Would you like to be a mass murderer's friend?

[Deleted]

Apparently Norway is looking to hire friends to come play chess or hockey with Anders Breivik because he is to be isolated from all other prisoners. I wonder who would want to do that? Not to judge the people who would volunteer, but generally aren't people still angry at him?
news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/norwegian-prison-may-hire-friends-mass-killer-anders-130546025.html

[popcorn]

I think we'd be so surprised how many people would want to visit him.

Not me, obviously but there are lunatics all over that wouldn't mind having a chat with him. I wonder if they do psych evaluations on people who visit people like this. It really seems like they should.

On another note I just watched an episode of Criminal Minds where the woman was married to a serial killer then when he was executed in prison another man became a copycat of her husband, made a wig for her out of the scalp of a woman he murdered and got caught and sent to jail. At the end of the episode she is visiting him in prison. It's creepy.

[frlcb]

Jun 2, 2012 5:54:32 GMT -5 popcorn said:

I think we'd be so surprised how many people would want to visit him.

Not me, obviously but there are lunatics all over that wouldn't mind having a chat with him. I wonder if they do psych evaluations on people who visit people like this. It really seems like they should.

On another note I just watched an episode of Criminal Minds where the woman was married to a serial killer then when he was executed in prison another man became a copycat of her husband, made a wig for her out of the scalp of a woman he murdered and got caught and sent to jail. At the end of the episode she is visiting him in prison. It's creepy.

Women marry men in prison all the time. There is no limit to how weird humans can be, so this doesn't surprise me at all. Would I do it? No way!

[popcorn]

Well, she married the first guy before knowing he was a serial killer. The second guy actually tried to abduct her and gave her a bloody wig made from his victim's hair! And she still went to see him.

I mean, I know it happens all the time, but those women were usually not involved with the man in any way before he went to jail, right? Guess I don't know that part.

[frlcb]

Jun 2, 2012 6:12:00 GMT -5 popcorn said:

Well, she married the first guy before knowing he was a serial killer. The second guy actually tried to abduct her and gave her a bloody wig made from his victim's hair! And she still went to see him.

I mean, I know it happens all the time, but those women were usually not involved with the man in any way before he went to jail, right? Guess I don't know that part.

Sorry, yes I meant that women in general marry men in prison all the time, they are weird.

[Deleted]

Popcorn, I was thinking the same thing! I hope they do psych evaluations or they will just have more crazies coming in getting ideas from this lunatic.

[Deleted]

This is appalling, people really entertain the thought of providing distraction to a fucking mass killer??? It simply turns my stomach, for the victims and their families especially. There's no such thing as cruel punishment, there's only PUNISHMENT. And basically the tax payers would be paying for some scum to be able to play chess?!? Give me a break.

[bugabean]

I guess it depends on how you feel about two things. 1) Is the point to punish him or to rehabilitate him? and 2) Can he be rehabilitated? Personally, I think if it's possible to turn someone around, that should be the focus. Not punishment. If this is part of plan that could help turn him into a productive member of society, then why wouldn't the tax payers pay for that?

I don't know if I think it's possible for this guy. I really don't. And I doubt he wants to play chess with me any more than I want to play chess with him, as we have, to say the least, completely incompatible philosophies on life. But I don't think this is **necessarily** a guanopsychotic idea. I'd have to know more.

[aMrsin09]

Is this because by segregating him he would essentially be in solitary, and they can't put him in solitary for some legal reason?

While it does seem odd, on the grand scale of serial killers, I would play chess with him over other serial killers. It just seems like his "threat" to me would be MUCH lower than other killers. He has zero interest in harming me, or trying to "get into my head/mess with my mind" etc.

[wise_rita]

JFC, Norway.

J.
F.
C.

[Deleted]

what does JFC mean?

[Wanderista]

He's a sociopath, ie: anti-social personality disorder. There is not a lot that can be done. I'm all for rehabilitating certain criminals, even murderers. His whole brain is wrong though, so no, I don't think there's much to be done. If Norway wants to send people to play chess with him, that's their choice, but he should never be in public again. I have the view that people can make mistakes, but killing dozens of innocent people is not accidental, it's predatory.

