London / UK peeps...help me!

[joy2611]

So, this is where everyone hangs out now, yes?

My husband and I are trying to move to London. The process is taking longer than expected, which is fine. It's a dream of ours to do this and dream achievement doesn't happen overnight.

We want to have a baby "at some point." Ideally, we wanted to move, enjoy life, and then come home in ~ 2-3 years to have a baby. However, as the waiting game continues, our ages are only increasing. I need to start realistically facing the idea that, if this moves pans out, we'll be having a baby outside of the US.

I'm completely freaked out by the idea of giving birth overseas. I know that might sound ridiculous, but I do know that my fear stems from not understanding medical policy in the UK. I know Britain has the NHS, but I also hear many people say they'd rather go private for childbirth. I don't know standard operating policies for hospitals there. I just know nothing.

Have any of you given birth in the UK? Can you tell me your experience?

[anna7602]

I am not in the UK and can't answer your specific question. However, just wanted to say I sympathize with the whole waiting to TTC while ironing out the specifics of an international move. That's where we've been for the last year. Now I've been in France 5 months and am slowly coming up to speed with how the system works here as we get ready to take the TTC # 2 plunge. Talking to people I've met IRL since getting here has been really helpful.

[expatpumpkin]

No kids, so no birth story for you, but I do live in London and have used the NHS. So far, so good, no complaints...

If your DH gets transferred here, he'll probably be given private insurance as a part of his package. With private insurance, you see the same doctors, but you'll have more time with them (longer appointments) and you'll jump the queue and be seen more quickly. We have this and it's been great.

Not to be snarky, but I'm really not sure what you're afraid of. The UK isn't Somalia

[pittpurple]

I am currently pregnant in Scotland so no experience giving birth but I have lots of experience at the Early Pregnancy Unit (I had a m/c last year and have had some difficulties this time around). I cannot praise the level of care enough to be honest. Everyone I've deal with has been lovely and I've had so many appointments, all covered by the NHS.

It can be difficult navigating an unfamiliar system - they have different names for things and they have a slightly different attitude in general to what my friends have generally experienced in the states. But I agree with PP, this is a safe country with great medical care and you'll be totally fine.

[ninjatofu]

I had my twins here on the NHS and it was a great experience. No complaints whatsoever. I'm also dealing with a vicious autoimmune disease here in the UK and the quality of care I've been receiving on the NHS has completely floored me. Absolutely wonderful.

LOL@expatpumpkin, but I have to agree.

[anna7602]

Jun 14, 2012 5:53:46 GMT -5 expatpumpkin said:

Not to be snarky, but I'm really not sure what you're afraid of. The UK isn't Somalia

Hmmm, honestly, the private v. public thing is really confusing outside the U.S. I didn't read "fear" in her post, just being proactive.

[ninjatofu]

It was the "freaked out about giving birth overseas". It's the UK. It's a western country with no language barrier and a similar culture and standard of care to that in the states. To me, freaking out about giving birth overseas is something I would worry more about if you were giving birth in a second or third world country with a language barrier, or even a first world with a language barrier.

[joy2611]

Nope, I totally expected the "This isn't a third world country, Joy - what's the problem?" comment. No worries!

It's just the unknown. Unknown is scary. I am not worried about other medical problems - they are doctors, trained and educated just like in the US. No big deal.

However, childbirth is a weird situation. It's not exactly an "illness" and a lot of people have a lot of outlooks on it. I've spent time researching my options in the US for having the birth I want vs the birth I would need (should complications arise) and I'm fully understand how to get those things in the US. The UK is a different system that I know very little about. Obviously I would look into all my options, but without getting ahead of myself I was just curious for some personal stories to get an overview of others experiences.

[joy2611]

The "freaked out" comment comes from the idea that I don't know how often C-sections are pushed, how often pitocin is doled out, am I allowed to have a doula, do people rely on midwives, what kind of support do hospitals offer over there? That's all. I'm not afraid of dying or being carelessly ignored - sorry! I'm worried about not being clear on the actual procedures and what kind of advocate I can be for myself there.

Like I said, I was just curious for others general experiences. Sometimes reassurance that your fears are silly is nice, too.

[ninjatofu]

I like you. Lol.

Having twins I had no control over their birth here, or at least, very little. I wasn't too bothered about it because I don't feel that the method of birth matters, just that everyone is healthy.

