NDR: Just need to write (long: (non)religion, dad, cancer)

[Deleted]

I'm visiting home, 3K miles away, w/out DH, because my dad is recouping from prostate surgery.  Great news from the Drs. all around.  Yea!  

My dad's OCD (like the kind that has a routine he has to do before he can leave the house, etc.), and that's very difficult to live with sometimes.  But he's also a rock, and put me through school, went with my mom to every school event, etc.  I have a lot of reasons to be really grateful that he's my dad.  There is the side of his personality that is completely unbending and sort of emotionally, I don't know, cold?  I know he loves me, but it's in a different sort of way than a lot of other "great dads."

My mother did most of the hands-on raising of us and raised us Southern Baptist.  Let's just say I don't care for religion at all.  My dad never went to church when I was growing up.  After I had my epiphany that I didn't have to participate, I really respected that about him, that he told my mom to mind her own business about it, because she doesn't take no for an answer easily.  And not being religious in the South can be a brave move.  However, he's started going to the Presbyterian church, his childhood church, in the last 6 months (before he found out about the cancer).  Fine with me, whatever makes him happy.

My mom and I dealt with the religious thing a while back and have sort of a truce;  we leave each other alone.  I'm sure her Sunday School class prays for me on a weekly basis; whatever.  But this morning my dad knocks on my door first thing in the morning and says "Can you do me a favor this morning?"  And I'm like  'cause that never happens.  He said "I want you to go to church with me; I don't want to go by myself."  It was like the worst pop quiz ever.  I want to be supportive of my dad, who just had fucking cancer.  He loves nothing more than showing off "his girls" to other people, so I'm sure he wanted to do some of that to all the people at the church.  But is this his way of just trying to convert me like my mother always used to?  And really, (a) service would be torture for me; I can barely contain my eyerolling and (b) I have zero interest in possibly seeing anyone I grew up with or being paraded around in front of his friends.  It's a small town and the chance of running into people we know is high, especially at church.  So I said "I don't have any church clothes with me," (not strictly true) "and I don't want to go," (understatement of the year).  He left the room without saying anything else and wouldn't even look at me when he left.

So now I'm sitting here vacillating between "You are seriously the worst daughter to ever walk the planet," and "You have a right to say no to something." He usually doesn't frame things as asking me FOR something; it's always, "Do you want to go over to the Humane Society and walk the dogs with me?"  or "Do you want to go eat at [restaurant where I eat nothing on the menu]?"  I know he will be terribly disappointed if I say no, so I always say yes.  Because of the phrasing, this request seems like it was extra important to him.  However, he has no compunction about telling me "no" 85% of the time when I ask if we can do something he doesn't want to do.  For example, we were visiting my grandmother Fri. night, and I asked him if we could all go to dinner, I was starving, and he said no.  It wasn't part of his "vision" for the evening, and part of his OCD (this is me just guessing after 32 years of observance) is that he has to be in control ALL the time.  Also, if I had asked him to go to a Muslim service with me (just an example), he would strongly disapprove, and I'd never hear the end of it.

How can such a simple exchange bring up such a huge raft of issues?  If his question had been "would you come sit with me while I pray?" or "would you go to the St. Patty's fest downtown with me?" NO problem.  But I think the religious plus the social part of it together were just more than I'm capable of giving.  I guess the motive of the question is bothering me.  Is it because he thinks I need some religion, like my mother, in which case, fuck off.  Or is it because he wanted to spend time with me and show me off, in which case I'm a shitty daughter .

Any words of wisdom from the two still reading?

[finally]

Wow, that's a tough one and I feel for you on it.  Having what I think are similar religious views as you, I probably would have declined going and then also had tremendous guilt about it.  But he needs to respect your views/feelings too.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer and hope that he was only asking you to go to share something with you and show you off - not to convert you but not knowing for sure is hard to say - you can't convert someone in one outing. 

I am not sure how long you are staying with your family but hope you can do something else meaningful together and talk about what happened so that it does not bother you for a long time.

[treedimensional]

If you could fast forward 40 years, and look back on this situation, what do you think you'd wish you did?
Would it be more important that you stood your ground on a temporary issue that has no bearing on your religious beliefs (as you have indicated), but will likely have an enormous and lasting impact on your father?

[heygrey]

You'll only know his motive if you have a conversation with him. Is that a possibility?