This may be unpopular to say but he is kind of like a rabid dog or a dog that attacks people. There are dogs that even Cesar Milan won't rehabilitate, he's like one of those. Frankly, I know Norway won't do it, but I think that in cases like this (not Texas-style), I am for the death penalty. Don't worry, I don't expect anyone else to be, but I really do think that people who commit certain horrible crimes essentially void their status in humanity. Those crimes have to be overwhelmingly horrible, not simple crimes of passion or poverty, but I do think that they exist.

Just because I think that though, doesn't mean that I impose that belief on different legal systems. If Norway wants him to play poker in prison, then they can, but if he's out in 20 yrs with good behavior then something is seriously wrong with their system. And yes, there should be heavy screening and surveillance. They should have guards officiate the matches.

[Deleted]

Wanderista, I think they probably have laws like that more for other criminals so that it isn't inhumane. They have to keep the same laws for him or else it becomes to easy to renegotiate the rights for other prisoners. I honestly don't think he would even enjoy playing with other people, so I think it is an interesting system. If nothing else, by keeping him alive, maybe they can study him and possibly figure out how his brain became poorly wired and maybe be able to prevent something like this from happening in the future by getting psychological help to someone earlier on.

[wise_rita]

Jun 3, 2012 3:43:07 GMT -5 @myblue said:

what does JFC mean?

Jeebus effing Christ

[GilliC]

Warning: Rant coming.

I am getting really tired of the international media getting all indignant over the Norwegian prison system. While I do sometimes think that certain parts are a little too lax, overall I think it's noble that the focus is so much on rehabilitation. Maybe the idea that prison should be punishment intended to frighten people away from committing crimes isn't the best idea. After all, there are so many repeat offenders in other countries, and in the cases where prisoners do finish their sentences and are released, they don't always have the skill set to get on with their lives even if they want to. There are stigmas to overcome and social awkwardness that comes from the prison lifestyle.

I keep seeing these articles written by people who seem indignant that the Norwegian prisons are so nice. "That's nicer than my college dorm room!" "It's like summer camp! Why doesn't everyone try to get sent to jail?!" I just don't understand why this bothers people so much. Especially people outside the country. It's my tax money that's going to support this, so if anyone is going to complain about it, shouldn't it be those of us who are actually paying for it? Why are people in other countries so affronted by this? Are they afraid that because they don't lock people up here for a life of prison rape and possible murder that the Norwegian prisoners who make parole are going to jump the border and rob and pillage the rest of the world?

I'm sure whoever came up with Breivik's treatment is a certified professional, and if they think that normal social interaction is good for him, and someone is willing to do it, is that a bad thing? I have a good friend who is very religious, and he visits a prisoner from his hometown on a regular basis. He feels that forgiveness is an important part of his faith and that he's doing a good thing by sharing his faith with a man who made mistakes. While Breivik probably does suffer from some psychological issues, he's a calm and rational person, and if someone is willing to offer an olive branch in hope of making him a better person, who are we to judge them for it and assume they're crazy themselves?

I'm getting especially tired of the US media's sensationalist coverage of everything. "The World's Poshest Prison" "Breivik Pleads Self-Defense" "Wanted: Best Friends for a Mass Murder" None of them go more than skin-deep in the story, they never explain any of the background, and in the case of the "self-defense" plea they ran around with a horrible translation that was completely misleading if not flat-out wrong!

But I guess it doesn't matter, because at the end of the day the media wants to sell the news, and the consumers want to be indignant about something so that they can feel better about their own world view.v

Rant finished.

[Deleted]

In all fairness, Gilli, I was wondering more about the people who would want to sign up for the job and not so much indignant over the fact that they were trying to find someone to do it, which is why I posted this thread. I am not sure I would know anyone who would be up for playing chess and chatting about the weather with Breivik. It would take a special kind of person to show up and not just punch him in the nose.

I think their prison system is admirable and if the US spent more money on rehabilitating than punishing, then maybe the prisons would be less overcrowded. I would be irritated hearing about it all the time in the international news too.