Here it is very midwife led in the hospital (my experience) and you don't see the dr/consultant very often unless there are problems. I had mine at the queen Charlotte and have no complaints.

[ninjatofu]

What's holding up your move to London?

[expatpumpkin]

What Ninja said

Welcome to the board, Joy! You'll get lots of help here.

[frlcb]

How are you guys trying to move to London? With a job or on your own? I would worry about visas before you stress about a baby.

Saying that the UK is much more natural birth friendly than the US. It is a midwifery led model of care, and unless you have a complication you wouldn't even see an OB. I had my first in London and my second in the US (also with a midwife) and found them both to be comparable, not pushing c-sections, letting me go 15 days late with both. I don't think doulas are as common in the UK but they aren't unheard of.

The aftercare in the UK is, hands down, better than the US. The midwives come to your house for the first couple of weeks to do visits, and so does a health visitor.

[joy2611]

Thanks so much for the information! I appreciate it!

My husband and I both have job opportunities in London. Scheduling a move that makes sense for both timing of my career and his has been an interesting juggling act.

[frlcb]

You will get the bare bones with the NHS in terms of testing and provisions while in labor, just so you know. I had to request the gestational diabetes test and they acted like I was asking for an act of God, and they flat out refused me the Group B Strep test. They are much more hands off. I was never weighed, they wanted me to test my own urine (I refused so they did do that) and I had 2 ultrasounds total, although that is all I had in the US as well. I was required to bring everything to the hospital for the baby, they don't provide diapers, wipes, etc.

[pittpurple]

So far I've found that they are way more hands-off than I've heard about in the US - pregnancy is treated as a normal part of life here, not something to be medicated, etc. The c-section rates are far, far lower in the UK - they really do just let you get on with things. One of the standard questions when you book your first appointment is if you are planning on a home birth. With twins, that's not an option and like Tofu said, I actualy have very few options - all going well, I'll be giving birth in the local hospital with doctors around, but there is a birthing centre here and there are options.

What I've found in general about health care in the UK is that you have to be willing to self-advocate and ask for what you want. No one is going to offer you anything, you have to do the work and know what you need. I've never been refused for anything, but I have had to ask for things.

And yes, unless there's a problem your entire pregnancy will be handled by a midwife (or if you are having multiples and then you have a few appointments with a specialist, I have my first one on Monday). So far, I've found everything to be really easy to manage and very calming!

[joy2611]

Thank you, Pitt! Very helpful to know and understand.

[Deleted]

Not been through pregnancy, but the care you get as a cancer patient is unbelievably good. I saw the same surgeon as I would have done privately and was treated in a brand new hospital that gave me a single bed room. After care has been excellent too. I wouldn't worry at all about having a baby here.

[carolinalt4]

So I totally get the freaking out. I lived there for 4 years and dreaded the thought of getting a serious illness. I had a few minor ones and problems so know a little about this.

Here's the thing with the NHS and private health care that, as an American, you just have to adjust to in your head.

1. The NHS is pretty brilliant at most things. Is it the speediest if you need, say...an MRI on a knee or ankle for sports injury? No (try 10 weeks) but it's all 100% free so....also, if you have a 'serious' medical problem (cancer, problem pregnancy, heart attack) then I've heard nothing but good things about the standard of care. Now this was in London but I can't imagine it's so far off in other places. If you want US-style speed for scans and treatment for non-urgent illnesses, go private. If you are on the NHS and you have a critical or life-threatening illness (cancer of any sort, accident, burst appendix) they are really fast and get you into a specialist.

2. The UK is not the US in terms of coddling. If you go to the US for a sprained ankle or something, you get X-rayed, scanned, fitted with a boot, pain meds, crutches, the whole nine yards. Again, as it's health care for all, the NHS will certainly give you what you NEED but I wouldn't expect an air cast unless it's critical. They very much take a conservative approach to medications and the idea that things actually do heal in their own time. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. But it can be a little disconcerting to have the GP say 'just put some Savlon and a bandage; give it a week' and send you home!

