I love this - Pope says he won't judge gay priests

[vicky]

news.yahoo.com/pope-says-wont-judge-gay-priests-111041448.html


This guy warms the cockles of my dark, jaded former Catholic heart.
If he keeps going with this stuff, I may end up back in church.

[cuddlyevil]

He is surprising me a lot. In a good way. He's still got a tough road ahead of him but he really does seem like he knows how much things have to change to win people back and keep them.

[vicky]

I honestly wonder what he meant by this.
"In one of his most important speeches delivered in Rio, Francis described the church in feminine terms, saying it would be "sterile" without women. Asked what role he foresaw, he said the church must develop a more profound role for women in the church, though he said "the door is closed" to ordaining women to the priesthood."

[circa1978]

Right? I love him. Jesuits are awesome.

[Deleted]

Jul 29, 2013 9:49:00 GMT -5 vicky said:

I honestly wonder what he meant by this.
"In one of his most important speeches delivered in Rio, Francis described the church in feminine terms, saying it would be "sterile" without women. Asked what role he foresaw, he said the church must develop a more profound role for women in the church, though he said "the door is closed" to ordaining women to the priesthood."

More bakesales!!!

No, I don't know, I wonder about that, too.  What would make the door closed?  I'm not up on Catholic doctrine.  Are there other leadership positions available for women?

[Deleted]

From what I understand, the female priest thing is a doctrine that cannot be changed (we have some of those).

[vicky]

Jul 29, 2013 9:52:30 GMT -5 ninjabridemom said:

Jul 29, 2013 9:49:00 GMT -5 vicky said:

I honestly wonder what he meant by this.
"In one of his most important speeches delivered in Rio, Francis described the church in feminine terms, saying it would be "sterile" without women. Asked what role he foresaw, he said the church must develop a more profound role for women in the church, though he said "the door is closed" to ordaining women to the priesthood."

More bakesales!!!

No, I don't know, I wonder about that, too.  What would make the door closed?  I'm not up on Catholic doctrine.  Are there other leadership positions available for women?

As far as I know, I think the Abbess is the highest role for a woman - the leader of the nuns in a community. But I'm not totally sure.

[Deleted]

What the church should do, IMO, is redefine the role of nuns. They won't make women priests, but if they work to make nuns more equal to priests, it won't really be an issue.

[Deleted]

I'm a dumbass, I forgot about the nuns.

What IS the doctrine, though? What's the reasoning for it / the wording? I'm just curious.

[VillainV]

This Pope definitely is taking the church in the right direction, I think. I'm interested in how all of this will pan out....will this result in REAL CHANGE in the Catholic church?

If so, I think I know a lot of people who will start going to church again.

[vicky]

Jul 29, 2013 9:57:26 GMT -5 @irishbride said:

What the church should do, IMO, is redefine the role of nuns. They won't make women priests, but if they work to make nuns more equal to priests, it won't really be an issue.

I think they should be able to perform sacraments, like marriage and anointing of the the sick. 

[Deleted]

Jul 29, 2013 9:58:13 GMT -5 ninjabridemom said:

I'm a dumbass, I forgot about the nuns.

What IS the doctrine, though? What's the reasoning for it / the wording? I'm just curious.

I'm a catholic. We don't actually know the details of our faith, lol. 

[Deleted]

Jul 29, 2013 9:57:26 GMT -5 @irishbride said:

What the church should do, IMO, is redefine the role of nuns. They won't make women priests, but if they work to make nuns more equal to priests, it won't really be an issue.

Wellll except there will be women who still feel marginalized b/c they want a more active priest-y role in Catholicism as they believe it.  Other religions (Episcopalian) may not give them the faithful/spiritual fulfillment.  ETA I first found out about the ordaining of women (Catholic) movement from this video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0S2WlvNTU8

I don't know.  I have yet to find, in any religion, a sound reason why women can't fulfill the same roles as men.  But the religions' reasoning is always interesting to me.

[Deleted]

Maybe women could be deacons?

[Deleted]

Jul 29, 2013 10:00:14 GMT -5 ninjabridemom said:

Jul 29, 2013 9:57:26 GMT -5 @irishbride said:

What the church should do, IMO, is redefine the role of nuns. They won't make women priests, but if they work to make nuns more equal to priests, it won't really be an issue.

Wellll except there will be women who still feel marginalized b/c they want a more active priest-y role in Catholicism as they believe it.  Other religions (Episcopalian) may not give them the faithful/spiritual fulfillment.

I don't know.  I have yet to find, in any religion, a sound reason why women can't fulfill the same roles as men.  But the religions' reasoning is always interesting to me.

Of course. But I'm talking about allowing nuns to do those things. It gets around it on a technicality. 

[vicky]

Jul 29, 2013 9:59:57 GMT -5 @irishbride said:

Jul 29, 2013 9:58:13 GMT -5 ninjabridemom said:

I'm a dumbass, I forgot about the nuns.

What IS the doctrine, though? What's the reasoning for it / the wording? I'm just curious.

I'm a catholic. We don't actually know the details of our faith, lol. 

