I need a paleo explanation, please

[heliocentric]

I know about the concept of paleo eating, but I still have this question and I haven't seen it answered (and I'm too lazy to keep looking)...

My understanding is that grains should be avoided because they aren't something earlier humans would have found in their surroundings. Grains didn't really become popular until people learned to farm. What I don't get is, how is that different than any fruit or veggie? All are found in nature and now all are farmed to grow them in large quantities and in areas where they were not native. It's not like grains were made in a lab somewhere. They grew from the soil and someone, somewhere along the line decided to cultivate them, right? I assume they cultivated them because they had eaten them and found them tasty and/or filling. How is that different than finding a stalk of broccoli growing and eating that, then deciding to farm it?

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.

[juangela]

I'm about 95% confident in my answer, so someone might have a better explanation. From my understanding, grains need to be broken down into something else to consume them (you can't just pull down a stalk of wheat and eat it...well, you could, but eww) while you can just pluck that piece of broccoli out of the ground and eat it.

All veggies you eat while doing paleo should be able to be consumed raw. You can totally cook them, but they shouldn't be things that require processing to eat.

Does that help?

[heliocentric]

That does help, thanks.

What about meat, though? We cook that. Well, I guess you don't HAVE to cook it, so maybe that's the difference.

[shauni27]

Mostly my question is about dairy and legumes...you don't really need to process those things to eat them...at least raw milk and some legumes, right? And I think both are a healthy part of the diet, as are whole grains.

[katietornado]

Ask a paleo fanatic about legumes and you'll get an earful about lectins!

www.paleoplan.com/2011/03-30/why-no-grains-and-legumes/

I happen to agree with you, Shauni, and shit...if I didn't eat grains, soy, or dairy, I wouldn't get any protein because I'm a vegetarian.

[joenali]

Jun 1, 2012 8:25:14 GMT -5 juangela said:

I'm about 95% confident in my answer, so someone might have a better explanation. From my understanding, grains need to be broken down into something else to consume them (you can't just pull down a stalk of wheat and eat it...well, you could, but eww) while you can just pluck that piece of broccoli out of the ground and eat it.

All veggies you eat while doing paleo should be able to be consumed raw. You can totally cook them, but they shouldn't be things that require processing to eat.

Does that help?

You can't just tip over a cow and go to town on it! You have to kill it, skin it, cut the meat off of it, prep it, cook it.

[heliocentric]

I forgot about dairy! That shouldn't be bad, then, but it is. Interesting.

[joenali]

Jun 1, 2012 8:47:07 GMT -5 heliocentric said:

I forgot about dairy! That shouldn't be bad, then, but it is. Interesting.

A lot of people will argue that we are the only mammal that drinks another mammal's milk. A lot of people are lactose intolerant and perhaps that is because we should not be drinking another mammals milk.

This is not necessarily my opinion, but something I've read and heard others say.

[juangela]

Jun 1, 2012 8:43:34 GMT -5 joenali said:

Jun 1, 2012 8:25:14 GMT -5 juangela said:

I'm about 95% confident in my answer, so someone might have a better explanation. From my understanding, grains need to be broken down into something else to consume them (you can't just pull down a stalk of wheat and eat it...well, you could, but eww) while you can just pluck that piece of broccoli out of the ground and eat it.

All veggies you eat while doing paleo should be able to be consumed raw. You can totally cook them, but they shouldn't be things that require processing to eat.

Does that help?

You can't just tip over a cow and go to town on it! You have to kill it, skin it, cut the meat off of it, prep it, cook it.

I wasn't talking about meat, I was talking about grains and veggies, which was her question.

[joenali]

Jun 1, 2012 8:52:12 GMT -5 juangela said:

Jun 1, 2012 8:43:34 GMT -5 joenali said:

You can't just tip over a cow and go to town on it! You have to kill it, skin it, cut the meat off of it, prep it, cook it.

I wasn't talking about meat, I was talking about grains and veggies, which was her question.

How come those rules don't apply to meat??

[onomatopoeia]

I believe a big part of it is that today's grains bear little resemblance to grains during paleolithic times. They've been cross-bred and genetically modified with little understanding of how the end result affects humans. Also, it wasn't that they just became popular when people learned to farm... the agricultural revolution caused wheat/grain based products become a MAJOR part of the human diet. Before, you had to grow it (or find it wild), cultivate it, and turn it into something edible all by hand. Other food was more easily available, and nutritionally you got more bang for your buck. Now, you can grow it more quickly, cultivate it at light speed, and then process it into 80% of the food on the grocery store shelves (even the cream of mushroom soup that I cooked with the other night had wheat in it). People shouldn't eat as much as they do...it's in everything.

