this argument really is way too close to saying stuff like "if you dress like that, its really not the mans fault he raped you"
I know its a jump, but the thinking is in the same vein. NOT acceptable.
I'm not trying to say that at all, and there is another way of looking at it: it's about respect. It's about the fact that I understood my guy friends were trying hard to keep not only their actions, but their thoughts pure. Knowing that, why do something that would make it more difficult for them?
To me it is the same thing. I don't understand how one can equate me in a bikini to not having respect for the men around me. It is not my responsibility to check and cross check how what I'm wearing will effect someone's boner status.
I'm not trying to say that at all, and there is another way of looking at it: it's about respect. It's about the fact that I understood my guy friends were trying hard to keep not only their actions, but their thoughts pure. Knowing that, why do something that would make it more difficult for them?
To me it is the same thing. I don't understand how one can equate me in a bikini to not having respect for the men around me. It is not my responsibility to check and cross check how what I'm wearing will effect someone's boner status.
So to use Tamb's great example, if you had a friend who was an alcoholic, would you walk by them waving your wine in their face saying, "well, it's not my fault you want it."
I think it's a give and take. Yes, people have the ultimate responsibility for their own thoughts, but it's naïve to act like we all live in individual bubbles and our own actions don't affect those around us.
this argument really is way too close to saying stuff like "if you dress like that, its really not the mans fault he raped you"
I know its a jump, but the thinking is in the same vein. NOT acceptable.
I'm not trying to say that at all, and there is another way of looking at it: it's about respect. It's about the fact that I understood my guy friends were trying hard to keep not only their actions, but their thoughts pure. Knowing that, why do something that would make it more difficult for them?
I can understand where you're coming from, particularly in a fairly insular community like a Christian college. Meeting each other half-way sounds like a good compromise.
OTOH, the blogger seems awfully concerned with appearances for one who purports to want to be valued for her personality. To me, "put-together" doesn't mean "hot one-piece".
I also think the guys have the responsibility for choosing where to hang out. Since not everyone values the same things, it wouldn't be fair to expect everyone visiting a public beach to dress modestly. Maybe they should instead consider a private pool, a less crowded beach, or another more limited setting where women who value modesty hang out.
ETA - I wouldn't drink at home in front of a friend I know is a recovering alcoholic. But I also wouldn't invite that friend out to a bar. I may still choose to go to a bar on a day we're not hanging out.
I do not wave alcohol in the faces of alcoholics, chuckling about how they can't have any.
However, nor do I wave my boobs or shake my uncovered belly in the faces of strange men.
When I am at a party or a bar having a drink, I do not wonder if there could be an alcoholic in our midst yearning for my half finished corona, salivating at the sight of my fancytini. I do not base my decision to drink or not on this, or how delicious looking a drink I order might look to others. Nor do I wonder whether the dress I am wearing may or may not make random guys want to jump my bones.
So I'm going to say the alcoholic example is no good.
To me it is the same thing. I don't understand how one can equate me in a bikini to not having respect for the men around me. It is not my responsibility to check and cross check how what I'm wearing will effect someone's boner status.
So to use Tamb's great example, if you had a friend who was an alcoholic, would you walk by them waving your wine in their face saying, "well, it's not my fault you want it."
I think it's a give and take. Yes, people have the ultimate responsibility for their own thoughts, but it's naïve to act like we all live in individual bubbles and our own actions don't affect those around us.
Well, I'm not going to do toe touches while in the bikini, just like I wouldn't set my wine under an alcoholic's chin.
I think pinning the responsibility of what women wear on them in that way is a slippery slope (as much as I hate that term). It makes it too damn easy for ignorant people to blame a woman for being sexually assaulted because she chose to wear a mini skirt that then caused that man to take those actions because men have impure thoughts and can't control themselves.
If as a man you cannot control yourself around women, no matter what they are wearing then you need to not be around women/seek therapy.
I will not dress myself or decide what I will have to eat or drink in public based on whether someone might have poor impulse control and is trying to not have sex/alcohol/delicious fattening food/gamble/shop whatever your troublesome addiction/desire that you are trying to stay away from right now might be. It is ludicrous to me to even consider this. I don't have the issue and If I did well.. I wouldn't GO to the yummy steakhouse/bar/college frat pool party/casino/designer clothing store etc.
Like, I mean, I wouldn't have even noticed if she never wore bikinis to the beach. A lot of people wear one pieces or tankinis. She could have just done her thing and possibly kept a lot of seed from being spilled over her flat stomach and fetching back. I don't know! I think she just wants to say "I DO have a hot bod! I am just using it in a better way than you are." Which is just
I can see where you're coming from and her tone is certainly off-putting. Though I can sympathize with her reaching out to "her people" on the Internet. Maybe some other girl who has similar values feels pressured to wear a bikini bc everyone else is doing it? Then again, I think if she truly wanted to avoid tempting them, maybe she could work on not prancing around, rather than give herself a gold star for finding a sexy 1-piece to prance around temptingly in.
Like, I mean, I wouldn't have even noticed if she never wore bikinis to the beach. A lot of people wear one pieces or tankinis. She could have just done her thing and possibly kept a lot of seed from being spilled over her flat stomach and fetching back. I don't know! I think she just wants to say "I DO have a hot bod! I am just using it in a better way than you are." Which is just
That's exactly it. She needed all of us to know, that though she keeps it shrouded in layers of cloth, her body is fucking fabulous. And she is better than you and me because we flaunt our amazing physiques with wild abandon.