We don't disagree about church, but there have been other things my parents have asked me to do when I'm home that I'd really rather not. Events where it's painfully boring, I don't know (or maybe don't like) the people there, but I go. I figure part if being an adult is occasionally sucking it up and doing things that aren't super fun especially if it means so much to someone I love. I can do anything for an hour or two and pretend to not be miserable.

[Deleted]

Oh believe me, in every other way I suck it up and put on a happy face. Town events I'd rather not go to? Check. Sporting events? Check. Celtic women concerts? Check. Listening to Rush Limbaugh a few hours a day? Check. Part of the reason I'm struggling is that I never, ever say "no." If I did it more often, I probably wouldn't find it so guilt-inducing.

Having a conversation with my father is not an option. The other day I said something he didn't want to hear and he pretended like he didn't hear what I said. Like I said, his way or no way.

[heygrey]

Do your parents ask a lot if you when you aren't there or check to see what decisions you're making when you're home with your husband?

I guess I've reached a point where I don't feel like I have to set boundaries with my parents because I only see them once or twice a year at best. I dont have to exert my independence and say no because I get to live exactly as I please without any weird requests 49+ weeks out of the year. I talk to my parents all the time, but they never meddle in my life away from them. On the flip side, I have a friend who lives away from her parents and they are constantly suggesting things she should do/not do, pre-emptively giving their opinions on things when she hasn't asked for advice. She had to constantly draw the line with them because they will continue to run her life forever if she gives an inch.

[Deleted]

Oh, no, they aren't meddlers at all. My relationship with them sounds very similar to yours. I usually only come home at Christmas, and they come to visit in the spring/summer. I don't think it's a parents/boundary issue for me. It really is religion. Combined with not enjoying social gatherings. And feeling like I say "Yes" in everything else when we are together, which is, admittedly, not much.

So, in summary, I probably do suck since evidently my hatred of religion and people combined outweighs my sense of duty to my father. Is it any excuse that I was woken up by the pop quiz and didn't have time to think it through?

On the bright side, my sister showed up just as soon as everyone got back from church, so she's providing some nice cover.

[emjacobs]

Can you sit down with him and have a talk with him that you have a different feeling about religion and aren't comfortable being in a church but you would would really like to sit and talk and pray with your father personally.

My dad is not very outwardly involving emotions etc which I think is similar to your father. If I were in this situation I would go, but I don't have a negative feeling towards organized religion just waking up early for church.

[Deleted]

Mar 17, 2013 11:00:44 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

If you could fast forward 40 years, and look back on this situation, what do you think you'd wish you did?
Would it be more important that you stood your ground on a temporary issue that has no bearing on your religious beliefs (as you have indicated), but will likely have an enormous and lasting impact on your father?

I have to agree with this. This is wise advice.
I love my parents and we have a great relationship. Still they ask me to do a lot of inheritently harmless stuff (sometimes with an agenda) I don't necessarily care for, want to do, be paraded around with their friends.

 Life is short. I've had 5 big losses in 5 years which has taught me quick no one will be around for ever so shut and up do it if it makes them happy. Spending time with them on something they like is better than no time at all. I can do things and not necessarily have to believe them to the letter. I've also learned my parents are proud of me, so when they take me out and show me off or want me to share in part of their lives, it's hwo they care.  

H and I are like this about church too. He loves it, is deeply religious etc. I'm spiritual but not to the church's extent of the letter. It's important to him, it's time well spent with him, so I do it. I don't want to and have to hide the eyerolls sometimes, but the good outweighs the bad.

[Deleted]

I think you are making too big a deal over this. He probably just wants to spend time with you, not convert you to his beliefs. It's not always all about us and what we want. Think about all the things your parents did for you when you were growing up that they probably had zero desire to do but did it anyway because they love you.

[Deleted]

Thanks for all the thoughts. It's been sitting with me all day. I've decided what bothers me is I really do think he knows how I feel about it (my mom knows, and if my mom knows, he knows) and knew exactly what he was doing with his phrasing. And I'm upset that along with attempting to manipulate me into something I detest, he feels so free to refuse to do things I ask to do. It all seems very one-sided. But after mulling over it for the day, I'm not sorry that I didn't go.

[simpsongal]

Don't beat yourself up over it. True, part of the adult-parent relationship is sucking it up and doing things to indulge your folks. But the other part is moving on and forgetting little arguments and awkward interactions (whatever the subtext or meaning). You'll know if it's forgettable in the next few days (or next visit). I hope that it is so you can avoid an uncomfortable situation. Maybe your dad will respect the line you drew? If he brings it up again I would probably emphasize that you didn't want to see the townspeople at the service.