I'm reading "The Paleo Diet" (Cordain), it's pretty interesting. I've tried to cut most wheat out of my diet. I can't bring myself to give up all dairy...I love cheese too much. "Wheat Belly" is also an interesting read. Reading about how 2 pieces of whole wheat bread can raise your blood sugar level higher than a can of soda was enlightening. It was hard at first (I also love crackers, lol), but I do feel a lot better since I did it.

[clseale]

Jun 1, 2012 8:58:55 GMT -5 onomatopoeia said:

I believe a big part of it is that today's grains bear little resemblance to grains during paleolithic times. They've been cross-bred and genetically modified with little understanding of how the end result affects humans. Also, it wasn't that they just became popular when people learned to farm... the agricultural revolution caused wheat/grain based products become a MAJOR part of the human diet. Before, you had to grow it (or find it wild), cultivate it, and turn it into something edible all by hand. Other food was more easily available, and nutritionally you got more bang for your buck. Now, you can grow it more quickly, cultivate it at light speed, and then process it into 80% of the food on the grocery store shelves (even the cream of mushroom soup that I cooked with the other night had wheat in it). People shouldn't eat as much as they do...it's in everything. I'm reading "The Paleo Diet" (Cordain), it's pretty interesting. I've tried to cut most wheat out of my diet. I can't bring myself to give up all dairy...I love cheese too much. "Wheat Belly" is also an interesting read. Reading about how 2 pieces of whole wheat bread can raise your blood sugar level higher than a can of soda was enlightening. It was hard at first (I also love crackers, lol), but I do feel a lot better since I did it.

This is a very informative explanation. Thanks. The bolded part speaks to my point about moderation. I really think this (as a country) is our biggest downfall.

[heliocentric]

Jun 1, 2012 8:58:55 GMT -5 onomatopoeia said:

I believe a big part of it is that today's grains bear little resemblance to grains during paleolithic times. They've been cross-bred and genetically modified with little understanding of how the end result affects humans. Also, it wasn't that they just became popular when people learned to farm... the agricultural revolution caused wheat/grain based products become a MAJOR part of the human diet. Before, you had to grow it (or find it wild), cultivate it, and turn it into something edible all by hand. Other food was more easily available, and nutritionally you got more bang for your buck. Now, you can grow it more quickly, cultivate it at light speed, and then process it into 80% of the food on the grocery store shelves (even the cream of mushroom soup that I cooked with the other night had wheat in it). People shouldn't eat as much as they do...it's in everything.

I'm reading "The Paleo Diet" (Cordain), it's pretty interesting. I've tried to cut most wheat out of my diet. I can't bring myself to give up all dairy...I love cheese too much. "Wheat Belly" is also an interesting read. Reading about how 2 pieces of whole wheat bread can raise your blood sugar level higher than a can of soda was enlightening. It was hard at first (I also love crackers, lol), but I do feel a lot better since I did it.

What about grains other than wheat, though? People aren't overeating quinoa or amaranth.

Is that true about the soda v bread? What if it was sandwhich with a protein on it? Don't some fruits also cause a spike in blood sugar? What about eating a bunch of beets?

I should've never started this thread. I just keep thinking of more and more questions. Thanks to those answering. I didn't mean to create a "pick on paleo" thread, but I find it confusing and am trying to understand.

[juangela]

Jun 1, 2012 8:53:48 GMT -5 joenali said:

Jun 1, 2012 8:52:12 GMT -5 juangela said:

I wasn't talking about meat, I was talking about grains and veggies, which was her question.

How come those rules don't apply to meat??

To be completely honest, I have no idea, other than that, presumably, cavemen put their meat over fire and cooked it. Additionally, meat and grains/veggies aren't a one-to-one. Being able to pluck something from the ground and eat it doesn't make it primal. Again, I was simply responding to the grains vs. veggies question.

I'm not a paleo expert, just someone who feels better when she doesn't eat grains/legumes/dairy. Since going full-on paleo I've had more energy, slept better, and built more muscle. I was gluten free for a long time before dropping the rest of the grains/legumes and long before considering dropping dairy. I eat cake, cookies, ice cream etc. on occasion and do so without apology.

For more on grains and why we don't need them, this article is interesting (but obviously primal-biased) www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/#axzz1wY8qcx00.