***Special note on pregnancy with NHS: Most women, if they are healthy and have no pre-existing conditions, do NOT need tons of tests and exams and ultrasounds to ensure a healthy pregnancy. If you think of it with that mindset then the NHS approach to obstetrics makes sense. My US friend in Ireland was pregnant with her first (Ireland loves its babies!) and went to the hospital. A few tests and scans that were all perfectly normal and they essentially said 'you're good to go; call if you have any problems; see you in several months'. Sounds callous BUT A) It was all 100% free. B) She was a healthy 24 year old with no history of any medical problems and lots of support from hubby C) No family history of issues. She had a healthy baby boy with plenty of good drugs 9 months later. Oddly, she ended up giving birth in the US do to a job transfer and said the US hospital was RIDICULOUS in the amount of paperwork, questions, blood draws, tests, scans, etc etc etc plus the cost (they paid out of pocket) for a completely trouble-free birth. You can see the good and bad on both ends of this scenario?

3. Private Healthcare: In some ways, yes, it's awesome. Better food, faster attention, private rooms, longer stays. Are these good to haves? Yes. Are they necessary in the course of receiving quality health care? Well...it's a personal choice. I'm a scardey-cat so might want it but it's not necessary to ensure a knowledgeable staff at our bedside. If you've had private healthcare in the UK yes it's really easy to get used to but if you're struggling with bills and set up, the NHS is perfectly equipped for most things in life.

4. Here's another key to navigating the NHS - KNOW YOUR AREA. A friend recently had a perfectly normal labor and delivery in London. She lives in Tower Hamlets (is Canadian) but delivered in Central London (she was 2 weeks late and induced). Said the staff during labor and delivery were fine but the aftercare was horrendous. Snappy staff made her cry by telling her she was neurotic and not supporting her baby enough with breastfeeding and her husband was going to be completely useless as a father (she's also a pretty calm woman so this must have been REALLY bad for her to get upset). They returned to Tower Hamlets where they'd been scared to use the hospital for delivery and said that the after-birth home care nurses were AMAZING. Had a lactation nurse who was so sweet and patient and helped first-time mommy (and daddy!) through the rough patches. Point is, much like the US, there are good and bad folks in the medical field everywhere.

5. Last thing about giving birth in the UK - use of midwives. They don't have a great rep in the US but seriously, midwives can be a wonderful thing and should get more respect. Instead of a sometimes revolving door of residents, nurses, staff, orderlies, doctors you often have 1 person who has delivered a LOT of babies walking you through the process. I've also hard good things in the UK about using some more natural approaches to helping labor (hey I love nice drugs and am NOT a huge fan of pain).

Wow, sorry, this went on a bit. Bottom line is I wouldn't worry about healthcare. I've been on that end of worry (and my British friends get really mad about the US 'snotty' attitude to UK healthcare) but seriously, adapt a little and you'll be fine. The UK birthing statistics are actually MUCH better than the US for infant and mother mortality. I'm facing giving birth to kids at some point in the DISTANT future in Zurich or London and would be lying if I didn't feel a little freaked out too! But that's what husbands are for

Oh, and the dental rumour is total BS - I've been to some of the best dentists in the US and UK is totally on par. It is, as with most things as an expat, up to YOU to be your own advocate. Yes, you can go to the dentist every 6 months (lots of my UK friends never go; I was horrified as was the NHS dentist I saw). You can go to the GP; the A&E (ER) is free; medicines are not that expensive and most any American drug is available. Quality of healthcare is fine although some cosmetic doctors are more pricey than US. You'll be brilliant - now go have fun!

[frlcb]

Jun 17, 2012 22:51:36 GMT -5 carolinalt4 said:

So I totally get the freaking out. I lived there for 4 years and dreaded the thought of getting a serious illness. I had a few minor ones and problems so know a little about this.

Here's the thing with the NHS and private health care that, as an American, you just have to adjust to in your head.

1. The NHS is pretty brilliant at most things. Is it the speediest if you need, say...an MRI on a knee or ankle for sports injury? No (try 10 weeks) but it's all 100% free so....also, if you have a 'serious' medical problem (cancer, problem pregnancy, heart attack) then I've heard nothing but good things about the standard of care. Now this was in London but I can't imagine it's so far off in other places. If you want US-style speed for scans and treatment for non-urgent illnesses, go private. If you are on the NHS and you have a critical or life-threatening illness (cancer of any sort, accident, burst appendix) they are really fast and get you into a specialist.

2. The UK is not the US in terms of coddling. If you go to the US for a sprained ankle or something, you get X-rayed, scanned, fitted with a boot, pain meds, crutches, the whole nine yards. Again, as it's health care for all, the NHS will certainly give you what you NEED but I wouldn't expect an air cast unless it's critical. They very much take a conservative approach to medications and the idea that things actually do heal in their own time. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. But it can be a little disconcerting to have the GP say 'just put some Savlon and a bandage; give it a week' and send you home!

