I just don't know..

[sunshineray]

So, I've felt like H has been lying to me about when he went to my friends house when I was out of town several months ago. I mean, he couldn't deny he was there and I caught him in that lie easily. I've been questioning him off and on for the last few weeks and he has slowly offered more details. This makes me feel like he's making them up and just needed time to figure out what to tell me. Anyway, he's been super defensive this whole time. Two nights ago we had a pretty bad argument that involved him sharing some insights about me that are probably true and were very hurtful. I was emotional and was getting ready to go to bed. He comes in and suddenly tells me that he exchanged naked pictures with her when I was gone. He said those were the missing texts I didn't see on his phone but that were showing up on the bill. I was just blindsided.

I had accused him of cheating with her which he still adamantly denies. But why tell me that now? Why hide it for so long? I just feel like there's more truth to come.

We're gonna talk more tonight. I need details about these supposed pictures and exactly how it occurred. Fwiw he appears sorry and genuine. If you haven't read my previous posts on ML about the picture thing, I'd recommend it so this makes more sense. I have no idea what else to say to him at this point. I'm so hurt.

[starrieskies]

sunshineray, I'm sorry. But your H is a lying liar who lies. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he is taking time to come up with additional details. And I also wouldn't be surprised if your friend isn't the first one he's cheated on you with. Getting an STD test would be one of my top priorities at this point.

Coming from someone whose H has manipulated her for years, of course he seems sorry. How else is he going to convince you to look past his shitty behavior?? He's going to act sorry for as long as it takes to make you cave and stop being angry and he's going to go right back to the same way he's always been. Permanent changes don't happen overnight.

Is he in counseling? Are you yet?

I'm so sorry you're in this spot! I know it's not easy. And I know it's sometimes hard to see the harsh comments from posters about the man you love. But please believe that these things are said out of caring for YOU. Because YOU deserve better!

[margarita]

I have to ditto pretty much everything starrieskies has said.

If you haven't already - get tested. I'm so sorry sunshineray.

[tiramisu]

Tritto starries.

Honestly, the things I would want to say to your husband are counterproductive. I hope you do get tested. Please remember that if it comes back clean for everything, it doesn't mean he didn't cheat.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. Please don't allow jogs bullshit and manipulation to distract you from what your gut says.

[starrieskies]

Jul 17, 2013 16:44:22 GMT -5 sunshineray said:

I have no idea what else to say to him at this point. I'm so hurt.

I had to touch on this too. You SHOULD be hurt! You DESERVE to be hurt! And DO NOT EVER let your H tell you that your feelings are not valid or justified. What ever you are feeling, you have every right to those feelings.

[Muddled]

What don't you know?
You don't need any more details.

[partiallysunny]

Have you figured out what you are going to do with the information he has given you?

[sunshineray]

Muddled. I know. I wish I was brave enough to just leave. He told me today that he made an appointment with a therapist. He previously said it was a waste of time and that if our (hypothetical) marriage counselor suggested he needed individual therapy that he would go. That was our compromise. Now today he tells me he has an appointment scheduled. Tonight's conversation is allegedly to explain why he changed his mind.

Fuck it. Here's the texts I got today from him. We didn't talk about it all last night and he was super sweet and accommodating. I felt suspicious.

"Hey. I have been thinking a lot and I wanted to tell you that I have made this whole thing worse by acting so defensive. For all my big talk I actually have not done a very good job of putting myself in your shoes. I love you and am so sorry for hurting you. That is the last thing I would ever want to do and I haven't been a very good husband to you at all. I am so sorry babe.

My response:

I appreciate that. I'm just so frustrated that you seem to have this disconnect between your actions and what (to me) is my entirely understandable reaction. I have no idea what made you decide to drop that you and *friend's name* exchanged pictures without including me. It was so out of left field. I am hurt and angry and confused. Obviously I am going to want some additional details about that. If we're going to make this work you owe it to me to be completely honest, and not just provide "honesty" as you see fit. I don't feel like this piece meal bullshit is anything but self serving. Anyway. I'm angry. I'm working on that but it's really hard especially when I don't feel you're being honest with me and I turn out to be right. That's pretty hurtful. We'll talk more later. I appreciate your apology.