[heliocentric]

Jun 1, 2012 8:49:35 GMT -5 joenali said:

Jun 1, 2012 8:47:07 GMT -5 heliocentric said:

I forgot about dairy! That shouldn't be bad, then, but it is. Interesting.

A lot of people will argue that we are the only mammal that drinks another mammal's milk. A lot of people are lactose intolerant and perhaps that is because we should not be drinking another mammals milk.

This is not necessarily my opinion, but something I've read and heard others say.

I've heard that, too. Wild animals will eat pretty much all parts of an animal they've killed right? If everything else is fair game for them, I'm not sure why milk wouldn't be other than they couldn't get living animals to cooperate.

[katietornado]

Today's fruits and veggies bear little to no resemblance to those of 10,000 years ago, but those are OK with Paleo, apparently.

[Wines Not Whines]

I assume coffee isn't Paleo then? Coffee requires a heck of a lot of processing before it's consumed.

Are you not supposed to eat new hybrid varieties of fruits? No Honeycrisp apples?

I don't really get the concept, honestly. Cavemen didn't exactly live long lives. And they only ate foods that were local to them. Even just going back 200 years ago (not nearly back to caveman days), you couldn't find bananas or tropical fruits in the US.

[shauni27]

I agree, my goal is not to pick on Paleo eaters, I am just confused and don't think it makes sense, at least not for me. Milk and legumes are not ok, but deli meat is? Color me confused!

[katietornado]

Jun 1, 2012 9:19:29 GMT -5 Wines Not Whines said:

I assume coffee isn't Paleo then? Coffee requires a heck of a lot of processing before it's consumed.

Are you not supposed to eat new hybrid varieties of fruits? No Honeycrisp apples?

I don't really get the concept, honestly. Cavemen didn't exactly live long lives.

But they didn't suffer from "diseases of civilization." Obesity, diabetes, etc.

[Deleted]

Jun 1, 2012 9:15:06 GMT -5 katietornado said:

Today's fruits and veggies bear little to no resemblance to those of 10,000 years ago, but those are OK with Paleo, apparently.

LOL. I know. I wanted to say this earlier but was trying to refrain.

[juangela]

I'm regretting responding to your question at this point since this has, in fact, become a paleo-bashing thread. While I feel passionate about eating in a way that makes me feel good and am vocal about what works for me, I honestly don't care how anyone else eats. I was very anti-paleo for a long time for many of the reasons that you all have said.

My husband is not 100% paleo, he loves dairy and doesn't want to give it up, and my child is not either, he drinks milk (although it is organic and from grass-fed cows) and has a cookie or goldfish crackers occasionally. The funny thing with my son in particular is that he doesn't see me or DH eating cookies/crackers etc and really doesn't ask for them. He'll go through an entire pint of blueberries before touching a cookie.

Ultimately, however, I think we can all agree that everyone should eat as it best suits him or her.

For some more well-rounded information on paleo, I highly recommend this post from everydaypaleo.com, everydaypaleo.com/2010/10/28/what-does-eating-paleo-mean-and-a-recipe/. A quote "This whole “paleo thing” is not a one size fits all program. In fact, it’s not a program. It’s life and a better life because eating paleo means eating food that makes you feel amazing instead of fat, lazy, unhealthy, and sick."

[juangela]

Jun 1, 2012 9:19:46 GMT -5 shauni27 said:

I agree, my goal is not to pick on Paleo eaters, I am just confused and don't think it makes sense, at least not for me. Milk and legumes are not ok, but deli meat is? Color me confused!

Deli meat is not ok, actually, particularly if it isn't nitrate/nitrite free. But technically, neither are raisins or sweet potato due to their insulin-spiking abilities. So, like anything, people take what they want and forget about other stuff.

[heliocentric]

Jun 1, 2012 9:28:06 GMT -5 juangela said:

I'm regretting responding to your question at this point since this has, in fact, become a paleo-bashing thread. While I feel passionate about eating in a way that makes me feel good and am vocal about what works for me, I honestly don't care how anyone else eats. I was very anti-paleo for a long time for many of the reasons that you all have said.

My husband is not 100% paleo, he loves dairy and doesn't want to give it up, and my child is not either, he drinks milk (although it is organic and from grass-fed cows) and has a cookie or goldfish crackers occasionally. The funny thing with my son in particular is that he doesn't see me or DH eating cookies/crackers etc and really doesn't ask for them. He'll go through an entire pint of blueberries before touching a cookie.