I think for some Christians (I'm specifically thinking my ILs), its more of a modesty part on the WOMANS end. They think *most* bikini's look kind of... how shall I say this... skimpy? So its almost like the woman is asking for attention. Not necessarily they cant wear it because men might get boners, but they should dress a little more appropriately (or, modestly/a little more fabric/less skin). I guess they think there is no NEED to dress in that little of clothing, a regular non bikini bathing suit works just fine...? Idk how to put it I guess. They'd have to explain it to you. lol
I think there are SOME bikinis that are basically strings, and I think thats a little out there, but I personally find bikini's fine. I, for different reasons, dont wear bikini's anymore (even before having Camden). I just dont feel comfortable.
Am I the only one that finds it ironic (is that the correct term) that the website is "Made In His Image". We are made in his image, why should we have to cover up? If the forbidden fruit wasn't eaten we would all be running around naked in the garden.
I also think the fact that women should have to cover up so that you can help the man....shit is just bullshit, men should be responsible for their actions. I do believe this is like the well if she wasn't in a short skirt, I wouldn't have raped her bullshit.
I do not wave alcohol in the faces of alcoholics, chuckling about how they can't have any.
However, nor do I wave my boobs or shake my uncovered belly in the faces of strange men.
When I am at a party or a bar having a drink, I do not wonder if there could be an alcoholic in our midst yearning for my half finished corona, salivating at the sight of my fancytini. I do not base my decision to drink or not on this, or how delicious looking a drink I order might look to others. Nor do I wonder whether the dress I am wearing may or may not make random guys want to jump my bones.
So I'm going to say the alcoholic example is no good.
But I think this is why some Christians don't drink at all - to avoid tempting those who might not be able to control themselves. Or at least, that is the idea behind it. I don't know if most people actually go through the thought process or just don't drink b/c the pastor or their parents tell them it's wrong. Like I said, whatever. Just don't tell me that I can't drink if I don't have the same convictions.
I think this is doing a lot of Christians a disservice. Just because they have an unpopular or uncommon view doesn't mean they can't and don't think for themselves.
You ladies are making me CMH, even spaghetticat 's V.
My problem with it is that the endgame is a full body covering, not for men but for women. Isn't that the point of the chadri? To save yourself (visually) for your husband? If you really believe that women shouldn't tempt men by running around with bodies, shouldn't they go ahead and cover it all? Where is the line and who decides it? And why are men exempt, aside from the fact that speedos are goofy? Can I ask my friend's husband to stop wearing cologne because it gives me dirty thoughts? (Sometimes it does, dudes...just fartin').
If we tried to limit all things that incite lust, we'd have to crack down on prancercising. No one wants that!!
Like, I mean, I wouldn't have even noticed if she never wore bikinis to the beach. A lot of people wear one pieces or tankinis. She could have just done her thing and possibly kept a lot of seed from being spilled over her flat stomach and fetching back. I don't know! I think she just wants to say "I DO have a hot bod! I am just using it in a better way than you are." Which is just
I can see where you're coming from and her tone is certainly off-putting. Though I can sympathize with her reaching out to "her people" on the Internet. Maybe some other girl who has similar values feels pressured to wear a bikini bc everyone else is doing it? Then again, I think if she truly wanted to avoid tempting them, maybe she could work on not prancing around, rather than give herself a gold star for finding a sexy 1-piece to prance around temptingly in.
I think this is doing a lot of Christians a disservice. Just because they have an unpopular or uncommon view doesn't mean they can't and don't think for themselves.
Well, I really didn't know if a lot of churches actually explained why you aren't supposed to do this and that. I went to a conservative Baptist school and there were a lot of do's and don'ts and not much explanation other than that "it's a sin." I honestly didn't know the whys of a lot of it until I started going to inductive Bible study at a non-denominational church when I was in college. I didn't mean that they can't think for themselves, necessarily. Just that they aren't given the information to go on. In my opinion, THAT does Christians a disservice.
I didn't realize there were still churches like that around. I grew up being taught everyone has the responsibility to know what the Bible says for themselves.
Post by creamsiclechica on May 30, 2013 17:05:42 GMT -5
I think the beauty of America is that we are a FREE society. Freedom of religion, speech, expression. I have the freedom to dress and act accordingly to my beliefs, morals, ideals...or lack there of. It's protected by law. That's what also makes it an individual society, and I think I enjoy that more than I'd enjoy a society which dictated one particular set of guidelines only held by one specific group.
I certainly do not have to personally tolerate smoking, drugs, alcohol, sexuality, or "moral depravity" as defined by me if I don't have to. And that means I avoid going to places where those types of things that conflict with my moral code exist. We have laws in place that help to protect individual actions that infringe on other people's health, life, and liberty, but we also have the FREEDOM to avoid what is not barred by law.
I don't care if the argument is religious or secular, the style of dress chosen by another citizen (male, female, transgender) does NOT specifically infringe on my health as a whole. Mental illness is an exception, but we certainly cannot enact laws for exceptions. Here, we are a democracy, and majority rules within the confines of the Constitution.
We're not a Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Atheist, Agnostic, Satanic, etc society. We are a secular republic.
I also agree that this is a dangerously close message to that of blaming a rape victim for her style of dress or socially perceived "promiscuity."
I don't like the "to help the guy" logic. It strikes me as underestimating men And overestimating women. Men are not monsters and women are not saints.
I love my two pieces, but I also like a little mystery about other people's bodies.
Like the time an undergrad went up a flight of stairs in a tight, short jean skirt with ugg boots but no underwear.
A dozen dudes and I would have liked a little mystery then.