C/P Wealth Inequality

[isabel]

Stealing this from CEP. Since it's MM and all. This is incredible!

[Deleted]

It's sad. I knew it was bad but not *that* extreme.

[LoveTrains]

I don't know what the solution is, but I think we can all agree that this is kind of messed up. At least I hope we can. I would be curious to know what those on the far right think about this chart. Is this an acceptable society for some folks to live in?

[isabel]

LoveTrains, I would love to know what the upper 10% think as well. I work for a lot of them actually. I wonder how inappropriate it would be to ask them their thoughts on this.

[LoveTrains]

Mar 4, 2013 14:57:35 GMT -5 isabel said:

LoveTrains, I would love to know what the upper 10% think as well. I work for a lot of them actually. I wonder how inappropriate it would be to ask them their thoughts on this.

I actually think lots of us on this board probably qualify for the top 10%, which is the part that I find truly frightening. Like if I "feel poor" half the time, what must it be like to actually be poor? It is something that I can't even truly imagine because I have been very fortunate my entire life, and I hope that doesn't sound douchey or come out wrong.

I work with lots of people in the top 1%. I know some people that are very, very liberal in that group and then I also know some folks that are very, very conservative. 

[rubytue]

I'm on the app and can't see anything. Is this the video linked here: mashable.com/2013/03/02/wealth-inequality/ ? I almost posted it earlier but couldn't think of much to say. Other than its not surprising. And explains how ppl on MM can say they feel middle class or lower despite a high income.

[phunluvin82]

Wow.

[hocus]

I think this story would benefit from analysis over the overall size of the economy from the 70's to now and from an understanding on inflation. I'm be more interested to know if the amount of income that the bottom 50% is earning is staying flat/dropping/growing after adjusting for inflation. Or to put it another is the implied shift in the graph from the 70's in wealth resulting from the rich taking a larger portion of a relatively fixed pie or are the rich simply making the overall pie bigger each year. I'm probably not explaining this well but I think that the graph is telling a grimmer picture of wealth than is really true and/or that the 70's (which is the baseline they implicitly use, but may not be the most reverent) had more extremes that they have led us to believe.

Overall though what would be really interesting would be to see this graph for the last 200 years or so. I bet is ebbs and flows to some degree based on perceived notions of fairness. You'd see a spike in the era of robber barons and a fall after there were laws in place to limit their power.

[isabel]

Mar 4, 2013 15:01:18 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

Mar 4, 2013 14:57:35 GMT -5 isabel said:

LoveTrains, I would love to know what the upper 10% think as well. I work for a lot of them actually. I wonder how inappropriate it would be to ask them their thoughts on this.

I actually think lots of us on this board probably qualify for the top 10%, which is the part that I find truly frightening. Like if I "feel poor" half the time, what must it be like to actually be poor? It is something that I can't even truly imagine because I have been very fortunate my entire life, and I hope that doesn't sound douchey or come out wrong.

I work with lots of people in the top 1%. I know some people that are very, very liberal in that group and then I also know some folks that are very, very conservative. 

That's a good point. I wish the video gave an idea of what the salary ranges are for the various groups. I'm curious which one I technically fall into. I would laugh if I was actually in the top 10% even though it's a possibility.

[Deleted]

Mar 4, 2013 15:01:18 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

Mar 4, 2013 14:57:35 GMT -5 isabel said:

LoveTrains, I would love to know what the upper 10% think as well. I work for a lot of them actually. I wonder how inappropriate it would be to ask them their thoughts on this.

I actually think lots of us on this board probably qualify for the top 10%, which is the part that I find truly frightening. Like if I "feel poor" half the time, what must it be like to actually be poor? It is something that I can't even truly imagine because I have been very fortunate my entire life, and I hope that doesn't sound douchey or come out wrong.

I work with lots of people in the top 1%. I know some people that are very, very liberal in that group and then I also know some folks that are very, very conservative. 

Yes, I feel the same way! Which makes me think that the real income gap isn't between the 99 vs. 1% but the top .5% or .01% and everybody else. That's why I thought the last graphic was so interesting and they couldn't even show the richest guy's wealth on the graph vertically.

[LoveTrains]

I found this calculator and popped in my 2012 AGI - it told me my household income put me in the top 10% of households.

www.kiplinger.com/tool/taxes/T055-S001-your-tax-burden-calculator/index.php

Now I don't know how accurate that is as its just one way to measure wealth - by income reported to the IRS - but its a place to start to see where you sit. I am not sure the other categories it will spit out depending on what you put in.

[aurora]

You can find where you rank for income (not wealth, which is the video's metric) at

blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/19/what-percent-are-you/

(it's a little out of date, but how much could have changed in 1.5 years?) The top 10% make more than $160k (for a household).

[aurora]

Mar 4, 2013 15:24:28 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

I found this calculator and popped in my 2012 AGI - it told me my household income put me in the top 10% of households.

www.kiplinger.com/tool/taxes/T055-S001-your-tax-burden-calculator/index.php

Now I don't know how accurate that is as its just one way to measure wealth - by income reported to the IRS - but its a place to start to see where you sit. I am not sure the other categories it will spit out depending on what you put in.