Ultimately, however, I think we can all agree that everyone should eat as it best suits him or her.

For some more well-rounded information on paleo, I highly recommend this post from everydaypaleo.com, everydaypaleo.com/2010/10/28/what-does-eating-paleo-mean-and-a-recipe/. A quote "This whole “paleo thing” is not a one size fits all program. In fact, it’s not a program. It’s life and a better life because eating paleo means eating food that makes you feel amazing instead of fat, lazy, unhealthy, and sick."

I will say again that I didn't intend this to become a bashing thread and I do appreciate the links/info. you provided. I'm still confused, but at least I have a better understanding than I did before.

I'm glad you found something that you like and that makes you feel good. (That's really why I was asking, people that have a paleo diet always seem to feel better from it.)

[juangela]

Jun 1, 2012 9:34:59 GMT -5 heliocentric said:

I will say again that I didn't intend this to become a bashing thread and I do appreciate the links/info. you provided. I'm still confused, but at least I have a better understanding than I did before.

I'm glad you found something that you like and that makes you feel good. (That's really why I was asking, people that have a paleo diet always seem to feel better from it.)

I know it wasn't your intention and we are an easy bunch of people to pick on! I honestly don't think of myself as eating paleo or primal in real life, it is just an easy to way to identify myself here. I think of it as clean eating going a step further, and getting here was a progression that started with clean eating, then I cut gluten, then other grains/legumes, then dairy.

My gym does not push us to go paleo, but they do provide this paleo shopping list, if it will help anyone, docs.google.com/file/d/0B2MTstmdpswSNTMwODYxNzQtMjMyNS00YjMyLWE1OWQtZWUxNWFiY2VlMDkx/edit?hl=en&pli=1.
I eat lots of things off of the "not completely paleo" list, including raisins, sweet potatoes, cashews, raw honey in some recipes, and sometimes maple syrup since I grew up in Vermont and it is a way of life. There are no paleo police knocking on people's doors and raiding cabinets .

My DH and I practice paleo by trying to stick to fruits/veggies/lean meats/nuts, and DH does some dairy. We try to buy local meats, preferably grassfed. The dairy we do buy is also typically local and grassfed (we are fortunate to have an Amish market nearby). I do it because I feel good, and felt progressively better as I cut things out of my diet. I believe that our bodies are not designed to properly use and digest a lot of the foods that we eat, thus I don't eat them.

I don't try to match what my ancestors ate, cause really? Do we have any idea what cavemen ate? Presumably species that are also extinct. For me, it is more about how our bodies process and use different types of foods than whether or not our ancient ancestors ate it.

[shauni27]

Jun 1, 2012 9:47:31 GMT -5 juangela said:

Jun 1, 2012 9:34:59 GMT -5 heliocentric said:

I will say again that I didn't intend this to become a bashing thread and I do appreciate the links/info. you provided. I'm still confused, but at least I have a better understanding than I did before.

I'm glad you found something that you like and that makes you feel good. (That's really why I was asking, people that have a paleo diet always seem to feel better from it.)

I know it wasn't your intention and we are an easy bunch of people to pick on! I honestly don't think of myself as eating paleo or primal in real life, it is just an easy to way to identify myself here. I think of it as clean eating going a step further, and getting here was a progression that started with clean eating, then I cut gluten, then other grains/legumes, then dairy.

My gym does not push us to go paleo, but they do provide this paleo shopping list, if it will help anyone, docs.google.com/file/d/0B2MTstmdpswSNTMwODYxNzQtMjMyNS00YjMyLWE1OWQtZWUxNWFiY2VlMDkx/edit?hl=en&pli=1.
I eat lots of things off of the "not completely paleo" list, including raisins, sweet potatoes, cashews, raw honey in some recipes, and sometimes maple syrup since I grew up in Vermont and it is a way of life. There are no paleo police knocking on people's doors and raiding cabinets .

My DH and I practice paleo by trying to stick to fruits/veggies/lean meats/nuts, and DH does some dairy. We try to buy local meats, preferably grassfed. The dairy we do buy is also typically local and grassfed (we are fortunate to have an Amish market nearby). I do it because I feel good, and felt progressively better as I cut things out of my diet. I believe that our bodies are not designed to properly use and digest a lot of the foods that we eat, thus I don't eat them.

I don't try to match what my ancestors ate, cause really? Do we have any idea what cavemen ate? Presumably species that are also extinct. For me, it is more about how our bodies process and use different types of foods than whether or not our ancient ancestors ate it.

