HOA Fees---School me on these

[kwynn]

Looking at townhouses, I start to get worried about the HOA fees. I'm currently a renter, but my current apartment, the HOA covers all outside maintenance plus water and cable.

The places I'm looking, it covers *only* snow removal, grass cutting, and outside lighting. It's $115 a month, some communities it was $220 a month.

I am just surprised by this since that seems high to me for the services.

It's just an expense I'd like to avoid if it doesn't include any utilities.

From a MM standpoint, is it better to avoid a community with HOA fees? Or at least higher HOA fees?

What amount of HOA fees were you personally comfortable with?

[SallyJ]

When we were in CA looking to buy, HOA fees were outrageous at $175 and well over $300 and didn't cover anything but what you describe. It turned us off of looking to buy.

It was a consideration for us in purchasing a home when we moved to CO. We pay $71/month and that includes snow removal, neighborhood lawn/gardening (including parks and open areas), access to the outdoor pool in the summer, subsidized rec center costs ($700/yr for 2 adults + 2 kids and unlimited child care, also has indoor pool), and trash service.

[sillygoosegirl]

Normally for a townhouse or condo, the HOA fee also covers external maintenance (painting, new roof when needed, building wide plumbing issues, etc), so $200 may not be as bad as you think. I'd look into what it covers, and if you are serious about a property, I'd want to know how much the HOA has saved up for big maintenance items. A good association may have quite a lot of money in the bank so that they can pay cash for a new roof, rather than needing to charge you a special assessment when major repairs are needed.

Personally, I couldn't really stomach the idea of the neighborhood association being able to tell me what kind of car I can park in my driveway, who I can rent a room in my house to, or what kind of pets I can have, so I chose to avoid communities with HOAs.

[smiley]

The one neighborhood we looked at that had an HOA of about $150 a month. This fee covered the amenities like the community center / pool etc. It did not cover the lawn care for your own house.
This neighborhood also has a CDD fee that was about 1k a year.

After we bought our home in 2005 we learned that a number of houses in that community had Chinese Drywall and the families had to find other places to live because of the toxicity. The neighborhood is booming again but after learning about all of the fees I would not move into a gated neighborhood like that.

[mollybrown]

HOAs are just a fact if you want to live some places. You really have to look at what it covers to determine if you should run. My fees are around $50 a month, and cover nothing but maintenance of community areas and activities. I rarely use the pools so I'd love to opt out, but I like where I live. And I do like living someplace with nicely landscaped parks and common areas. Mine isn't particularly restrictive about house colors, decorations, and that type of thing. They basically collect our money and lay low

You should be able to ask for the by laws to get a feel for if you'll be living in Stepford, or if the HOA just ensures a minimum standard for the community.

ETA:  From a MM perspective, it just depends on what is covered.  If the exterior of the building, snow removal/grass maintenance, trash, and pools are covered, I'd be willing to pay a lot more than for a place that just charges a fee for the right to live there.

[ReenaP]

We live in a townhouse, and only looked at new construction townhouses during our search. In our city, every single subdivision we visited had a required HOA fee. We saw some places that charged as much as $275/mo, with no special amenities.

We pay $140 a month, which is on the low end for our city (this covers landscaping, outdoor maintenance, and pool). As a comparison, our subdivision also has single family homes, and their monthly fee is $220 (because the landscaping is more expensive).

[drloretta]

We were comfortable with higher ones if we got a lot of bang for the buck. I had high-ish ones at my very first home purchase (a little condo), but they did all exterior maintenance to the units and the whole campus, as well as snow removal (I was in CO) and trash I believe. We had fees at our last house, and the covered snow removal for all roads in our community, security patrols, a clubhouse, gazebo, pool, and playground, and maintenance of our mail pods among other things. Totally worth it IMO.

I'd look to see what was covered and how well the $ was managed before committing.

[Deleted]

My condo in college the HOA money covered all water, trash, exterior maintenance/landscaping and insurance for everything outside the studs of the units. Meaning when the roof leaked and ruined my bathroom and kitchen floor, they paid for it. :-)

[Deleted]

I hate having an HOA.

Ours is $280 a month. It covers snow removal, landscaping, trees, maintenance of outside facilities, painting the units, roof repair and maintenance. They spend a TON of money on landscaping, its pretty obscene.  Oh yes, they insure the outside of our house, but NOT the water pipes that are outside (separate insurance we have to pay).  It does lower our homeowners insurance, I suppose.  

It does NOT cover trash, sewer, water, electric, anything inside my house, etc etc.

