Advice for my friend who wants to leave her husband?

[vampsterdam]

 I don't even really know where to start with giving out information, but I'll give it a shot. She also knows I'm posting this here in hopes of being able to give her some advice.

My friend is in her late twenties and has 3 kids (3 months, 3 1/2, and 5) and has been married for maybe 6 years? She has had an up and down relationship with her husband and is finally deciding she wants to leave. She's realizing that he's a nice guy, but they're not meant for each other.

He doesn't ever help with chores in the evening because he says that's her job as a SAHM. He never changes diapers, never gives the kids a bath, etc. He also won't even watch the kids even if she has to run to the grocery store. He constantly complains about what's for dinner (if he doesn't like what she made, he'll run to McDonalds). He likes to sit at home and told her he hates going out (whether it's dinner, shows, or any time of vacation). She also said that his anger issues are starting to make her miserable around her kids. If he feels she didn't "clean enough" he'll do something like only load HIS dishes in the dishwasher, and have her wash the dishes she and the kids used by hand. I can keep going with this, but I think you guys get the point.

Well, the problem is she had her first kid right out of college. She had experience working retail, working as a nanny, working with kids in hospitals and volunteering at a pet shelter. Besides that, she hasn't had a "real" job. She pretty much has no money.

Her mom supports her leaving and would allow her to move in, but her dad is saying he doesn't support it (she's not sure why, she was too emotional to find out why). She's heartbroken now. She wouldn't mind working somewhere like the mall, but she doesn't think that would cover daycare costs. Also, the husband is pretty much against her working. When she said she was thinking of going back to work one day, he said he would quit his job and she would have to support the family.

She's trying to save up enough money so she can leave him, but man, I don't know what she can do.

Also, her husband told her, "Just so you know, if you ever leave me, nobody in their right mind would date you with the 3 kids." Ugh.

Does anyone know if she can temporarily get public aid or something?

I wish I could help her more : / (and yes, I've offered she could stay at my place, but there's not much room)

[Deleted]

I have no advice, but I feel terrible for your friend. What an awful situation.

[calledout]

My SAHM step-sister was in a similar position in that she was trying to find a job that would pay her more than daycare expenses. I suggested that she consider working at a preschool or daycare. Oftentimes, the teachers will receive free or greatly discounted tuition for the kids. Maybe while she's still married she could look into some sort of online coursework for Early Childhood education certification? She could tell her H that now that the kids are 3 and 5, she wants to start thinking about what she'll do when they go off to school and is thinking about working part-time at the daycare. He might go for that? Alternatively, maybe her mom would agree to pay for the classes so her H never has to know about them.

To the extent that she wants to continue working in retail, she should see if gets any bites at assistant-manager / manager type positions.  She'd likely be salaried and eligible for benefits and could probably move up the corporate chain within a year or so.  I have 2 friends who were managers of retail stores at the mall and both earned 70k. 

[fluffaluff]

He sounds emotionally abusive and she needs to get out..at least separated, if he's willing to do a lot of counseling.
Is there a local workforce or temp. Agency that could help her out? Could her mom watch the kids for a couple of weeks so she can have time to look for jobs/housing, etc.? I think you should just start by looking up resources in the area that would be available to her..help her apply for benefits for food, medical, housing, childcare, etc. and look up agencies that can help her with finding a job.

[cst2cst]

He sounds controlling and emotionally abusive. Of course he is telling her that no one else will want her, that's how abusers emotionally blackmail their partners into staying. All of the acts you described are his efforts to control her actions, she obviously can't go to work if it means that he will quit his job as she wouldn't be able to support the family. That's exactly why he said it.

I would suggest she call a DV hotline for advice on leaving. They would know the resources available in her area and can help her make a plan. I worry that his behavior will escalate when she leaves and she needs to protect herself and her children.

[Deleted]

What a horrible situation. Well first, she's not on the hook for all of the daycare money is she? If she leaves, he'll have to help her figure out how to pay for childcare. Does he make enough to float part of it? Alternatively, if she doesn't move in with her parents, could they at least help her pay for part of her childcare expenses until she gets back on her feet?

She just needs to keep applying for jobs everywhere. Are she and the husband in counseling? Is there any hope of him seeing the error of his ways / any other part of their relationship worth salvaging?

[lilybug]

Her situation is verrrrry close to mine. Deciding to split while you're a SAHM with small kids SUCKS.

Luckily, my H knows that he's totally in the wrong and our separation / impending divorce is amicable. Your friend's H sounds like he might make things hard for her.

I don't know much about public assistance, but it's worth looking into. One option I explored was possibly babysitting a kid or two at my house - make some money, no daycare costs. She should also figure out times that she can get free childcare from family - maybe on weekends or evenings - and apply for jobs with those hours.

Honestly, if her H isn't going to let her have their house, I would encourage her to talk more with her parents about moving in. It sounds like she's better off leaving sooner than later, and going from 0 income to paying for moving costs + rent + daycare is nearly impossible, unfortunately. I wish her the best, I really feel for her.