You mean, it's not just what's in the Apostles' Creed?

[Deleted]

Oh I see, so equal in roles, different titles? Cool!

[Deleted]

Jul 29, 2013 10:02:13 GMT -5 vicky said:

Jul 29, 2013 9:59:57 GMT -5 @irishbride said:

I'm a catholic. We don't actually know the details of our faith, lol. 

You mean, it's not what's in just the Apostles' Creed?

I even mess that up still. 

Stupid word changes. I'm slow at embracing change.

[W.T.Faulkner]

I'm digging Francis so far; I love Jesuits, though.

Church's answer to women priests: Women can't be priests because Jesus' apostles were all men. Women can't be priests because it's not in their nature to be priests, since they never were. Nature and truth and following Jesus and all that.

My answer: Misogyny as a "Church Tradition" is much easier to maintain, as a status quo, than ordaining women and allowing women to witness, and possibly criticize, what the Church hierarchy has become.

Church's answer to nuns:  They have a SPECIAL ROLE!  The Church needs nuns as they are.  They can't do the jobs of priests because they are not priests!  They take vows of poverty, chastity and obedience to be as close to God as possible.

My answer:  Again, misogyny.

[Deleted]

Jul 29, 2013 10:02:31 GMT -5 ninjabridemom said:

Oh I see, so equal in roles, different titles? Cool!

Yes. That is the idea. I have no clue if its feasible but a girl can dream

[vicky]

Jul 29, 2013 10:03:10 GMT -5 @irishbride said:

Jul 29, 2013 10:02:13 GMT -5 vicky said:

You mean, it's not what's in just the Apostles' Creed?

I even mess that up still. 

Stupid word changes. I'm slow at embracing change.

haha you quoted as I was editing my brain fart.

meee too. i feel like it was so much longer when I was a kid.

[Deleted]

I used to go to an Episcopal church and would always fumble over the word "Apostolic." I don't remember if it's a creed or not but it was something about believing in the apostolic church.

W.T.Faulkner that's interesting. But women actually played a pretty role in Jesus, no? I don't know details but I've read some arguments for ordaining women that encompassed that. lucyhoneychurch or frkls might know more. I agree w your answer, Faulkner.

[cleo29]

First, let's give the nuns comparable living quarters to priests. In my elementary school the old nuns quarters were really depressing and kind of freaky.

What women being deacons? I can't remember what deacons are able to do vs. a priest.

[Deleted]

Jul 29, 2013 10:06:03 GMT -5 cleo29 said:

First, let's give the nuns comparable living quarters to priests. In my elementary school the old nuns quarters were really depressing and kind of freaky.

What women being deacons? I can't remember what deacons are able to do vs. a priest.

Our nuns lived in a water front house. The priest tried to kick them out and take it for himself, but the bishop stepped in and made him bunk up with other priests in a much more stark residence.


it was awesome. 

[coribelle26]

We have parishes around here run by both lay women and sisters since there aren't enough priests to go around as pastors. There's actually a big movement for more qualified lay people to fill that role. My dad is getting a free master's degree from a seminary because they need people so badly.

[W.T.Faulkner]

Comparable living quarters to priests can't happen because of the nuns' vow of poverty. They take a vow to have very few worldly possessions, and most priests don't take the same vow.

[W.T.Faulkner]

Jul 29, 2013 10:12:13 GMT -5 coribelle26 said:

We have parishes around here run by both lay women and sisters since there aren't enough priests to go around as pastors. There's actually a big movement for more qualified lay people to fill that role. My dad is getting a free master's degree from a seminary because they need people so badly.

This is the future of the Church in the United States, minus the sisters.

I live very close to a huuuuuuge seminary, built to accommodate hundreds of young men studying to be priests, and last I checked, there were fewer than seven men living there.

[cleo29]

Jul 29, 2013 10:12:14 GMT -5 W.T.Faulkner said:

Comparable living quarters to priests can't happen because of the nuns' vow of poverty. They take a vow to have very few worldly possessions, and most priests don't take the same vow.

Oh I know, I still think it is crummy that priest don't take the same vow.

[W.T.Faulkner]

Jul 29, 2013 10:15:35 GMT -5 cleo29 said:

Jul 29, 2013 10:12:14 GMT -5 W.T.Faulkner said:

Comparable living quarters to priests can't happen because of the nuns' vow of poverty. They take a vow to have very few worldly possessions, and most priests don't take the same vow.

Oh I know, I still think it is crummy that priest don't take the same vow.

I can't agree more.

I'm reading Unquenchable Thirst right now, a memoir of a former Missionary of Charity (the religious order founded by Mother Theresa).  The level of poverty in which they vowed to live was unreal, and she makes a point to mention that most priests don't take that vow.

At my own Catholic grade school, I remember the church priests having a flat-screen TV, a maid, a cook, and their own cars, and the nuns made their own meals and shared one car, even though they did most of the heavy lifting at the school.   Even my seven year-old self was pissed.  

[coribelle26]

I don't think flat-screen TVs existed until I was in college.