[Susie]

Mar 17, 2013 10:36:49 GMT -5 @juno said:

My mom and I dealt with the religious thing a while back and have sort of a truce;  we leave each other alone.  I'm sure her Sunday School class prays for me on a weekly basis; whatever.  But this morning my dad knocks on my door first thing in the morning and says "Can you do me a favor this morning?"  And I'm like  'cause that never happens.  He said "I want you to go to church with me; I don't want to go by myself."  It was like the worst pop quiz ever.  I want to be supportive of my dad, who just had fucking cancer.  He loves nothing more than showing off "his girls" to other people, so I'm sure he wanted to do some of that to all the people at the church.  But is this his way of just trying to convert me like my mother always used to?  And really, (a) service would be torture for me; I can barely contain my eyerolling and (b) I have zero interest in possibly seeing anyone I grew up with or being paraded around in front of his friends.  It's a small town and the chance of running into people we know is high, especially at church.  So I said "I don't have any church clothes with me," (not strictly true) "and I don't want to go," (understatement of the year).  He left the room without saying anything else and wouldn't even look at me when he left.

I admit I'm doing a little eye rolling of my own at this part.  Waterboarding is torture.  Sitting through a religious service that you aren't on board with is annoying, and an annoyance that you can always just opt to zone out on at that.

I identify as agnostic at best, and don't attend church.  But when we're hosting my parents for religious holidays (Christmas) we go with them to mass.  When we spend Easter with Calvin's parents, we end up going to their church (which is a different religion from the one I was raised in).  Is it where I want to be?  No.  Do I feel a little uncomfortable?  Sure, absolutely.  Even if I might feel a little like rolling my eyes at times, sometimes being an adult means keeping a hold of it for an hour for someone else's benefit.  As for having "zero interest" in being paraded around, that's ok too.  I share that lack of interest.  But I still try to be kind, and indulge it a little (mostly my ILs do it, more so than my own parents).  Not everything is about me and my interest.

It sounds like you have way too much balled up into this, and you're making it into something that it isn't.  His request doesn't sound like it was about you, it was about him.  I really don't think he was trying to "convert" you. 

It sounds like the situation that you are in - visiting them cross country without your H - is just kind of overwhelming for you right now.  You're fresh out of patience for his OCD tendencies, and maybe ready to go home?  It's ok to have arrived there.  I sure have, after some stays helping my mom through her ovarian cancer treatment over the past couple years.  I would just suggest that you try to not to beat yourself up about it, but get yourself out of that situation and home, if that's what you need in order to take a step back, before you say something you might regret.  There may be some perspective to be found.  This doesn't seem to me like a hill to die on.

[downtoearth]

I admit I didn't read all the responses, but it's probably ok to have declined. If he asks again someday just say, "Oh, it sounds important to you. How about we compromise and I'll go for a walk and meet you after the service so we can catch-up with some of your friends."

I think that shows that you acknowlege that he finds that important and you're willing to accomodate him a little, but that you aren't interested in doing the religion part of things.

[sailorgray]

I agree with Susie. I think that sometimes you just have to suck it up and do what you don't want to do out of respect for others. I am having this same argument with my 3 year old.

[Deleted]

Mar 18, 2013 12:29:12 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

I admit I didn't read all the responses, but it's probably ok to have declined. If he asks again someday just say, "Oh, it sounds important to you. How about we compromise and I'll go for a walk and meet you after the service so we can catch-up with some of your friends."

I think that shows that you acknowlege that he finds that important and you're willing to accomodate him a little, but that you aren't interested in doing the religion part of things.

I really really like this.  Perfect solution.  

I don't know.  I think saying yes 99% of the time has entitled me to the occasional no.  I do appreciate all the thoughts.  It's helped me think it through and come to the conclusion that I'm content with my response.  In better news, he's speaking to me today after pretending I didn't exist all day yesterday.  I am going home tomorrow, but this has been a short trip compared to our other visits, and my visits home almost never involve DH, so I don't think that's it.  

[katie4253]

I don't want to minimize this, as it is clear you are struggling, but my honest first response was, "just go"

I don't think this is the hill to die on with your dad.  Plus, if you are weighing this so heavily, clearly you have your own opinions and can easily say no even if this is a conversion tactic. 

IMO this just isn't worth the energy you are spending on it right now.  Unless there is more that I don't understand.