His response: I totally respect your angry. I wasn't really before and that is wrong of me. I'm sorry that it seems to come piece meal. That's not my intention at all. I was thinking really hard about it and remembered that and wanted to be honest about it. I did not remember it before. I'm really sorry if that doesn't come across very well and I can see where you are coming from for sure. I want to make us work more than anything. I know I haven't helped by being defensive and I really wanted to apologize about that. And to continue to say that I am sorry for the whole thing."

So.. H is waiting on my to come outside and talk. I really just need some advice on what to say. I don't really want to be an asshole, but I want to assert myself. I'm super tired of being manipulated. I grew up with a physically and emotionally abusive mother and my ex was the same way. I want to fucking stand up for myself already and I know for H that feels like its coming out of nowhere. Sigh.

[sunshineray]

Jul 17, 2013 18:28:48 GMT -5 partiallysunny said:

Have you figured out what you are going to do with the information he has given you?

Nope. That's really what I'm asking here. I don't know what else to ask him about the situation or pictures. It's just.. WTF.

[tiramisu]

What do you want to know from him? I think you have to identify that first and that will guide your conversation. Also, I'd try not to worry about being an asshole, he's been an asshole for long enough, I think it's your turn not to worry about how your words are received.

[Muddled]

Just be honest. Tell him that you can't trust him. At all. He says he's going to a counselor? How do you know? How do you know he's not spending that time elsewhere? He's a liar. Anything he says, including an apology, could be a lie. Tell him you feel like he is only sorry he got caught and hot that he did it and not that he hurt you. Tell him that you are angry and you need time to think about things. Tell him, if you wish, that you would like him to stay somewhere else for a few nights while you think.

In the end, no one can tell you what to say, but you need to start being honest with each other. He cheats and lies and you hide your feelings. No relationship can survive that.

[starrieskies]

its all well and good that he's saying all these sweet things, but until he backs up those words with REAL actions and REAL sustained improvement, they're no good. They change nothing. They're just words. I really feel like he's trying to say all the right things to get you to stay, but you're not going to see any real changes...

[10nille]

Did you ever get to the bottom of his relationship with your sister? You are miserable and soon your child will be miserable. Work on getting your ducks in a row. Hopefully, therapy you will give you the strength to tell him to pack his suitcase and his lies and shove them. You know this is not going to end well, so end it on your terms.

[Deleted]

oh for fucks sake...stop worrying about how he is feeling, about hurting his feelings and appreciating his apology. he shouldn't have anything like this to apologize for.

I do not understand why you think you don't deserve better? I don't understand why you allow yourself to be constantly lied to by this man.

please get therapy ASAP..
pack his bag and tell him to go somewhere while you think things out.

id bet my left leg he is lying about therapy too

[captainmel]

Be the asshole!

Even if there wasn't sex, naked pictures are cheating.

Like I said last time, he's going between all the different reactions he could have until he figures out what you will respond positively to. He is a lying liar who lies and is a champion mother fucking manipulator who cheated on you and will do it again.

[elleblue]

So he's really into naked pics, huh? Makes me wonder how many of your "friends" he's done this with in the past behind your back. To be perfectly honest, were I in your shoes, I would not be okay with it. It would be a total deal breaker for me because I wouldn't feel able to trust him for a long time, if ever.

Above all else I don't like how dismissive he's been about your feelings. I know there are relationships out there that are okay with a ton of looking (aka exchanging naked pics) but no touching and don't consider it cheating. But hiding it is never part of that deal. Your current feelings show that deep down you feel as betrayed as if he had had a sexual relationship with another person so I don't think you should focus on finding out whether he has or he hasn't. Especially since it seems unlikely you're going to get the full truth from him.

I can only imagine how difficult this must be for you, but I feel certain that this is not fixable, at least not as things stand. Maybe after a trial separation and some counseling (individually and together) you might be able to make it work, but his attitude over this whole thing has been so poor I highly doubt it. It may be one of, if not the most difficult thing you ever have to do, but I can guarantee you that once you're through it and on the other side, the only thing you'll regret is taking so long to decide you are worth better. If you must repeat it a dozen times before you fall asleep and again when you wake up, each day every day, until you believe it.

