not likely to include any alpha/dominance/aversive techniques since that is not supported by the current literature. Even if she does nothing except separate dog/kid until she can get that help, it will be better than potentially triggering her dog to bite again or increasing its anxiety even more.
OP, if you are still reading this, if you start to work with a new behaviorist (http://www.animalbehavior.org/ABSAppliedBehavior/caab-directory) in addition to using medication, talk to them in advance about their methods and how they incorporate desensitization and operant conditioning into their strategy for situations like yours. But a vet behaviorist would also give you better recommendations than the person you were using before.
Some more information from veterinary/animal behaviorists:
Yes, I am still reading. I have been reading everyone's responses. Again, thank you to everyone for taking the time to respond, and thank you for the support. There is a lot of good advice here and lots to think about.
We are already doing many of the things mentioned. For instance, the NILIF is something that we started with the behaviorist. We could definitely be more strict with it, I am sure. Re: feeding - we do leave her bowl down all the time (partly due to my laziness), but she only eats it when we top it off with frozen veggies at meal times. I don't put the veggies in until I've already served dinner to DS/myself. I can easily modify this and pick the bowl up between meals. Her food bowl isn't even the main problem - she will back away from it if I tell her to. I usually grab her water to refill and she doesn't have a problem. The problem is more with unexpected treats (crumbs, stuff falling from table) or something like a bone-type treat.
She is also really good with leaving treats if it is a game. We do "tricks" nearly every night. Your example of the dog with the treats on his paws is similar. She will sit still for as long as I require with a pile of treats in front of her face until I tell her to get them because she knows it is part of the game. I don't even need to tempt her with a higher-value treat because she understands the game. She is pretty smart. The problem is differentiating between the game and a non-game situation. For example, there is no higher treat possible (to her) than a piece of bread that fell from the table. She knows she is not supposed to have it, and I am not going to eventually give it to her, and this results in a mad dash to grab it and protect it. I think this is where the play pen will be successful. I am not sure how else to train for the non-game situations since she has mastered the game situations. I also guess this is where a behaviorist will come in and perhaps the meds.
I swear my dog understands English. DH and I were discussing everything that people had said in this post last night. This morning, the dog was a model of perfect behavior. She didn't even bark when I left for work, which is a first.
I know many people are saying that we should get rid of the dog. DH seems to be leaning towards this viewpoint. He dislikes the dog (which I don't blame him for considering the number of times he's been bitten by her). He thinks that she is a ticking time bomb as well. He said last night that our toddler "doesn't deserve to be bitten" Of course I agree with that; I don't ever want my kid(s) to get hurt. He wouldn't force a decision on me at this point, however. I think I want to see if the meds will make a difference first, and I will focus on 100% separation at this point. I will also talk to the vet about her behavior and a new recommendation for a behaviorist. I will have to be super vigilant.
I think it is imperative that the dog is not in the same room with you (or in a pen so he cant get under the table) when you guys are eating dinner. Good luck.
I don't think this is a question of deserving to live. It sounds like you've done a lot for her so far, but I would try the anxiety meds before taking any extreme measures. Does your vet have an opinion on the anxiety issues? I might also check with one additional behaviorist if you can. I'd do whatever you can to make sure your dog and your kid are never alone together in the meantime. Easier said than done?
I don't know, it's hard - I'm not a parent (yet), but I totally understand keeping your kids safe first. On the other hand, I'm a complete nut for my dogs. I can't imagine giving them up. Is there a pom rescue that might work with you if it comes to that?
Good luck, you have a tough situation.
I am making my way through all of the responses so I haven't read everything yet but I wanted to add that after everything else failed, this is what worked for us. We tried a behaviorist, spent thousands on training classes and even tried crate training (our dog was a neglected/abused rescue and something terrible must have happened with crate training because he was scared of it). I wrote this same exact post on the Pets board after I had DS but as an AE because I was scared that board would tear me apart. They were very understanding and suggested I go to the vet and check for anxiety. The vet diagnosed him with anxiety and placed him on meds. He does snap sometimes (very rarely these days) but never towards any of us and never anything that makes me nervous. The meds were amazing.
I felt like there were too many unknowns and too many worse outcomes, so I eventually decided to euthanize her. It was the hardest choice I've ever made, and while part of me still questions it, the other part of me knew that it was the best thing for everyone including her. She was loved and well taken care of the six years I had her, and she was surrounded by the people she loved and in my arms at the very end. I cannot express the sadness I still feel two years later, but I do still feel like it was the best I could do.
I sincerely hope you're not faced with the same decision. I wish you luck!
I do think that some dogs just can't defeat their demons, even with all the medication/behavioral help we can give them. You did the right thing by letting her go in your arms and surrounded by familiar people. I know it must have been a gut-wrenching decision. I'm really sorry for your loss.