[Wanderista]

I know that personally I would never "call out" Norway's system in general. I can see how my post might make it seem like I'm "very pro-death penalty", which is really not true. I am definitely generally for rehabilitating criminals whenever possible. I'm also not saying that all sociopathic types should get the death penalty. Actually, a large percentage of long-time prison residents have antisocial personality disorder or schizophrenia. I definitely think that a lot of those should be getting psychiatric treatment.

Frankly, I'm talking about a very small percentage of criminals who are antisocial and who have committed crimes of such an egregious nature that frankly I'm not concerned about what happens to them. I'm not worried about whether or not they are punished sufficiently. Their minds simply don't function like healthy minds, they don't experience grief or remorse like most people do. Whether they sit for years in prison or are executed, they are relatively indifferent about it all.

I remember reading about an absolutely appalling British serial killer in the 1950s who was executed. Throughout the trial covering the rape and murder of a number of innocent women including his own wife in ways that are probably too upseting to repeat here, his only outward concern was whether or not he could have another cigarette. Breivik is not that different. I do agree that there may be some psychological value in studying him to an extent. As far as preventing others from becoming like him, that may be difficult. I do agree that there should always be close monitoring of him and those who would visit him, but the surprising thing is that people who perform horrible crimes like this can enjoy superficial social hobbies. It's not that they hate all social contact, it's that they lack normal feelings like empathy. If they want to rehabilitate him, they'd be better off showing him Bambi or something. Oddly enough too, the solitary confinement would probably be to protect him from other prisoners. It's likely that some violent offenders would take the law into their own hands otherwise.

Anyway, I don't want to seem like I am a gung-ho person for the death penalty. The type of criminals that we're talking about are a small percentage of the population, not garden variety rapists or murderers. Hehe, such a delightful subject! (joking)

[Deleted]

Gilli, I'm sorry if it sounded as if I was singling out Norway's prison system, I actually had no idea there was a mediatic current of criticism against it. Had it been another country, I would have felt the same.

It's admirable that the focus is on rehabilitation in general but I also feel that the line should be drawn somewhere. To announce publicly that the isolation of a terrorist and a mass murderer is becoming a concern is like killing those innocent victims all over again, I think.

This is someone who bombed and carried out a mass shooting, and as much as I think that he shouldn't get executed or tortured etc, I do think he can manage a life without chatting over a game of chess. Respecting those unfortunate deaths would be the noble thing to do, IMO.

This is all, I didn't mean for it to be taken personally, I apologize if I have offended you.

[GilliC]

Oh, no, it wasn't anyone particular. I've just been dealing with this since it happened, and sometimes I just get really frustrated with the media coverage in general.

And for what it's worth, I like the idea that even for Breivik, the prison system is about doing what's best for everyone involved. I seriously doubt the government will let anyone go near him who might be influenced by his white-supremacist rhetoric, so I don't really see the harm in letting him socialize. Just as I don't see the benefit of keeping him in isolation.

I really haven't heard anything about this in the Norwegian news, so it doesn't seem to be making much of a stir over here, so I get the feeling that this was just a case of the US media spinning it to seem like a bigger deal than it is. And that's one of the things that has really irritated me in this whole thing. The Yahoo! article cites VG (without even linking to the original article), which is one of the tabloidy Norwegian newspapers, and it doesn't go into any details. It could just be that they're hiring someone in a general social interaction role for the prison, and VG could have spun it as, "Hey would you like to have the job of hanging out with Breivik," and then the international media pounced on it. Who knows.

From the first day after the event, I have been proud of the reaction here. Although there have been some cries for vengeance, most people simply wanted to understand what happened. People have read and discussed Breivik's manifesto, and the biggest fear was that the event would change people's everyday life. Maybe the rest of the world thinks that Norway is charmingly naive, but I find it refreshing.

[bugabean]

I can't speak for the Norwegian mindset in particular, but I think ideas about things like how to show respect for dead victims varies so much between cultures - at least as much as ideas on how to deal with criminals. Personally, I don't equate trying to prevent someone from going (more?) insane with victims dying all over again.