runners vs. cyclists on the road...question

[texassmith]

I always thought that runners were supposed to run against traffic (on the left side of the road) and cyclists were supposed to ride with traffic (on the right side of the road). So I was running on the left on a very wide shoulder and encountered several cyclists riding the opposite direction I was running, so we were on the same side. None of them even looked up at me, much less made an attempt to move to the inside or outside of the shoulder. After playing chicken a couple times, I eventually just crossed over and ran on the right side, which makes me uncomfortable since I can hear cars coming up behind me but can't see them.

So am I wrong about which side runners and cyclists are supposed to be on? How do you deal with this?

[Deleted]

I understand the 'rules' the way that you do - run against traffic. Cyclists are absolutely supposed to ride on the right side, however.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I meet lots of cyclists on my run. If we meet and there are no cars, the cyclist always makes room for me. If there is a car, I head off the road.

The cyclists I encounter are nice and usually say hi, smile, or nod.

[texassmith]

OK, I thought I was right, but wasn't 100% sure.

The problem is that while the shoulder is nice and wide, the outside of the shoulder meets with a fairly steep grassy incline, so I can't just dart off the pavement for a few seconds. Guess I just need to be quick on my toes :/

[kams]

You're right about the rules. What a weird situation.

[sadlebred]

Were they "cyclists" or "people on bikes." (ok, let's not debate this) I've found that "people on bikes" don't often know the rules of the road. In all 50 states, bikes are considered legal vehicles and must ride WITH traffic and follow the same rules of the road as card (there are a few exceptions that I won't bore you with). "Cyclists" tend to know the rules of the road, avoid riding on the sidewalk, and usually (mostly) follow the rules of the road.

[grace]

Sometimes the problem, at least where I am, is that the "cyclists" aren't following the rules of the road. I get the feeling they know them, though. As a "cyclist" myself, that really irritates me.

[malibu]

I would be a "people on bike", and even I know that on foot it's against traffic and on a bike it's with traffic.

[patches31709]

Jun 16, 2012 22:25:12 GMT -5 malibu said:

I would be a "people on bike", and even I know that on foot it's against traffic and on a bike it's with traffic. [/quote
Right. But this is exactly what the OP is describing so I'm confused as to what the problem is. If the cyclists were coming at you, everyone was doing the right thing. Someone has to yield a bit to the other. I would expect the bike riders to swing a little wide if no cars are coming, otherwise I would just get out of the way.

[kams]

Ok, now that patches mentions it, it's dawning on me that of course you and the cyclists (or people on bikes) would pass each other in that way. You against traffic is the same as you against cyclist if cyclist is with traffic. Not sure why that was confusing me, other than I've never run on the road (I'm very fortunate with our local paths).

I tend to be quick to yield, so I would have done my best as a runner to stop and get out of their way when i saw them coming. If I was riding, I would have gotten into a more single file arrangement as to not take up the entire shoulder, and I would also take the side of the shoulder closer to the vehicles. Regardless of what is the right thing to do, it is weird that they didn't even acknowledge you or make any attempt to share the space.

[texassmith]

Jun 16, 2012 20:45:26 GMT -5 sadlebred said:

Were they "cyclists" or "people on bikes." (ok, let's not debate this) I've found that "people on bikes" don't often know the rules of the road. In all 50 states, bikes are considered legal vehicles and must ride WITH traffic and follow the same rules of the road as card (there are a few exceptions that I won't bore you with). "Cyclists" tend to know the rules of the road, avoid riding on the sidewalk, and usually (mostly) follow the rules of the road.

I can't know for sure, but they looked like serious cyclists rather than just people on bikes.

My main issue is that they were paying basically no attention at all to what was going on around them. I am glad to move out of their way (although the particular street we were running on makes it hard for me to move onto the grass for a few strides); they didn't seem to feel the same way.

[cransplash]

Jun 16, 2012 18:02:10 GMT -5 @sessalee said:

I understand the 'rules' the way that you do - run against traffic. Cyclists are absolutely supposed to ride on the right side, however.

Ditto this exactly

[agrippa]

Jun 16, 2012 22:46:24 GMT -5 patches31709 said:

Jun 16, 2012 22:25:12 GMT -5 malibu said:

I would be a "people on bike", and even I know that on foot it's against traffic and on a bike it's with traffic. [/quote
Right. But this is exactly what the OP is describing so I'm confused as to what the problem is. If the cyclists were coming at you, everyone was doing the right thing. Someone has to yield a bit to the other. I would expect the bike riders to swing a little wide if no cars are coming, otherwise I would just get out of the way.

This. Usually in that situation both the biker and I yield and swing wide around each other.

[frlcb]

Jun 17, 2012 0:35:14 GMT -5 kams said:

Ok, now that patches mentions it, it's dawning on me that of course you and the cyclists (or people on bikes) would pass each other in that way. You against traffic is the same as you against cyclist if cyclist is with traffic. Not sure why that was confusing me, other than I've never run on the road (I'm very fortunate with our local paths).

I tend to be quick to yield, so I would have done my best as a runner to stop and get out of their way when i saw them coming. If I was riding, I would have gotten into a more single file arrangement as to not take up the entire shoulder, and I would also take the side of the shoulder closer to the vehicles. Regardless of what is the right thing to do, it is weird that they didn't even acknowledge you or make any attempt to share the space.

Yeah, I was confused - if they cyclists were coming towards the OP then they were on the correct side of the road.