***Special note on pregnancy with NHS: Most women, if they are healthy and have no pre-existing conditions, do NOT need tons of tests and exams and ultrasounds to ensure a healthy pregnancy. If you think of it with that mindset then the NHS approach to obstetrics makes sense. My US friend in Ireland was pregnant with her first (Ireland loves its babies!) and went to the hospital. A few tests and scans that were all perfectly normal and they essentially said 'you're good to go; call if you have any problems; see you in several months'. Sounds callous BUT A) It was all 100% free. B) She was a healthy 24 year old with no history of any medical problems and lots of support from hubby C) No family history of issues. She had a healthy baby boy with plenty of good drugs 9 months later. Oddly, she ended up giving birth in the US do to a job transfer and said the US hospital was RIDICULOUS in the amount of paperwork, questions, blood draws, tests, scans, etc etc etc plus the cost (they paid out of pocket) for a completely trouble-free birth. You can see the good and bad on both ends of this scenario?

3. Private Healthcare: In some ways, yes, it's awesome. Better food, faster attention, private rooms, longer stays. Are these good to haves? Yes. Are they necessary in the course of receiving quality health care? Well...it's a personal choice. I'm a scardey-cat so might want it but it's not necessary to ensure a knowledgeable staff at our bedside. If you've had private healthcare in the UK yes it's really easy to get used to but if you're struggling with bills and set up, the NHS is perfectly equipped for most things in life.

4. Here's another key to navigating the NHS - KNOW YOUR AREA. A friend recently had a perfectly normal labor and delivery in London. She lives in Tower Hamlets (is Canadian) but delivered in Central London (she was 2 weeks late and induced). Said the staff during labor and delivery were fine but the aftercare was horrendous. Snappy staff made her cry by telling her she was neurotic and not supporting her baby enough with breastfeeding and her husband was going to be completely useless as a father (she's also a pretty calm woman so this must have been REALLY bad for her to get upset). They returned to Tower Hamlets where they'd been scared to use the hospital for delivery and said that the after-birth home care nurses were AMAZING. Had a lactation nurse who was so sweet and patient and helped first-time mommy (and daddy!) through the rough patches. Point is, much like the US, there are good and bad folks in the medical field everywhere.

5. Last thing about giving birth in the UK - use of midwives. They don't have a great rep in the US but seriously, midwives can be a wonderful thing and should get more respect. Instead of a sometimes revolving door of residents, nurses, staff, orderlies, doctors you often have 1 person who has delivered a LOT of babies walking you through the process. I've also hard good things in the UK about using some more natural approaches to helping labor (hey I love nice drugs and am NOT a huge fan of pain).

Wow, sorry, this went on a bit. Bottom line is I wouldn't worry about healthcare. I've been on that end of worry (and my British friends get really mad about the US 'snotty' attitude to UK healthcare) but seriously, adapt a little and you'll be fine. The UK birthing statistics are actually MUCH better than the US for infant and mother mortality. I'm facing giving birth to kids at some point in the DISTANT future in Zurich or London and would be lying if I didn't feel a little freaked out too! But that's what husbands are for

Oh, and the dental rumour is total BS - I've been to some of the best dentists in the US and UK is totally on par. It is, as with most things as an expat, up to YOU to be your own advocate. Yes, you can go to the dentist every 6 months (lots of my UK friends never go; I was horrified as was the NHS dentist I saw). You can go to the GP; the A&E (ER) is free; medicines are not that expensive and most any American drug is available. Quality of healthcare is fine although some cosmetic doctors are more pricey than US. You'll be brilliant - now go have fun!

I just want to clarify that the NHS is not free. You pay for it, with taxes. You just don't pay a bill at the time of service. Sorry, pet peeve of mine

Also midwives are not poorly regarded in the US, at least not CNM. You may be thinking of direct entry or lay midwives, who typically do home births, where people don't understand and think of it is as hippy dippy or crazy. But I had a birth in london and one in the US, with a midwife and both were comparable in terms of care. I will say that there are valid reasons to have some of the tests that they offer in the US and not in the UK (group B strep for instance) and it is unfortunate that they can't justify it because they said such a small number of women get it - but for the women who do it can be very dangerous for the baby. This is definitely one of the down sides to having a nationalized system.