Edit: Lutheran church stance puzzles me. Explain.

[sonrisa]

They reprimand their ministers for praying with non Lutherans? Isn't going out and spreading the word of God required in the Lutheran bible?

www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/nyregion/lutheran-pastor-explains-role-in-sandy-hook-interfaith-service.html?hp&_r=0


Can anyone explain why this is okay?

[CheshireGrin]

No, it's okay, a lot of them do suck. My dad's very-Lutheran relatives are constantly not speaking to each other because one of them did something that someone else interpreted as morally wrong. My favorite piece of (possibly apocryphal) family lore is the story of Great-Aunt Cora who supposedly didn't speak to her own brother for about thirty years because he grew a mustache.

When one of my dad's cousins met my (Jewish) mother for the first time, she gushed on and on about how wonderful it was to meet her and how happy they were to welcome her to the family, "but I'm so sorry that we won't be seeing you in Heaven!"

Yeah.

Lutherans are weird. Or at least the ones I'm related to are.

[CheshireGrin]

Of course, my response made more sense before you edited your post. But I get it. ;-)

[lucky513]

Cheshire my mom had a similar experience with my dads catholic family she was raised jw

[sonrisa]

Feb 8, 2013 0:00:27 GMT -5 CheshireGrin said:

Of course, my response made more sense before you edited your post. But I get it. ;-)

Thanks.  I didn't mean to leave you hanging out there but it just was a bit too much for an OP and could be taken wrong.

[Deleted]

I was raised Lutheran and we always had a potluck soup night during lent with the area churches. And our pastor frequently participated in interfaith events in the community. This is odd to me that he was reprimanded.

Also, after 24 years I can still not spell Lutheran correctly the first time ever.

[textbookcase]

I was also raised LCMS and haven't heard of that stance before! Our pastors always participated in interfaith community events as well.

[sydney02]

In the days after the interfaith service, criticism of Mr. Morris mounted within his denomination, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, a 2.3-million-member church that is more conservative theologically than the larger Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.

I know that between the two kinds of Lutherans, Evangelical or Missouri-Synod, that the Missouri-Synod is much more conservative, however, that STILL sounds strange to me. Sounds like it's more of an asshole pastor thing than a Lutheran thing. My mom's old Lutheran church was performing gay marriage ceremonies in their church so I know Lutherans are not all closed minded weirdos like that dude.

[thinkofthesoldiers]

Feb 8, 2013 1:14:52 GMT -5 sydney02 said:

In the days after the interfaith service, criticism of Mr. Morris mounted within his denomination, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, a 2.3-million-member church that is more conservative theologically than the larger Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.

I know that between the two kinds of Lutherans, Evangelical or Missouri-Synod, that the Missouri-Synod is much more conservative, however, that STILL sounds strange to me. Sounds like it's more of an asshole pastor thing than a Lutheran thing. My mom's old Lutheran church was performing gay marriage ceremonies in their church so I know Lutherans are not all closed minded weirdos like that dude.

There are quite a few more synods than just two, just to clear that up. Not sure if that's what you're saying.

[wildfloweragain]

That stinks. My BFF is lutheran, and growing up her church was extremely welcoming to me, and not in a way that tried to get me to convert or make me feel badly for being Catholic. I went to all sorts of their youth activities with her, and then services when people passed away. It was my experience with her lutheran church that prompted me to have a talk with my priest making sure she would be welcomed and bit treated as less-than during my wedding stuff (she was my MOH.)My priest also welcomed anyone to take communion if they want to/do it at their own church, which is not something Catholic churches do, but her lutheran church does. When I explained my feelings my priest agreed.

[penelope]

I grew up in an ELCA Lutheran church, and our youth group always got together with other churches to do activities. There was never any issues like that.

