Firefly: The Shindig

[Muddled]

Let's discuss.

[smock]

In spite of all my pestering reminders, I actually haven't watched yet, but I will this afternoon! And I promise to come back with thoughts!

In my defense, Mr. Smock is still sick and has been hogging the TV with Myth Busters episodes for daaays.

[Muddled]

And to think that I watched it just for you, smock.

[smock]

I know, I'm such an asshole. In my defense, I had a pretty busy day yesterday and spent my evening watching and then crying about the last episode of 30 Rock.

[Muddled]

This Firefly thing isn't going very well, is it?

[smock]

Okay, I watched! I actually liked it a lot, especially because it wasn't sooper serious all the time and there was a lot of humor. I liked Captain Mal being hilarious, and he was hilariously bad at swords. AND finally River does something useful! Although no one in the crew seemed to be like "WTF is going on, I'm so confused by that weird girl," which is how I've been feeling for weeks.

Muddled, what did you think? Did the southern space gentleman work for you?

[Muddled]

I really have a hard time getting into it. The whole thing is so disjointed and contrived. Although, I admit that I wasn't paying super close attention.

I agree that it is one of the better episodes that we have seen, buuuuut... yeah.

I liked the man that stood up for the innocent chick in front of the mean girls.
I don't think that the companion needs any assistance defending herself.
The after sex scene in the beginning made me wonder what they had just done.
Where did River;s accent come from? Is that how she always talks or was that part of the show? Her little act was one of the highlights.

[smock]

I think River's thing was supposed to convince us that she's so super smart that she can pick up accents and learn a lot about people from looking at them. She never had an accent before. And I was impressed at how good her accent was!

Everyone says things really pick up after episode 4, so I'm sticking with it.

Also, the mean girls were sort of hilarious. Didn't Kaylie look like little bo peep?

[Muddled]

The dress was hideous.

I was doing other things at the time and maybe that was a mistake.

[smock]

You didn't like the RUFFLES?!?! Firefly was clearly ahead of its time!

Also "Atherton Wing" is such a crazy name. I laughed when Mal called him "Ath."

[mala]

Kaylee 4 Lyfe!

[wrathofkuus]

I'd like to talk about the idea of respect, and how different the meaning of the word is when it is applied to women, vs when it's applied to men. This was what stood out to me, and what I felt like the episode was about.

[smock]

Kuus, do you feel like this episode resurrected the gender politics of the 19th century along with the fashion?

I am curious to hear your thoughts on the companion, because in this episode there was a tension between her profession and her status as a respectable person, if that makes sense. Clearly Mal has no problem deriding her profession, and yet he takes major offense at Atherton saying he's "bought" her. Is there a difference between commodified sexuality and "buying women"?

[wrathofkuus]

I kind of feel like it took our current gender politics, and confusing ideals of what they should be, to their logical conclusion.

To me, Mal was the most consistent in his idea of respect. Sexuality is a part of your very self, and you can't really sell part of yourself and be respected as a person by someone who owns part of you. Mal pushed and prodded this guy until he exposed that, though you can see that Inara was struggling to ignore that fact at the beginning of the ball, when Atherton was gloating about having Inara as a display on his arm and not even noticing her discomfort. He saw her as stuff he bought, not a person with a perspective and feelings, and the more uncomfortable she got, the less he noticed, the harder it was for her (and us) to ignore.

The fact that playing into this status quo to the max, by physically participating in your own slavery (being bought and owned), is the means through which women are most "respected" and "respectable" is a real jab at our current ideals, IMO.

[wrathofkuus]

Firefly is making us look at how when applied to a man, the term "respect" means acknowledgment of him as an equal or even superior. But for women, it means something different, something more like outside affirmation that she's playing her role well, like a collective societal pat on the head and a "good girl!"

[wrathofkuus]

A-hem!

[gault]

I am restarting the series today so I can participate in this thread next week.

[smock]

Feb 3, 2013 13:06:43 GMT -5 wrathofkuus said:

Firefly is making us look at how when applied to a man, the term "respect" means acknowledgment of him as an equal or even superior. But for women, it means something different, something more like outside affirmation that she's playing her role well, like a collective societal pat on the head and a "good girl!"

This is a really interesting idea. But I'm curious, does "playing her role well" mean acting like the societal ideal of a good woman (which is usually chaste & obedient), or does it mean providing for men's needs (which is usually tied to sexuality)? Is there a better word than "respect" for the head patting? 

I've been thinking of this idea outside of the context of Firefly, because female professors across the board get lower marks on student evaluations than male professors. I'm wondering if it comes down exactly to this issue: an unwillingness to respect a woman in a position of authority. 

[wrathofkuus]

I have heard that, too, both from and about female professors.

I guess I'm not entirely sure what the difference is between filling the societal role of good woman and filling men's needs.

[smock]

Point taken. I guess I wonder where and how sexuality fits in, because society both praises female chastity and virginity while also saying women should be sexually available to men. Maybe it's more about men controlling and owning women's sexuality?

[wrathofkuus]

It is a confusing message, and like the shifting ideals of beauty, I think it's designed that way on purpose, so women are always trying to figure out how to do it right. After all, if they managed to achieve... whatever that is, then they might have time to rest on their laurels and think about what it all means, whether they got any value put of it, whether it's worth the trouble.

[Muddled]

Here's another Firefly curiosity. The companion gets a lot of respect, it seems. People seem to treat her as if she has a very high and desirable position, which is opposite of the general opinion of prostitutes in the here and now. Why do you think that is? Am I imagining this?

[wrathofkuus]

That's exactly what we're talking about with the difference in what "respect " means when it's applied to men and to women. They talk about her being respected and respectable due to her chosen career... and yet, you see when you meet Atherton and see them together that they use this word respect, but it does not mean what you think it means.

[Muddled]

Is Atherton the guy that was her date? Yes, he clearly did not respect her. He had bought and paid for her and she was his to do with as he pleased.

But remember how people reacted to her in episode 2 (I think?) when she went down to save Mal after they had stolen the drugs? It's like she's really important somehow. Maybe because she has her own money and, therefore, somewhat chooses her own destiny?

[smock]

Muddled, I think the reaction to her in episode two was different because they were way out on the edges of civilization. I'm guessing everyone respected her there because she looked really wealthy. I'm not sure if she ever mentioned her job, but she was noticeably cleaner and richer than everyone on that colony.

[Muddled]

That is a good point, smock. Hasn't she gotten that reaction elsewhere too? I agree that it is money related.

[smock]

Multiple characters have said that having a companion on Serenity raises up their status, or have implied that she's too good to be on their clunky ship. I definitely get what you're saying about her social status, Muddled, and maybe the point in Shindig was that the uber-rich (i.e. Atherton Wing) are dicks to everyone.

[smock]

*dup*

[wrathofkuus]

It is certainly a high-status occupation on the show, that's for sure. But then in this episode, we see how status doesn't correlate at all to genuine respect, at least not for women. And I think we're supposed to glean from Mal's opinion if her occupation that this disparity between her status and genuine respect isn't isolated to Atherton and his ilk.