Slaying the green-eyed monster

[FWP]

I know that some jealousy can be helpful, but how do you fight the jealousy that's based in insecurity? Or maybe I should start with: how do you overcome insecurity?

[Kore]

It depends on the issue, I think. What are you insecure about?

[Kore]

Jan 31, 2013 11:50:39 GMT -5 Saint Monica said:

I have overcome insecurity by getting older. The older I get the less fucks I give.

This is very true, too.

[lime]

Jan 31, 2013 11:50:39 GMT -5 Saint Monica said:

I have overcome insecurity by getting older. The older I get the less fucks I give.

Definitely this. 

I also try to work on doing something positive for myself that helps with the insecurity. 

If nothing else works, I ask myself if I would like to trade places with that person and take all of their negatives as well as positives. Not once have I ever answered yes to this question. 

[winnied]

I think about the things that I'm good at or have that no everyone else has. Not in a "Ha! I'm better than you!" way but it's important to recognize everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses.

For example, let's say Sally is a great cooker/baker and you wish you were better. Well maybe you're better at soccer or are more successful at your job. That's probably something Sally wishes she had sometimes, too.

[lurkergirl123]

Jan 31, 2013 11:50:39 GMT -5 Saint Monica said:

I have overcome insecurity by getting older. The older I get the less fucks I give.

Yep. 

What are you insecure about?

[FWP]

Jan 31, 2013 11:49:45 GMT -5 Kore said:

It depends on the issue, I think. What are you insecure about?

Haha, depends on the day I guess. Some things are within my control (ie physical conditioning) and some are not.

I guess I'm more frustrated because intellectually I know I should not be jealous, that I have a lot to offer, etc. As another poster said, everyone is different. I just worry that someone else's combo of strengths and weaknesses may be more attractive to my husband someday. Rationally I know that he's very loyal, that he chose me, we have a lot of history together and intimacy that he doesn't have with anyone else, blahblah.

We're both engineers and went to a male-dominated school, work in male-dominated environments, etc. He learned to deal with the jealousy thing a lot earlier than I did. I am having a real hard time keeping the double-standards at bay.

[mbcdefg]

It depends.

If it's something that I can achieve by working on it, I either work on it, or I tell myself, "If you're not willing to do the work then you're not allowed to complain." Like, I can't reasonably be jealous of someone in great shape if I continue to eat like shit and not work out much.

If it's something out of my control, I try to tell myself that the other person might not be as well-off as I think they are. For example, I was super-jealous and upset when a good friend was able to buy a house before MH and I (especially since we were living in a place/situation I severely hated). But we kept saving and looking, and now we have a house that I love. We're in better shape than the friend financially, and honestly I think our marriage is a lot better than hers, too. (Not that it's a contest or I feel superior ... I'm just pointing out that someone who appears to have it all might have some struggles that you aren't aware of.)

[takeonyou]

My way of overcoming it is realizing that no one shows the worst of themselves. No one has a perfect life. I know I have a very happy marriage, we are safe financially, we are all healthy and I have amazing kids, family, and friends. What more could I ever ask for?

[mbcdefg]

Jan 31, 2013 12:02:16 GMT -5 FWP said:

Jan 31, 2013 11:49:45 GMT -5 Kore said:

It depends on the issue, I think. What are you insecure about?

Haha, depends on the day I guess. Some things are within my control (ie physical conditioning) and some are not.

I guess I'm more frustrated because intellectually I know I should not be jealous, that I have a lot to offer, etc. As another poster said, everyone is different. I just worry that someone else's combo of strengths and weaknesses may be more attractive to my husband someday. Rationally I know that he's very loyal, that he chose me, we have a lot of history together and intimacy that he doesn't have with anyone else, blahblah.

If there's no reason for you to suspect that he'd leave you, I would try and forget it. He picked you for a reason.

MH and I regularly ask each other, "Are you happy?" Generally the answer is yes, but once in a while one of us will bring up an issue that's bugging us (lack of communication or closeness, annoying habits, etc.), and then we try to work on it.

[Deleted]

For your particular issue I would vote therapy. Therapy is super awesome.

You may need tools to fight your anxiety--lifestyle changes, meditation or even medication. A therapist can point you in the right direction.

