More rental advice needed

[boiler717]

So our plan was to let our tenant out early but go ahead and list it for sale with her in it (which in our state we have the right to do). However, she is adamently refusing to let us list it for sale or cooperate with showings, even if we offer her free rent. She just does not want to deal with it at all. Given that we would want her cooperation in making sure the place is picked up, not cluttered, etc, I don't think we can list it for sale with her in it. She offered to leave her couch and dining room table in the house after moving out to help with staging, but given that we are going to have to move beds and other stuff over there (our agent does not want us to list the house empty) it doesn't make sense for her to leave just some stuff.

Would this change your opinion on requiring a penalty for breaking the lease or would you let her out early still with no penalty? Any other creative options?

ETA: completed my sentence

[emjacobs]

What does your lease agreement state as to either party terminating the lease? Personally the 14 year old brat in me says it's your house, you were doing her a favor with allowing her stay rent free, she can accept that or hit the road.

She wanted to stay through August right? Can you meet in the middle and have her out second week of July? Can you take decent pictures of the place while she's in it and use that time to really polish up the listing?

I don't understand why she's against being there but will leave her stuff to help out. That's strange to me. Is it possible to talk to her to find out what her hold up is and maybe make an arrangement that showing will only happen between x and y hours on certain days so that she is prepared and not caught off guard. Could you go and help pick up / clean before showings?

[boiler717]

The lease says she is responsible for full amount until a tenant is found that for the same price she is paying (which is in accordance with state law). She offered us $300/mo more than what we listed (although we had multiple offers for more than what we listed) so I'm not sure if we would easily find someone to pay that.

I offered reduced hours and to pick up the clutter prior and she declined.

We need in there to do some work prior to photographing. She was supposed to paint the bedrooms prior to move in exchange for a week of free rent and didn't paint them. There are also paint touch ups needed in other areas.

I'm thinking of offering her to pay 6 weeks to 2 months rent for us not to show the house with her in it. Since we want to sell instead of rent then offering her to only pay 50% rent a month until a buyer is found instead of 100% to find a tenant, and that we give her a maximum number of months at 50% (3 or 4 months?)

[mrs.jacinthe]

If your lease includes a penalty for either party breaking the lease early, who actually broached the idea of breaking the lease?
Does your lease include a landlord "inspection" right with 24-hour notice? And does it allow for anything as part of that or is it specific regarding just inspection or work to be done?

[boiler717]

Jun 11, 2013 10:38:51 GMT -5 FormerlyRR said:

This is the tenant who made electrical changes? I stand by my opinion. Get the work inspected before she takes off. And hold her ass to the terms of the lease as far as breaking it. And I think you should go ahead and list it, or at least get startled taking pictures for the listing. That way you also have pictures of what it looks like now before she moves out.

Yes, she said she will sign stating that any problems with the work she will pay for. She said she had no idea that she was supposed to tell us before doing stuff like that even though she's in her mid 40s and it's clearly in the lease.

[boiler717]

Jun 11, 2013 10:40:38 GMT -5 mrs.jacinthe said:

If your lease includes a penalty for either party breaking the lease early, who actually broached the idea of breaking the lease?
Does your lease include a landlord "inspection" right with 24-hour notice? And does it allow for anything as part of that or is it specific regarding just inspection or work to be done?

She wants to break it early and asked for it so she can buy another house.

We have right to inspect at any time with notice.

It said that all work done must be given permission by us in writing and that any and all improvements done by her remain property of the house.

[mrs.jacinthe]

With this, I'd probably let her know that you're going to list the house with 24-hour notice for all "inspections" by potential buyers. Indicate that you or your representative (realtor, perhaps) will be present before/during all "inspections".

I'd also let her know that you rescind your offer of free rent due to her unwillingness to cooperate and she will continue paying until her lease is up or the house sells. Additionally, that you will be having the house inspected and any work she has completed which was not done properly she will be responsible for the cost of repair.

She does NOT get a say in whether the home owner can sell the property or not, or when the homeowner can sell the house. Summer is the best time to sell a house and your waiting until she was ready to move out would be a financial hardship, in that you might not get the best possible price. You tried to be accommodating and (honestly) bent over backwards to be nice about it, and she took the hard line, so that's how she gets treated in return. In my personal opinion, it's time to play hardball.