I'm honestly just so sad for you and your daughter. {{{sunshineray}}}

[bowies]

Did you ever say you're in counseling (by yourself)? I really think it will benefit you as you work through this. It took me about 4 - 5 months of counseling to get up the courage to end my marriage (he was also a cheater amongst other things).

I don't know what is left to say to your H, honestly. The same patterns are just going to keep repeating themselves because there aren't any consequences. He acts inappropriately, you get mad, you forgive, he does it again. At some point I hope you realize that this is who he is and you don't need to stick around to witness it.

[justkly]

He didn't remember exchanging naked pics with your BFF? Come on. He put those pics to good use before he deleted them. There's no way that he DIDN'T remember. If you believe this, then by all means, keep pretending he's a decent guy. He's not. He's still lying. It's up to you to determine how the rest of this story is played out.

[TEM325]

Jul 17, 2013 17:07:58 GMT -5 starrieskies said:

But your H is a lying liar who lies.

Agreed. I'm so sorry. I was married to one of those too---key word here is "WAS". Thank GOD I no longer "am".

[wrathofkuus]

Honestly, I think talking to him about anything of substance is a waste of your time and energy. This isn't fixable; you know it, I know it, my rabbits know it, and it wasn't fixable even if he were telling the truth and completely above board with your friend while you were away. At this point you're just spinning your wheels by digging for a "good enough" reason to leave, then trying to hash it out with him every time you find one.

Spend your time and energy psyching yourself up for a divorce. Get excited about the prospect of your new life without all this bullshit making you feel crappy.

[Deleted]

Sorry that you are going thu this.

HE did NOT go to your friends house. He went to some chick's house. This chick is not your friend.

[Deleted]

Jul 17, 2013 20:07:14 GMT -5 mags said:

oh for fucks sake...stop worrying about how he is feeling, about hurting his feelings and appreciating his apology. he shouldn't have anything like this to apologize for.

I do not understand why you think you don't deserve better? I don't understand why you allow yourself to be constantly lied to by this man.

please get therapy ASAP..
pack his bag and tell him to go somewhere while you think things out.

id bet my left leg he is lying about therapy too

mags is very wise. 

[motzie]

Jul 17, 2013 18:36:29 GMT -5 sunshineray said:

"Hey. I have been thinking a lot and I wanted to tell you that I have made this whole thing worse by acting so defensive. For all my big talk I actually have not done a very good job of putting myself in your shoes. I love you and am so sorry for hurting you. That is the last thing I would ever want to do and I haven't been a very good husband to you at all. I am so sorry babe.

Fuck this guy. I don't care what he says after, how much he apologizes. Fuck. That. Shit.

Please do yourself the huge favor of either leaving or kicking him out, now. Don't hem and haw. This guy isn't worth keeping around for another second.

[Deleted]

Enough is enough is enough.

[cuddlyevil]

I think you're borrowing trouble by wanting more details. What more do you need to know? He sent naked pictures to someone other than you while you were away and lied about it. Now he's being all dodgy about whether or not anything else happened.

Of course he's contrite, he knows it's over--he's just trying to see if you'll weaken and then let it all blow over. DON'T.

Kick his ass out then take him for all he's worth.

[motzie]

And I'm very sorry, but he is banging/has banged your friend. I would bet one trillion dollars on that.

[neonpink]

Your friend is not your friend.
Your husband is a liar and is manipulating you.

You don't need to worry about his feelings. Worry about yours and your daughters. He's done wrong to you and you have every right to be hurt and angry. It sounds like he is just doing and saying whatever will keep you around. You deserve more than this relationship. I'm not sure how old your daughter is but you are showing her that it's ok to let a man walk all over you. YOU deserve a better mate your daughter deserves a male figure in her life that respects women.
I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of talking things out. His I will go to counseling now is just to make an "effort" to keep you. YOU DESERVE BETTER.