[Deleted]

Jan 31, 2013 12:06:14 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

It depends.

If it's something that I can achieve by working on it, I either work on it, or I tell myself, "If you're not willing to do the work then you're not allowed to complain." Like, I can't reasonably be jealous of someone in great shape if I continue to eat like shit and not work out much.

Age and maturity have helped a lot.  So has developing a greater sense of personal accountability.  So I absolutely agree with this.  Even with things in the past -- a lot of times people did better than me with whatever because they tried harder/did something smarter/whatever.  So I can't pout about them having something I don't have.

I also try really hard not to compare myself to other people.  I'm me, I'm happy, I have things going for me.  So if someone else is thinner or richer or smarter or whatever, who cares?  There are billions of people in the world.  There will always be someone who is more x than me.  I've accepted that and can move on.

[Kore]

I think a huge thing for me was to stop comparing myself to other people. It doesn't make me a better person if I note that someone else is less accomplished, has more debt, etc. It's not a competition. The only thing I can do is work to improve my little corner of the world. It's like they said in Mean Girls: "Calling somebody else fat won't make you any skinnier. Calling someone stupid doesn't make you any smarter. And ruining Regina George's life definitely didn't make me any happier. All you can do in life is try to solve the problem in front of you."

You are you. You don't need to be better than your H's hot coworkers, or your friend with the nicer house. You just have to be the most awesome version of yourself.

[mbcdefg]

Jan 31, 2013 12:12:09 GMT -5 v said:

Jan 31, 2013 12:06:14 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

It depends.

If it's something that I can achieve by working on it, I either work on it, or I tell myself, "If you're not willing to do the work then you're not allowed to complain." Like, I can't reasonably be jealous of someone in great shape if I continue to eat like shit and not work out much.

Age and maturity have helped a lot.  So has developing a greater sense of personal accountability.  So I absolutely agree with this.  Even with things in the past -- a lot of times people did better than me with whatever because they tried harder/did something smarter/whatever.  So I can't pout about them having something I don't have.

I also try really hard not to compare myself to other people.  I'm me, I'm happy, I have things going for me.  So if someone else is thinner or richer or smarter or whatever, who cares?  There are billions of people in the world.  There will always be someone who is more x than me.  I've accepted that and can move on.

This is a big thing with MH - he has some hangups about money (his parents, though loving, were terrible with money, and certain situations in his young adulthood with them have really affected his view on money). We're not broke, but we've got some debt and we have to plan ahead for a big trip or a big home repair. He hasn't had his annual raise in three years (he's a teacher and the contract has been stalled). He's always saying, "If only we had a little more."

And I reply with, "Look. We have a house, we have money in the bank, we can pay our bills, we can do fun things. Heven forbid a disaster, but we have people that'll help us if necessary. ANYONE can use 'a little more.' And you're the type that, even if we had a lot more money, you'd still be wishing that we had just a little more." And that usually gets him to calm down a bit.

[Deleted]

Jan 31, 2013 12:16:03 GMT -5 Kore said:

I think a huge thing for me was to stop comparing myself to other people. It doesn't make me a better person if I note that someone else is less accomplished, has more debt, etc. It's not a competition. The only thing I can do is work to improve my little corner of the world. It's like they said in Mean Girls: "Calling somebody else fat won't make you any skinnier. Calling someone stupid doesn't make you any smarter. And ruining Regina George's life definitely didn't make me any happier. All you can do in life is try to solve the problem in front of you."

You are you. You don't need to be better than your H's hot coworkers, or your friend with the nicer house. You just have to be the most awesome version of yourself.

I really don't like the game of "Okay, that person has more money than I do and lives in a nicer house, but she isn't as smart as me and I have better hair and a nicer husband so I'm better off than her in other ways" (chances are slim that I have better hair, but just go with me here).  The "everybody has things that are going for them and things that aren't going for them" thing, once start looking for specifics, is just putting others down to make yourself feel better.  That isn't nice or productive.  (And honestly, I do think that there are people who have more going for themselves than others, so it isn't necessarily a game you can win.)  So I just focus on me and what will make me happy, and not whether someone else is doing better or worse than me.  And this makes it much easier to be happy for people when hard work or good genes or luck have given them great things.