[kaylie]

I'm with Mrs. J. Who does this chick think she is? We got out of our lease to buy our place but it was with the understanding that we would be responsible until the landlord found replacement tenants or our lease ended. We kept the place in tip top shape so that it could be shown and I really appreciated our landlord doing that for us. She sounds pretty darn entitled.

[tarheels]

I wonder what the rules are on simply telling her to get out now (ish). Not at the end of the summer when it's convenient for HER.

Also, I'm again questioning your agent in all this. Are they well respected in the area? Because if houses are selling in mere hours, whether they're staged or not doesn't matter. That seems like nonsense to me. In a market that hot, a house doesn't need someone's leftover DR set to sell.

[boiler717]

Our agent did say we could sell without staging but just to expect $3-5k less.

I think she has no idea what her legal options are. Maybe I should just explain what they are so she can see how far apart they are and ask her for a better offer.

[stephm0188]

She needs to suck it up and make the house available for showings. No cooperation on her end? Then don't break the lease. She doesn't get to call the shots.

[sjh722]

I am going to send you a PM.

[boiler717]

Update: she offered no refunds on deposits (which naturally we aren't giving anyways as she's not purchasing the home), a later move out date, and half rent until its sold but did not address us needing to list the place now.

[mrs.jacinthe]

This is going to sound rude any way I phrase it, but I need to know. (And you know I would be more tactful if I could figure out how ... )

Why are you negotiating with this woman? My understanding is that you have a signed lease indicating the penalties for breaking the lease, indicating that you have the right to enter the premises at any time with notice, state law supports landlords listing while a tenant is resident, and the woman has done unauthorized repairs and improvements. It sounds like she doesn't have a legal leg to stand on here, in any possible way. So why negotiate?

Send her a letter (certified) that per the terms of the lease and in accordance with state law, you will be listing the property for sale and will expect her full cooperation with allowing your representatives full access to the property with appropriate notice. Let her know that you will be unable to release her from her obligation per the terms of the lease until the property has sold and that you will hold her responsible for any repairs necessary due to unauthorized repairs.

[hbomdiggity]

I've been a renter in a listed house and it sucked. But our LL offered no accommodation and I think you have been more than reasonable. She wants everything on her terms and that's not how it goes.

I'd tell her that if you can't come to an agreement as to alternate terms, the lease stands re penalties, work completed/not completed, and showings.

[boiler717]

Mrs.J I don't think you are rude! The reason why I'm playing nice is two fold. One, I don't want an upset or angry tenant. I want her to still think I'm working for her, so she will be compliant with leaving the house in good condition, etc. Two, we do need her cooperation with showings. If she's angry she could leave the place a mess, not pick up clutter, have dog stuff everywhere, etc. I know that the house will not show well if there is a tenant in there who is not happy with showing the house, which will result in a lower sales price for us. So I'm only thinking of us when I'm being nice.

I thinking of this for the proposal back to her:
- July 15 move out, 1 month penalty for breaking the lease, 50% rent for 6 months or until the property is sold
- August 31 move out, 2.5 month penalty for breaking the lease, 50% rent for 6 months or until the property is sold
- For either option, if she agrees to be compliant with showings, we will reduce the penalty by 50% and only show during set hours / with notice. If the house sells while she is still in it, we will waive the remaining 50% of the penalty.

ETA: and for either all the other remaining conditions remain in place (improvements subject to inspection, improvements stay with the house, earnest money not returned, etc).

[boiler717]

Another update, we have an agreement!

[mrs.jacinthe]

YAY! Which option did she go with?

[boiler717]

She will be out July 31, the house goes on the market no earlier than June 28, no penalty and she's responsible for 50% of the rent until we have a closing or the lease term is up. She will let us in paint prior to the house going on the market and to take pictures, and she will cooperate with showings (she will actually be out of town most of July and we can show at any time but other showings will be with notice and not during work hours, will keep her weekly cleaning lady, and will remove clutter and animal items prior to showing). All improvements stay with the house and we will obtain an inspection prior to July 31 and she will be responsible for any items related to her repairs.