[cheeseandcrackers]

God, that sounds like a TERRIBLE situation to be in.

[awick14]

All I can offer are hugs. And you sound like a great friend.

[vampsterdam]

May 1, 2013 9:35:43 GMT -5 @lcap said:

What a horrible situation. Well first, she's not on the hook for all of the daycare money is she? If she leaves, he'll have to help her figure out how to pay for childcare. Does he make enough to float part of it? Alternatively, if she doesn't move in with her parents, could they at least help her pay for part of her childcare expenses until she gets back on her feet?

She just needs to keep applying for jobs everywhere. Are she and the husband in counseling? Is there any hope of him seeing the error of his ways / any other part of their relationship worth salvaging?

 They usually have a talk and he starts crying and saying they will work on things. Things are good for maybe a month or two, but then he goes back to his ways. She said it's a very tiring cycle.

She also said, even if he was better with taking care of the kids, she feels like that he has no interests/hobbies besides doing things at home. She wants to do things like go to Europe, go to a mueseum, go out for drinks. Maybe once in a great while, he'll give in, but again, she said it's exhausting.

She also has considered going back to school, but he doesn't understand why she would "waste money". It was a big deal that she took a foreign language class at the local community college (for fun) but he only "allowed" it because her mom watched the kids 2x a week. 

[ECB]

He's a nice guy?  Really?  With everything else you said about him, really?

Honestly, I think she needs to stop looking for the "good" in him and she needs to go talk to her dad and REALLY lay out what's been going on.  I agree- he sounds emotionally abusive.  But if she's trying to play up this "he's a nice guy, but.....", her dad may think she's giving up too easily, or what have you.  But if he knows what an ass this guy is being to his daughter, maybe he'll come around and be supportive.

[madringal]

I am sorry she is going through this, you sound like a good friend to be helping her. I would suggest having her apply for bank teller postions. They are a great "retail" job that doesn't have terrible mall hours. Most big banks offer great pay and insurance right away. Part time postions can be very flexible.

[Deleted]

She needs to consult a lawyer ASAP.

People like to threaten all kinds of things - however the law may not agree they can do whatever they're threatening. So she needs to know what she can do and also what she's entitled to (i.e. spousal AND child support)

[vampsterdam]

May 1, 2013 9:50:23 GMT -5 ECB said:

He's a nice guy?  Really?  With everything else you said about him, really?

Honestly, I think she needs to stop looking for the "good" in him and she needs to go talk to her dad and REALLY lay out what's been going on.  I agree- he sounds emotionally abusive.  But if she's trying to play up this "he's a nice guy, but.....", her dad may think she's giving up too easily, or what have you.  But if he knows what an ass this guy is being to his daughter, maybe he'll come around and be supportive.

 We actually knew him in HS and he was fun and really nice. Maybe she still thinks about that?

Yeah, last night I told her she NEEDS to talk to her dad to find out why he's not supporting the divorce. She's afraid he probably thinks, "She dug her own grave by marrying him young", but even if that's the case, she needs to try to explain her situation. I agree with you. I think as of right now, her mom just told her dad what was going on. Maybe if he hears it from here, it might change.

[thebamker]

he doesn't sound like a nice guy.

[calledout]

As far as things with her dad goes, she might get some better mileage if she gives her parents a timeline. Like, "I am going to leave and I need somewhere to stay for 6 months while I get back on my feet. Here is what I plan to do..." If the dad knows that (a) the separation is going to happen whether he agrees or not; and (b) that his assistance is finite, he might be more receptive.

Also, I agree with the suggestions to call a DV shelter and a lawyer (actually, the DV shelter will likely be able to help with a low-cost lawyer). She needs a plan in place - that her parents or some other trustworthy person is aware of - that she can execute on a moment's notice when the time is right. If she gives her H a "heads up," I'd be afraid for what he might do - physicially, financially, the whle shebang.

[sparkythelawyer]

She could start doing some college classes on line, and get some education and training under her belt?

This guy is who he is, and is not going to change. Dad is not going to help her. She is going to have to figure out how to help herself, which sucks a bunch.

[Deleted]

How much money does her husband make? If he has a high income, she might get enough in child and spousal support to make ends meet. She really needs to go talk to a lawyer to see how much she is likely to get each month. With child support, alimony, and student loans, she might be able to go back to school. Providing childcare to a couple of kids in her home might be a good option, too. She likely will need to take advantage of her mom's offer to move back home.

[wrathofkuus]

I'd advise her to look for someone other than her parents to stay with temporarily.

[ECB]

On the "nice guy" front - sure, he was once a nice guy. And I'm sure he presently can pull out that act. But the truth is he isn't. They have THREE kids and he does nothing to help her w/ the kids OR with the house.  That's not the makings of a "nice guy".   Then the passive aggressive crap of only putting his stuff in the washer, and what he SAYS to her.....

I'm focusing on this only in that I think SHE needs to focus on this.  I get it- she married him and had 3 kids with him.  I'm sure she doesn't want to believe that SHE is capable of making such a poor choice in a life partner AND father of her kids.   But people change, for one (meaning him from a nice guy to an ass), and/or once "real life" came into play, she finally saw his real side.  People can and do put on acts. 