[imojoebunny]

I look at it this way, it has been helpful to me, and I can honestly say, I am not really jealous of anyone. I may covet their bath tub or their whatever occasionally, but it doesn't really get internalized.

"unless I am willing to take their whole life, in it's entirety, I cannot be jealous".

You can always compare one aspect of someone, and your life will fall short, but if you have to take their entire life, husband, dog, house, parents, kids, work load, ect. It always makes my life look more appealing.

[FWP]

Jan 31, 2013 12:24:20 GMT -5 Saint Monica said:

Have you ever met a man that had qualities that your H doesnt have that are really awesome?  Ever see a guy hotter with more money than your H?
I bet you have.  Yet you aren't running away with these people.  You aren't looking at your H saying ' oh shit he sucks, man i really messed up'.

True, but the devil's advocate in me says, "even if I didn't run away with someone, it obviously happens."

[aspentosh]

Jan 31, 2013 12:16:03 GMT -5 Kore said:

I think a huge thing for me was to stop comparing myself to other people. It doesn't make me a better person if I note that someone else is less accomplished, has more debt, etc. It's not a competition. The only thing I can do is work to improve my little corner of the world. It's like they said in Mean Girls: "Calling somebody else fat won't make you any skinnier. Calling someone stupid doesn't make you any smarter. And ruining Regina George's life definitely didn't make me any happier. All you can do in life is try to solve the problem in front of you."

You are you. You don't need to be better than your H's hot coworkers, or your friend with the nicer house. You just have to be the most awesome version of yourself.

I love you.

Kore is right, though. Don't compare yourself to others because it never ends well.

[FWP]

Jan 31, 2013 12:12:03 GMT -5 @kcpokergal said:

For your particular issue I would vote therapy. Therapy is super awesome.

You may need tools to fight your anxiety--lifestyle changes, meditation or even medication. A therapist can point you in the right direction.

You know, I had never considered that these feelings could be classified as anxiety, but I think you might be on to something there.

[FWP]

Jan 31, 2013 12:35:46 GMT -5 aspentosh said:

Kore is right, though. Don't compare yourself to others because it never ends well.

I agree with this in principal. How do you actually do this, though? It's one thing to not be mean to people, it's another thing to control your thoughts.

[explorer2001]

I love what Kore said.

I find I don't get jealous when I focus on all the good things in my life. It is too easy to see that A has a cool job, B gets to travel, and C has an awesome house. But rarely does anyone have everything, and never without trade off. Also it's too easy to see the good things others have and not see the bad. It's too easy to compare to celebrity vs homeless. If we compare we tend to compare up.

That said I try not to compare. And I try to remember to be grateful for what I have. Hence Thankful Thursday posts.

[FWP]

Jan 31, 2013 12:40:46 GMT -5 Saint Monica said:

Back when I actually gave a shit I thought this too. But it is faulty logic. People cheat but sometimes it is with nasty gross looking poor folk.  Sometimes they even marry that person. Someone you you may evaluate and categorize as undesirable (and I'm not just talking visually) or could not comprehend why someone/anyone/anything would want.   Plus, why are you discounting him?

Its a tough life being that stressed out/constantly evaluating things.

 

LOL at nasty gross looking poor folk. You're right, it is tough and totally self-induced. I guess I just need to get to that not-giving-a-shit place.

[aspentosh]

Jan 31, 2013 12:41:38 GMT -5 FWP said:

Jan 31, 2013 12:35:46 GMT -5 aspentosh said:

Kore is right, though. Don't compare yourself to others because it never ends well.

I agree with this in principal. How do you actually do this, though? It's one thing to not be mean to people, it's another thing to control your thoughts.

I'll give examples from my life.

My sister is 9 years older than me, makes 3x what I do (base salary, she gets 1x her salary in profit sharing) and just bought a huge house. At first I was jealous she has the house and the money but then I realized I have the house I want (hers is too big IMO and I wouldn't want to clean it) and we paid a lot less for our house and therefore our mortgage is lower. I could have easily been swallowed up with jealousy but I pushed it back down and realized my house is great and I make a good salary (even if hers is higher).