We dont have a pool, gazebo, clubhouse. quite frankly our fees are ridiculous, and increase every year, in light of knowing they have $1million sitting in the bank (DH was treasurer). Pisses me off and we can't wait to move. (yes I know this means they are solvent and have money in case of a lawsuit, yadda yadda).

[liveintheville]

That doesn't sound too bad to me for snow removal, electric, and landscaping.

We have a management company which costs more. And an elevator and cleaning service. Snow removal alone is budgeted for 10k.

[ladygirl]

Jan 29, 2013 17:24:22 GMT -5 @vanndelay said:

My condo in college the HOA money covered all water, trash, exterior maintenance/landscaping and insurance for everything outside the studs of the units. Meaning when the roof leaked and ruined my bathroom and kitchen floor, they paid for it. :-)

I was going to mention- the HOA usually covers the insurance on the exterior of the unit, so if you purchase a condo or townhome you would just need to purchase insurance on the contents, which is a lot cheaper than a policy on the whole home, which can be really $$$ depending where you live.

[Muddled]

Condo/coop fees are exactly why we haven't bought anything around here (and likely won't). They are $800+ and can be upped at any time. It's really disheartening.

[hski2349]

If you are serious about purchasing a property with an HOA, make sure to ask for 5 years of financials. I say 5 because then you can get a real idea about there operating expenses, projects, etc. I was on an HOA board, and the expenses would vary some from year to year, because of projects or other expenses. I would also make sure to ask if they have had in big projects in the past few year and if they have any planned in the next few years. And ask about their reserves. That will give you an idea if fees will increase or stay the same.

I understand the the reasoning behind HOAs, but they can also be extremely annoying too.

[Deleted]

Jan 29, 2013 17:37:52 GMT -5 @iheartcosmos said:

I hate having an HOA.

Ours is $280 a month. It covers snow removal, landscaping, trees, maintenance of outside facilities, painting the units, roof repair and maintenance. They spend a TON of money on landscaping, its pretty obscene.  Oh yes, they insure the outside of our house, but NOT the water pipes that are outside (separate insurance we have to pay).  It does lower our homeowners insurance, I suppose.  

It does NOT cover trash, sewer, water, electric, anything inside my house, etc etc.

We dont have a pool, gazebo, clubhouse. quite frankly our fees are ridiculous, and increase every year, in light of knowing they have $1million sitting in the bank (DH was treasurer). Pisses me off and we can't wait to move. (yes I know this means they are solvent and have money in case of a lawsuit, yadda yadda).

Crap, that is high!  Small development?  We have 250 units and a pool/clubhouse with a small fitness center/playground.  Our HOA covers all exterior maintenance, landscaping, exterior insurance, and snow removal.  We pay $231/month.  My parents live in a larger development and pay around $275/month - theirs includes trash and they also have tennis courts.

[ohbirdie]

We pay about $300/month for our fees. I think it is worth it for snow removal and lawn care. We also have a club house and pool. I appreciate them when our roof needed fixed, our sidewalk replaced, and exterminator called. We didn't pay for any of that which would have been really expensive.

[rubytue]

Jan 29, 2013 17:12:58 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

Normally for a townhouse or condo, the HOA fee also covers external maintenance (painting, new roof when needed, building wide plumbing issues, etc), so $200 may not be as bad as you think. I'd look into what it covers, and if you are serious about a property, I'd want to know how much the HOA has saved up for big maintenance items. A good association may have quite a lot of money in the bank so that they can pay cash for a new roof, rather than needing to charge you a special assessment when major repairs are needed.

Townhouse =/= condo.  A condo is going to have condo fees, which cover things like exterior maintenance and your roof.  But not all townhouses are condos.  Perhaps in your area they are, but in mine townhouses are usually fee simple, which means you own (and pay for) your land, your exterior walls, your roof, your fence, etc. 

The two townhouses I've owned had fees of $40/month and $46/month.  That covers roads (snow and paving), street lighting, storm water runoff control, community docks, and community landscaping.  The $40/month one included trash (and didn't have docks), but the current one has county trash service.   There are other amenities, but they are fee for service (i.e. only boat owners pay for the boat yard and marina). 

I looked at some condos that had fees more like $200/month.  The townhouse-style condos included exterior maintenance, and the apartment-style (flats) usually had a utility or two included.

[kaylie]

There are very high end townhomes near us that have $500/month HOA fees. It's pretty extreme. $200 is about average but some SFH developments are $40 a month. We ended up in a neighborhood with no HOA and I'm really happy with it. No one takes advantage of the lack of HOA - all homes are well taken care of - and it's nice not to have the extra (non tax-deductible) fee.