But I'm sure a part of the "nice guy" aspect is that SHE wants to believe that this is all it really is.  That they just aren't good for each other.  I'm sure she doesn't want to admit that she invested a LOT into a guy who is just simply an asshole.

I don't know her dads reasons for not being supportive, but again, I would HOPE if her dad REALLY knew what was going on and what an ass her DH is, he'd come around. 

[Deleted]

Re: temporary housing, she may not have to leave (with the three kids). As the primary caregiver she may very well be legally entitled to stay in the home and HE needs to find alternative housing during a seperation.

But again, only a lawyer can tell her if this possible.

[vampsterdam]

May 1, 2013 10:48:35 GMT -5 @cse1960 said:

Does she not have access to actual funds? Is he controlling all the money?

They do have joint credit cards, but he monitors everything. I think she said any time she spends over $200, he gets an alert. (Which, I know a lot of people have it set up that way for fraud protection, but he has called her before to say, "What? You just spent that much money at Whole Foods?"

Thanks for all this information everyone. I hope she finds a (good) solution. She said it sucks having to pretend she's happy/everything's okay when she really wants to leave. She's scared the day of her getting to leave may be years away.

I should also add that he made her sign a pre-nup. I can't remember the details of that though (his family has a very large trust fund).

And yes, to answer others, she DOES have a college education.

[Deleted]

3 children can be cause to challenge a pre-nup.

Or one could say the 3 children have nothing to do with the pre-nup their mother signed.

But again, lawyer can answer that. Tell her to bring a copy to the consult.

[wannabe]

this is not a nice guy. this is a controlling fuckhead.

[Deleted]

If he feels she didn't "clean enough" he'll do something like only load HIS dishes in the dishwasher, and have her wash the dishes she and the kids used by hand.

Read more: pandce.proboards.com/thread/171279/advice-friend-wants-leave-husband##ixzz2S3tikOsx

WHAT?  That sounds like a parent punishing a child!

[sunshineray]

I didn't read all the responses so I apologize if this has already been mentioned. As far as childcare goes, is there any sort of state program she could apply for? I know here in Florida we have 4C which helps pay for child care for lower income families. It's such a tough place to be when you need to work to live, but can't afford to go to work.

I agree that she needs to take whatever support she can get from her mom. I've been in a similar situation and had gone back to work just prior to leaving my ex. I found a reasonably priced daycare for my DD and ex had to pay half of it. Even if he threatens to quit his job if she got one, I'd still go out and get one if I were here. Chances are he's just being a manipulative asshole and wouldn't really do it. I know she's probably terrified but she needs to call his bluff and assert some control here.

Is there any possibility that he could get violent? I agree that she should contact a DV hotline who can point her in the right direction and reassure her that she has options. No matter what he says, the state will force him to pay child support/child care expenses and since she is currently a SAHM she can start applying and doing research while he's at work.

So, in bullet form, this is what I suggest:

- Call a DV hotline, she should be prepared with specific questions
- Open her own checking account, even though she doesn't have any income (maybe her mom can lend her $50 to open it with)
- Get a cheap, pre paid cell phone and don't tell him about it
- Apply for state aid (food stamps, medicaid, childcare programs)
- Put important docs in a safe place all together (all birth certificates, social security cards, passports, etc.)
- Take a deep breath and stop believing everything he tells her.

He is an abuser. He belittles her and tries to make her feel totally reliant on him. She is not. Even with 3 kids. I know it feels like this is impossible, but I can assure you it's not. She can leave and rebuild her life. I've been in a very similar scenario and would certainly be willing talk more privately if there is anything else I can offer.

Also, you are a good friend. She will need people like you in the next weeks and months. Lots of hugs to you both.

[StormyDixon]

May 1, 2013 9:50:23 GMT -5 ECB said:

He's a nice guy?  Really?  With everything else you said about him, really?

Honestly, I think she needs to stop looking for the "good" in him and she needs to go talk to her dad and REALLY lay out what's been going on.  I agree- he sounds emotionally abusive.  But if she's trying to play up this "he's a nice guy, but.....", her dad may think she's giving up too easily, or what have you.  But if he knows what an ass this guy is being to his daughter, maybe he'll come around and be supportive.

I agree, he is NOT a nice guy

[hopecounts]

Legally a pre nu Bly affects what she can gain in terms of herself, she will still be entitled to child support and possibly her DH required to pay half of child care.
Also depending on the details of the prenup may be able to get temporary spousal support while she gets on her feet given that she's been a SAHM (may include her returning to school) again it depends on what and how the prenup is written.

Best advice for her is speak with someone at legal aid and show them a copy if her prenup and discuss what she's looking at legally.

she would be eligible for state aid if she meets the means test including CS and any alimony and given the fact that she has 3 kids and no job she likely will unless the judge is extremely generous in the support.

I also agree she needs to make sure her dad is completely informed, I understand why her Dad may not want her moving in with no end in site but to not offer his support at all if he knows all the details is mean.