Same sort of thing- she maxes out her 401k and has for years. Well it's easier to do at her salary, but I think putting in 10% of my salary at this age is great.

Not sure if that helps at all...

[Deleted]

Jan 31, 2013 12:41:38 GMT -5 FWP said:

Jan 31, 2013 12:35:46 GMT -5 aspentosh said:

Kore is right, though. Don't compare yourself to others because it never ends well.

I agree with this in principal. How do you actually do this, though? It's one thing to not be mean to people, it's another thing to control your thoughts.

I have a couple of thoughts about this. #1. I think people are naturally prone to compare less when they are genuinely happy with what they have. So that goes back to working on yourself, your career, your relationships, hobbies, etc. until you feel more content with your life. #2. As a PP mentioned, I think part of it tends to happen as you age and realize that some people really are just lucky and that's all it boils down to. And #3. I think it's important to surround yourself with kind people so that you honestly feel happy for them when things go well in their lives.

You know all that advice about realizing that some people are better off in some respects and you're better off in others? That might be mostly true but I have this friend from college who defies this logic. She's totally gorgeous; happily married; has tons of money; adorable, well behaved children; a beautiful house, etc. etc. I'd hate her except that she's also one of the nicest, most thoughtful and generous people I've ever met So while I sometimes get jealous about the money and fabulous vacations, I am also genuinely happy for her. And I realize that it would be completely delusional for me to think, well sure she has all these things but I bet she's secretly miserable in her marriage or they're up to their eyeballs in debt. Because that just isn't true. And even if it were, would that change anything for me? Would it make me happy to think of her going through a divorce? No, of course not.

[Deleted]

Jan 31, 2013 11:54:41 GMT -5 winnied said:

I think about the things that I'm good at or have that no everyone else has. Not in a "Ha! I'm better than you!" way but it's important to recognize everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses.

For example, let's say Sally is a great cooker/baker and you wish you were better. Well maybe you're better at soccer or are more successful at your job. That's probably something Sally wishes she had sometimes, too.

I still think this is kind of a shitty game.  Why can't you just be happy for Sally that is a good cook, and enjoy her cookies?  I want my friends to be happy.  I don't want them to be sad about their shortcomings or to wish they played soccer as well as I do.  And I don't need to sigh and say "Well, I wish I could cook like Sally but I'm sure there's something her life that isn't perfect" to make me feel better about myself.  That doesn't make me feel better about myself.

[Kore]

Jan 31, 2013 13:25:11 GMT -5 v said:

Jan 31, 2013 11:54:41 GMT -5 winnied said:

I think about the things that I'm good at or have that no everyone else has. Not in a "Ha! I'm better than you!" way but it's important to recognize everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses.

For example, let's say Sally is a great cooker/baker and you wish you were better. Well maybe you're better at soccer or are more successful at your job. That's probably something Sally wishes she had sometimes, too.

I still think this is kind of a shitty game.  Why can't you just be happy for Sally that is a good cook, and enjoy her cookies?  I want my friends to be happy.  I don't want them to be sad about their shortcomings or to wish they played soccer as well as I do.  And I don't need to sigh and say "Well, I wish I could cook like Sally but I'm sure there's something her life that isn't perfect" to make me feel better about myself.  That doesn't make me feel better about myself.

I'm with you, v. That kind of thinking is still negative & feeds low self esteem. Your self esteem shouldn't be tied to what others have or don't have.

[winnied]

Jan 31, 2013 13:25:11 GMT -5 v said:

Jan 31, 2013 11:54:41 GMT -5 winnied said:

I think about the things that I'm good at or have that no everyone else has. Not in a "Ha! I'm better than you!" way but it's important to recognize everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses.

For example, let's say Sally is a great cooker/baker and you wish you were better. Well maybe you're better at soccer or are more successful at your job. That's probably something Sally wishes she had sometimes, too.

I still think this is kind of a shitty game.  Why can't you just be happy for Sally that is a good cook, and enjoy her cookies?  I want my friends to be happy.  I don't want them to be sad about their shortcomings or to wish they played soccer as well as I do.  And I don't need to sigh and say "Well, I wish I could cook like Sally but I'm sure there's something her life that isn't perfect" to make me feel better about myself.  That doesn't make me feel better about myself.