However....Where I live there is another kind of "Lutheran" church. They are the Apostolic Lutherans, and they will not have anything to do with anyone else. In elementary school, right around 1st grade, they tell the other kids that they will not go to heaven because they don't go to their church. (Yeah, one mother and I had real kind words when my youngest came home crying because a child on our block told him that. Real nice words....) They will not play with other kids, they will not partake in any sports or community events, gays will burn in hell, TV will make you burn in hell, women are not allowed to cut their hair or wear pants, nor do they believe in birth control. Thus every family has an average number of kids that is in the double digits. One girl I went to highschool with had 22 brothers and sisters, and her parents had (literally) grandkids that numbered in the hundreds. The whole purpose of a woman is to serve her man and procreate.

My point...there are extreme lutheran churches out there, but I don't think that all Lutherans can be judged by them.

[lissaholly]

I was raised Lutheran, specifically Wisconsin Synod. Wisconsin synod is considered even more conservative than Missouri synod and Evangelical synod is more liberal than Missouri.

This article actually hits on a sore point of mine. I do not remember the exact teachings on interfaith worship but I do know the reasoning behind closed communion which I could see expanded to "closed faith" worship. Closed communion is communion that is only open to those of the same exact faith. The reason behind this being that it is harmful to receive the body of Christ if you do not follow that churches specific understanding of this act. I believe this was Luther's way of making sure everyone read up on his teachings. Pure speculation there;)

That said, I could see this expanded to a more unified worship. That to worship with people who did not believe the same thing as you, or even in the same God, could be harmful to you spiritually because you could be worshiping Other gods and other beliefs.

Lutherans can be very open, friendly, and inviting congregations, but it also important to note that Martin Luther was an intense man who didn't words about how the scripture should be interpreted and how to point out the fallacies in other denominations.

ETA: I do not see this as okay by the way.  I think to choose your religion is to have exposure to other choices.  If your faith is strong enough then an interfaith service, or several for that matter,  shouldn't shake it.

[luckyval]

This comes as a big surprise to me. I grew up in the Lutheran and never knew this was a thing. It's disappointing

[Deleted]

I also grew up Lutheran, but I was ELCA. I do remember hearing about how conservative they were. I remember being told they didn't want anything to do with ELCA. I thought we were different branches of the same religion, but was told they did not believe that. If I recall correctly, they don't allow women to serve as ministers, is that right? Or maybe it was, but it has changed?

I know that our youth group leaders often encouraged us to bring friends to activities, even if they were a different faith. Which around here usually meant Mormon.  

[chickadee77]

I grew up LCMS (and yes, there are several other synods, WI and ELCA being two of which I'm aware). It really depends on the congregation and minister, I've found. My church in TX had very active Haitian and Messianic Jewish ties. Before I was confirmed in my home church (around age 14), we were required to attend churches of other faiths and encouraged to search within ourselves to determine whether the Lutheran Church was truly where our hearts needed to be. However, our senior pastor was a previpus MD and had served in several third world countries, which he openly admitted had broadened his religious views considerably.

That said, we were discouraged from taking communion in other religions' churches, or in participating in any of their sacraments, simply because we weren't fully educated in their beliefs. But "discouraged" is a long way from "prohibated."

Also, I grew up in a family where my dad and his entire side of the family was very Roman Catholic (like Dad had been in the seminary for seven years before marrying Mom, and some of his sisters had been Sisters), and my mom's whole family was very LCMS (ordained ministers, teachers, the whole deal), so my folks had to find a way to make it work.

ETA before someone jumps on me, lol. I know "Haitian" isn't a religion, but I don't recall the predominant religion, so I'm sorry if that was offensive.  On the same note, said "third world countries" were countries which missionaries had not yet reached, and they worshipped in their traditional tribal ways. Our pastor was there ina medical, not a rwligious, capacity.

[runblondie26]

Huh, I never knew much about the Lutheran church until I married DH, and still don't, despite the fact that my step FIL is a Lutheran minister. He's surprisingly liberal, and you'd never know in normal conversation that he was a minister, unless he told you. Maybe because this was a second, later-in-life career for him? IDK They also live on Long Island, which I think contributes to a more progressive line of thinking than some other places in the country.