[malibu]

I was confused too, didn't dawn on me until patches said it.

[aurora]

Sounds like unfortunately you probably just encountered some rude cyclists. I would also have been running against traffic and would expect cyclists to leave me a little space by moving to single file rather than making me jump down an embankment to get out of their way. (I am assuming there was space for them to go to single file and pass you since you said "very wide" shoulder. If there wasn't space, then in that case as the runner I would probably just yield because I am also a cyclist and I know it's easier as a runner.)

[emilyj]

OP, how long were you actually in contact with the cyclists that you moved over to the wrong side of the road (for you) and ran the wrong way for traffic that you were supposed to?

The whole situation as you are describing it just sounds so weird. Were you constantly passing each other in a loop? I can't figure out why you were playing chicken, and you moved. If you passed cyclists, the whole encounter should have been a couple of seconds.

Regardless, in my town/area we have a ton of dedicated bike lanes. If I encounter a runner when I'm cycling, as long as there are no cars coming, I will swing out into the road and yield the bike lane to the runner. If there are cars coming and I can't do this, then I expect the runner to yield the bike lane to me. For the most part, if a runner sees me, they will automatically move into the grass. As much as I can, I will wave them back into the lane whenever possible.

[gumi]

I dont understand this situation. You were running on a road? And you think that a group of cyclist should move out of the way to accommodate you?

They should get first dibs at the road, IMO. As a runner, we can run over rocks, dash through grass, leap over manholes and easily come to a stop. A cyclist, especially a group of them, cannot do this. When you ride in a group, you expect the person in front of you to be straight and steady. They cannot easily swerve, or stop.

I dunno - I am a runner first and foremost but I have no issue getting out of the way of a cyclist. And as a cyclist, I appreciate runners that do!

The only time I have issues is on trails. Sometimes it seems like mountain bikers expect me to jump off the mountain to give them room. But that is a totally different topic.

[texassmith]

Jun 17, 2012 13:17:59 GMT -5 gumi said:

I dont understand this situation. You were running on a road? And you think that a group of cyclist should move out of the way to accommodate you?

They should get first dibs at the road, IMO. As a runner, we can run over rocks, dash through grass, leap over manholes and easily come to a stop. A cyclist, especially a group of them, cannot do this. When you ride in a group, you expect the person in front of you to be straight and steady. They cannot easily swerve, or stop.

I dunno - I am a runner first and foremost but I have no issue getting out of the way of a cyclist. And as a cyclist, I appreciate runners that do!

The only time I have issues is on trails. Sometimes it seems like mountain bikers expect me to jump off the mountain to give them room. But that is a totally different topic.

It was not a group. I encountered 3 separate, individual cyclists who paid no attention to the fact that I was on the road too. I finally just crossed to run on the right side of the road because I was tired of dodging them while they made no attempt to dodge me as well. I also have no problem sharing the road with them, but it'd be nice to be shown some courtesy in return.

[gumi]

Jun 17, 2012 13:58:55 GMT -5 texassmith said:

Jun 17, 2012 13:17:59 GMT -5 gumi said:

I dont understand this situation. You were running on a road? And you think that a group of cyclist should move out of the way to accommodate you?

They should get first dibs at the road, IMO. As a runner, we can run over rocks, dash through grass, leap over manholes and easily come to a stop. A cyclist, especially a group of them, cannot do this. When you ride in a group, you expect the person in front of you to be straight and steady. They cannot easily swerve, or stop.

I dunno - I am a runner first and foremost but I have no issue getting out of the way of a cyclist. And as a cyclist, I appreciate runners that do!

The only time I have issues is on trails. Sometimes it seems like mountain bikers expect me to jump off the mountain to give them room. But that is a totally different topic.

It was not a group. I encountered 3 separate, individual cyclists who paid no attention to the fact that I was on the road too. I finally just crossed to run on the right side of the road because I was tired of dodging them while they made no attempt to dodge me as well. I also have no problem sharing the road with them, but it'd be nice to be shown some courtesy in return.

oh when you said "several" i pictured them as a pack. i thought it seemed pretty entitled to think they should all swerve! but yeah, one cyclist on a wide shoulder? they should move over too.

and, when i do ride with a pack, we actually DO all get out of the way for a runner. The person leading the pack will warn, "runner up" and we form a single file pace line. It's easy enough but I dont expect it from others...I expect very little from people in general ;D

[texassmith]

Jun 17, 2012 14:23:50 GMT -5 gumi said:

Jun 17, 2012 13:58:55 GMT -5 texassmith said:

It was not a group. I encountered 3 separate, individual cyclists who paid no attention to the fact that I was on the road too. I finally just crossed to run on the right side of the road because I was tired of dodging them while they made no attempt to dodge me as well. I also have no problem sharing the road with them, but it'd be nice to be shown some courtesy in return.

oh when you said "several" i pictured them as a pack. i thought it seemed pretty entitled to think they should all swerve! but yeah, one cyclist on a wide shoulder? they should move over too.

and, when i do ride with a pack, we actually DO all get out of the way for a runner. The person leading the pack will warn, "runner up" and we form a single file pace line. It's easy enough but I dont expect it from others...I expect very little from people in general ;D

Haha. Yeah I guess my original post wasn't very clear. After the first cyclist, I thought "what a jerk." After the second, I figured I coincidentally encountered two jerks. After the third, I gave up.