Interesting - the Kiplinger tool puts the $160k I got from WSJ into the top 5%, not top 10%.

Either way, I'm sure quite a few people who post on this board are in the top 10% for income (maybe not wealth).

[msmerymac]

Mar 4, 2013 15:10:21 GMT -5 isabel said:

Mar 4, 2013 15:01:18 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

I actually think lots of us on this board probably qualify for the top 10%, which is the part that I find truly frightening. Like if I "feel poor" half the time, what must it be like to actually be poor? It is something that I can't even truly imagine because I have been very fortunate my entire life, and I hope that doesn't sound douchey or come out wrong.

I work with lots of people in the top 1%. I know some people that are very, very liberal in that group and then I also know some folks that are very, very conservative. 

That's a good point. I wish the video gave an idea of what the salary ranges are for the various groups. I'm curious which one I technically fall into. I would laugh if I was actually in the top 10% even though it's a possibility.

www.whatsmypercent.com/

If you select "all qualifiers" the top 10% starts at $155k. Which is pretty low, IMO. For married couples it starts around $195k. 

[awkwardpenguin]

Kiplingers uses AGI, WSJ uses total household income.

Top 10% of the income distribution is above $155k a year. Top 10% of the wealth distribution is a net worth of $1M or higher.

[msmerymac]

It looks like $800k+ is the threshold for the top 1%? However, I've heard that people who make over 1 million per year are more likely to make that from capital gains than from wages. (Hence the point in the video about how the top 1% own 50% of stocks and bonds in the US).

[awkwardpenguin]

Mar 4, 2013 15:34:14 GMT -5 @blessed said:

How many people make up the top 1%? And yeah I'd definitely be curious to know their thoughts.

3,140,000 people, or 1,150,000 households.  1% of a huge country is a pretty sizeable chunk of people.

[LoveTrains]

Mar 4, 2013 15:56:28 GMT -5 kooshball said:

And yet folks here still think they are lower middle class making 6 figures.

LOL.

H doesn't believe that we are upper middle class - he thinks we are MC. I told him angryharpy's analogy of hotels (ie, UMC would stay at a westin, MC or LMC would stay at a hampton inn) and he didn't believe me. And yet he told me that the la quinta we stayed at was "sketchy" (it wasn't) and from now on he is only staying at Kimptons. 

[imojoebunny]

You cannot fix this without socialized medicine IMO. When people making $10 an hour cannot get health insurance through the government if they make $20 an hour, but it is not offered or is too expensive through their employer, they cannot get ahead. Lack of health insurance that is affordable is a disincentive to earn more or to save, in addition it is almost impossible to save if you have crappy insurance or no insurance, even if your pretty healthy. It impacts those earning $20 an hour more than anyone. Sure, the rich people could cut their salaries and make it more fair at companies, but ultimately health care cost prevent people in the middle from being able to save or pass on assets from generation to generation.

[Deleted]

Mar 4, 2013 16:00:10 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

Mar 4, 2013 15:56:28 GMT -5 kooshball said:

And yet folks here still think they are lower middle class making 6 figures.

LOL.

H doesn't believe that we are upper middle class - he thinks we are MC. I told him angryharpy's analogy of hotels (ie, UMC would stay at a westin, MC or LMC would stay at a hampton inn) and he didn't believe me. And yet he told me that the la quinta we stayed at was "sketchy" (it wasn't) and from now on he is only staying at Kimptons. 

I had to yell at my husband twice in the past two weeks about harping on about how poor he is.  I particularly liked when he said he didn't know his credit score and doesn't want to know it, because his salary is so low that he can't possibly have a high credit score (which is wrong on several levels).

[Deleted]

I think this infographic is referring to the "wealth" of the top 1%, not income, which according to the WSJ starts at around 8 million.

[Deleted]

Mar 4, 2013 16:06:21 GMT -5 imojoebunny said:

You cannot fix this without socialized medicine IMO. When people making $10 an hour cannot get health insurance through the government if they make $20 an hour, but it is not offered or is too expensive through their employer, they cannot get ahead. Lack of health insurance that is affordable is a disincentive to earn more or to save, in addition it is almost impossible to save if you have crappy insurance or no insurance, even if your pretty healthy. It impacts those earning $20 an hour more than anyone. Sure, the rich people could cut their salaries and make it more fair at companies, but ultimately health care cost prevent people in the middle from being able to save or pass on assets from generation to generation.

Because that is working so well in other countries?  What is your reasoning?

[sillygoosegirl]

We're in the top 10% by income (not by net worth--yet--we're young), and I think it's nuts. On the other hand, if I agree to do my job for less money, that isn't going to translate to higher pay for the janitors and secretaries, and it isn't going to mean our product is available cheaper. It's likely to mean higher profits and higher dividends for share holders, maybe a bigger raise for my manager who would then be running an equally productive team with less money, or a higher salary for the CEO for the same reason.

That's efficiency for you. It should not be confused with morality.