He's performed interfaith wedding ceremonies for catholic and jewish friends of ours who decided not to have formal church/synogogue weddings. It's also a female pastor that he shares church responsibilites with.

My impression of the Lutheran faith is that it's "Catholocism Light". Not that I have much experience with the Catholic faith either.

[sydney02]

Feb 8, 2013 7:20:21 GMT -5 thinkofthesoldiers said:

Feb 8, 2013 1:14:52 GMT -5 sydney02 said:

I know that between the two kinds of Lutherans, Evangelical or Missouri-Synod, that the Missouri-Synod is much more conservative, however, that STILL sounds strange to me. Sounds like it's more of an asshole pastor thing than a Lutheran thing. My mom's old Lutheran church was performing gay marriage ceremonies in their church so I know Lutherans are not all closed minded weirdos like that dude.

There are quite a few more synods than just two, just to clear that up. Not sure if that's what you're saying.

Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound like there were only two. I know there are several synods. I was just comparing my mom's church (ELCA) to Missouri-Synod. I know the Missouri-Synod tend to lean much more conservative, but I think refusing to perform in an interfaith ceremony is over the top, even for them so I'm blaming the pastor, not the Synod.

Where I used to live though, there were only two kinds of Lutherans, ELCA or LCMS. There was a running joke that a marriage between an ELCA and LCMS Lutheran was an "interfaith" marriage because they were so different. 

[sydney02]

Feb 8, 2013 11:20:13 GMT -5 runblondie26 said:

Huh, I never knew much about the Lutheran church until I married DH, and still don't, despite the fact that my step FIL is a Lutheran minister. He's surprisingly liberal, and you'd never know in normal conversation that he was a minister, unless he told you. Maybe because this was a second, later-in-life career for him? IDK They also live on Long Island, which I think contributes to a more progressive line of thinking than some other places in the country.


He's performed interfaith wedding ceremonies for catholic and jewish friends of ours who decided not to have formal church/synogogue weddings. It's also a female pastor that he shares church responsibilites with.

My impression of the Lutheran faith is that it's "Catholocism Light". Not that I have much experience with the Catholic faith either.

I think region plays a big role. Where I grew up in NJ there were only two Lutheran churches in our area. There was the big church which was Evangelical Lutheran and they were very liberal. They've even performed gay marriage ceremonies. They were very similar to the Episcopal church. The smaller church in our area was LCMS and they were extremely conservative. I never knew anyone personally from the LCMS so I don't know what their views were or if they thought that they were the only ones going to Heaven or some bullshit like that.

I had the same view of Lutheran as you, runblondie with it being "Catholicism Light" because of my experience with my mom's church but apparently that's not the case. It seems like Lutherans vary as much as Baptists do so it really comes down to the individual church itself even more than the synod. 

This is why I love my Episcopal church, lol. 

[sydney02]

Feb 8, 2013 12:54:14 GMT -5 cjoy said:

Feb 8, 2013 12:46:59 GMT -5 sydney02 said:

Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound like there were only two. I know there are several synods. I was just comparing my mom's church (ELCA) to Missouri-Synod. I know the Missouri-Synod tend to lean much more conservative, but I think refusing to perform in an interfaith ceremony is over the top, even for them so I'm blaming the pastor, not the Synod.

Where I used to live though, there were only two kinds of Lutherans, ELCA or ELMS. There was a running joke that a marriage between an ELCA and ELMS Lutheran was an "interfaith" marriage because they were so different. 

The pastor didn't refuse to participate in an interfaith ceremony, he did and then was later forced to apologize by the President of the Synod. So it's not "over the top" for the Synod, it is directly in line with their beliefs.

oh I misread. It still seemed over the top to me, but apparently it isn't.  I was reading the replies in this post and the post on P&CE and the replies range from "I'm surprised" to "I'm not surprised at all" so who knows.