Oh, I wasn't very articulate in what I meant. Sorry. I meant that yes, you should be happy for your friends talents/gifts but understand that no one is perfect and you shouldn't expect yourself to be perfect either. You certainly shouldn't *think* about your friend's shortcomings, but acknowledging in general terms that everyone has them is healthy, I think. You shouldn't compare yourself to others, but rather, appreciate your gifts instead of focusing on what you don't have.

Hopefully that was more clear/positive.

[nickyd2006]

I have a friend that is constantly comparing herself to others. I'm sure she does this with me too but honestly you do need to look at all the things you have going for you, whether or not someone else has it. You need to appreciate what you have, be proud of yourself and be happy. I was telling someone about how I am viewing things this way and have become happier for it. She was like, well you shouldn't just be complacent since we are young and we should be achieving bigger and better things.... That's how I used to think and I was not happy because nothing in my pretty great life was enough for me. Things won't make you happy, and money certainly will not. Also someone's dh can leave you for someone not as pretty or skinny as you, as long as that other person is giving him the attention perhaps you are not. Or maybe he's just a douchebag that needs other women to make him feel better. There's all kinds of reasons people cheat. One of which is being unhappy with your partner because of their unhappiness.

[Deleted]

Jan 31, 2013 13:51:56 GMT -5 winnied said:

Jan 31, 2013 13:25:11 GMT -5 v said:

Oh, I wasn't very articulate in what I meant. Sorry. I meant that yes, you should be happy for your friends talents/gifts but understand that no one is perfect and you shouldn't expect yourself to be perfect either. You certainly shouldn't *think* about your friend's shortcomings, but acknowledging in general terms that everyone has them is healthy, I think. You shouldn't compare yourself to others, but rather, appreciate your gifts instead of focusing on what you don't have.

Hopefully that was more clear/positive.

I think it is healthy to acknowledge that everyone has shortcomings as a way to tolerate them in friends (like, I have a friend who is always ridiculously late for things, and I am a very prompt person, but he's awesome in so many other ways that I see lateness as a shortcoming of an awesome person and loyal friend, and totally forgive it and put up with it happily).

And I think that appreciating your gifts instead of focusing on what you don't have/what others do better is awesome and healthy and good.

But acknowledging that everyone else has shortcomings or things missing in their lives to make you feel better about what you don't have... I just don't think that is a healthy or positive game to play. 

And honestly, some people just have a fuckload of amazing things going for them and I don't easily see the bad stuff (I'm sure there's *something*, but some people really do just have really, really sweet lives), so it isn't a game that's always a productive way to make you count your own blessings either.

[heliocentric]

In your example (being afraid your DH will find someone he likes better), I think that's really something you can't control. The reality is that he might. Even if you are the perfect wife he still make choose someone else. I'm not telling you this to make you feel worse. I actually struggle with the same issues. I finally realized that it wasn't so much that I was insecure that another women might be better than me. (I am sure there are a lot of women that are smarter, more attractive, cooler, whatever.) It was more that I was insecure in my ability to pick up and move on if he left. Then I remembered that I had a good life before I met DH and I could have a good life without him. That's not saying I wouldn't be devastated, just that I know my life would go on. Yours would, too. Sometimes I have to look at a situation I am worried about and say "OK, what if that really does happen. Then what?" It helps me realize that it might suck, but would not be insurmountable.

ETA: As for other things I might be envious of, I try to remind myself to "start where I am." If I am jealous of someone's job, can I use it motivate myself to work harder or learn new skills to get a better job? If it's their fitness, what can I do to be healthier and more fit? If I'm jealous of something that I can't control, I try to remember that sulking doesn't change anything. Life isn't fair and we don't always get what we deserve. (Which is probably a good thing.)

Another strategy that I sometimes use, especially if I'm feeling envious of money is to make a big donation to a charity or volunteer someplace. Suddenly the fact that I can't have a $100K kitchen renovation when others can't even afford dinner puts things in perspective.

Good luck. Jealousy is no fun. I am envious of people who aren't the jealous type.