We did consider places with fees, but we probably wouldn't have gone over $40 a month unless it meant we didn't have to do our own lawn maintenance. The yard is a huge time suck every month.

[Deleted]

Jan 29, 2013 19:43:16 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Jan 29, 2013 17:12:58 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

Normally for a townhouse or condo, the HOA fee also covers external maintenance (painting, new roof when needed, building wide plumbing issues, etc), so $200 may not be as bad as you think. I'd look into what it covers, and if you are serious about a property, I'd want to know how much the HOA has saved up for big maintenance items. A good association may have quite a lot of money in the bank so that they can pay cash for a new roof, rather than needing to charge you a special assessment when major repairs are needed.

Townhouse =/= condo.  A condo is going to have condo fees, which cover things like exterior maintenance and your roof.  But not all townhouses are condos.  Perhaps in your area they are, but in mine townhouses are usually fee simple, which means you own (and pay for) your land, your exterior walls, your roof, your fence, etc. 

The two townhouses I've owned had fees of $40/month and $46/month.  That covers roads (snow and paving), street lighting, storm water runoff control, community docks, and community landscaping.  The $40/month one included trash (and didn't have docks), but the current one has county trash service.   There are other amenities, but they are fee for service (i.e. only boat owners pay for the boat yard and marina). 

I looked at some condos that had fees more like $200/month.  The townhouse-style condos included exterior maintenance, and the apartment-style (flats) usually had a utility or two included.

Actually we own our townhouse in fee simple and the HOA is still responsible for our roof, outside walls, painting the exterior, etc, bc its in our bylaws. Owning in fee simple (at least in my state) doesn't prohibit an HOA for being responsible for this stuff- if that were true, they wouldn't have to do landscaping since I own that land. It all depends on what the individual HOA covers in its bylaws, and, of course, state/municipal law.

[lemondrop]

I really don't think there's a standard avoid/don't avoid with HOA fees. They vary so much from place to place from what they cover to how much they are. I think mine are quite high, but my mortgage is really low, so it kind of balances out.

[Here]

I surprises me how much is required for a neighborhood HOA. Lawn care and utilities for the common areas add up. We pay about $30 per month towards that. It is going up to pay for road repairs since we lived in a gated neighborhood. That can be costly if the community is responsible for the roads.

Ask for financials if you are interested in seeing why they are charging that amount. Lawn service for our house would cost $120a month, so your number doesn't seem high.

[rubytue]

Jan 29, 2013 20:41:41 GMT -5 @iheartcosmos said:

Jan 29, 2013 19:43:16 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Townhouse =/= condo.  A condo is going to have condo fees, which cover things like exterior maintenance and your roof.  But not all townhouses are condos.  Perhaps in your area they are, but in mine townhouses are usually fee simple, which means you own (and pay for) your land, your exterior walls, your roof, your fence, etc. 

The two townhouses I've owned had fees of $40/month and $46/month.  That covers roads (snow and paving), street lighting, storm water runoff control, community docks, and community landscaping.  The $40/month one included trash (and didn't have docks), but the current one has county trash service.   There are other amenities, but they are fee for service (i.e. only boat owners pay for the boat yard and marina). 

I looked at some condos that had fees more like $200/month.  The townhouse-style condos included exterior maintenance, and the apartment-style (flats) usually had a utility or two included.

Actually we own our townhouse in fee simple and the HOA is still responsible for our roof, outside walls, painting the exterior, etc, bc its in our bylaws. Owning in fee simple (at least in my state) doesn't prohibit an HOA for being responsible for this stuff- if that were true, they wouldn't have to do landscaping since I own that land. It all depends on what the individual HOA covers in its bylaws, and, of course, state/municipal law.

Wow. I stand corrected. But that is the first time I've heard of that.

[hannamaren]

The townhouse we are buying (maybe) has $400 a month. Covers roof, exterior, insurance, snow removal, grass, swimming pool, landscaping and water use.

[bojo]

"Townhouse" is an architectural style, not a type of community association.  A townhouse can be a condo, but not all are.  Many are HOA's, or Homeowner Associations, where you own the land and the house and may be responsible for all the maintenance, depending on the community.  Some do your lawn care and snow removal, some have private roads, some are public.  All of that affects the HOA fee.

In a condo, you only own "from the walls in".  Everything from the walls on out is the responsibility of the condo association.  That is why condo fees are usually so much higher than HOA fees.

You have to look at exactly what services you are getting for your money and determine if you think it is worthwhile.  We all have different priorities.

There, that's Community Association Management 101 for today.