Thanks for explaining this to us and the deli meat explanation. I do think you should eat what works for you and your family to feel healthy, etc. It sounds like you have adapted a sort of Paleo diet that works for you guys that sounds a lot more realistic than traditional paleo.

[gt7301b]

Jun 1, 2012 9:21:22 GMT -5 katietornado said:

Jun 1, 2012 9:19:29 GMT -5 Wines Not Whines said:

I assume coffee isn't Paleo then? Coffee requires a heck of a lot of processing before it's consumed.

Are you not supposed to eat new hybrid varieties of fruits? No Honeycrisp apples?

I don't really get the concept, honestly. Cavemen didn't exactly live long lives.

But they didn't suffer from "diseases of civilization." Obesity, diabetes, etc.

They were also running around all day killing their food, rather than sitting at computers for most of the day.

I see the benefits of reducing all the processed crap and the quantity of food that we eat, but I still am not sure I really buy any of the caveman logic. It is an apples to oranges (or wheat to meat) comparison to me.

[dakotadangerdog]

I haven't done a ton of research into the scientific side of why paleo allows/restricts certain items, but from what ive run across (mostly from robb wolf and mark sisson) i understand that there are reasons to why we don't eat certain things beyond "cavemen didn't eat it". Legumes contain high levels of lectin, which is bad for the intestines. Dairy causes inflammation. Many people have wheat sensitivities that they don't even know about. I see strict paleo as a starting point, if you can eat dairy with no I'll effects, the by all means, eat dairy. I am allergic to dairy and oats and sensitive to wheat, so paleo was not a big jump for me.

[SusanBAnthony]

Jun 1, 2012 21:54:48 GMT -5 dakotadangerdog said:

I haven't done a ton of research into the scientific side of why paleo allows/restricts certain items, but from what ive run across (mostly from robb wolf and mark sisson) i understand that there are reasons to why we don't eat certain things beyond "cavemen didn't eat it". Legumes contain high levels of lectin, which is bad for the intestines. Dairy causes inflammation. Many people have wheat sensitivities that they don't even know about. I see strict paleo as a starting point, if you can eat dairy with no I'll effects, the by all means, eat dairy. I am allergic to dairy and oats and sensitive to wheat, so paleo was not a big jump for me.

But isn't meat fairly bad for your cholesterol and cancer risk? I mean, every food has some bad things (green leafy veggies and oxalic acid for instance) but overall if you eat whole foods in moderation and dn't go crazy, I have a hard time thinking any whole food is bad, unless you have. A specific sensitivity.

[dakotadangerdog]

Paleo emphasizes buying grass fed, pasture raised, organic meat. Also, getting lean cuts of meat. You can have any variety of beef, pork, chicken, turkey, seafood, eggs as your protein source, and you're encouraged to mix it up. So if you are worried about red meat's effect on your cholesterol you can avoid it or eat it minimally. And it's not like I eat five whole steaks a day. I have eggs for breakfast and only a small serving of meat for my remaining four meals, about 2oz per meal.

I don't see any issue cutting out grains , dairy and legumes, there are plenty of other nutritious foods I can eat that keep me healthy and satisfied.

[heliocentric]

Jun 3, 2012 12:42:52 GMT -5 dakotadangerdog said:

Paleo emphasizes buying grass fed, pasture raised, organic meat. Also, getting lean cuts of meat. You can have any variety of beef, pork, chicken, turkey, seafood, eggs as your protein source, and you're encouraged to mix it up. So if you are worried about red meat's effect on your cholesterol you can avoid it or eat it minimally. And it's not like I eat five whole steaks a day. I have eggs for breakfast and only a small serving of meat for my remaining four meals, about 2oz per meal.

I don't see any issue cutting out grains , dairy and legumes, there are plenty of other nutritious foods I can eat that keep me healthy and satisfied.

OK, I'm back with another question. This time about meat. Wouldn't paleo humans have eaten pretty much all animal parts (fatty parts, offal, etc.) not just the lean ones? I imagine it was a challenge to get meat and when they did they didn't waste anything.

Maybe I'm too hung up on the name paleo. It sounds like the diet (or whatever you prefer to call it) isn't about eating the way paleolithic humans ate, but rather, avoiding foods that some feel evidence suggests are not healthful/easily digested, etc. If that's the case, it now makes more sense to sense (and explains the main reason I was originally confused).