WWGBCNSPD: Donating Milk, random thoughts

[jennlin]

1) that sounds rough for no pumping. i would definitely ease slower!

2) i've heard of mom's requesting the purchase of milk bags. i've never actually seen it, but i think it's relatively normal.

3) why wouldn't you give it to him? he can have it from a cup. breast milk is still very beneficial to older children.

[shevacc]

Chiming in as a still pumping mom -- I send BM to daycare every day for them to give her in a cup in the toddler room. But...I'm scared to give her my stash bc I hadn't eliminated peanuts from my diet until after her reaction around 14 months old. Let me know if you find leads for donating.

[jennlin]

Aug 19, 2013 14:19:29 GMT -5 shevacc said:

Chiming in as a still pumping mom -- I send BM to daycare every day for them to give her in a cup in the toddler room. But...I'm scared to give her my stash bc I hadn't eliminated peanuts from my diet until after her reaction around 14 months old. Let me know if you find leads for donating.

i'm part of various moms groups on FB, and people post often about wanting/donating milk...maybe consider joining a group on FB?

[jennlin]

Aug 19, 2013 14:24:35 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Aug 19, 2013 14:19:29 GMT -5 shevacc said:

Chiming in as a still pumping mom -- I send BM to daycare every day for them to give her in a cup in the toddler room. But...I'm scared to give her my stash bc I hadn't eliminated peanuts from my diet until after her reaction around 14 months old. Let me know if you find leads for donating.

Our daycare doesn't allow it saying they don't have the state license that allows for it because bm is a bodily fluid and they can't stop toddlers from sharing. I've asked. I asked if I could send no spill sippies already packaged and they don't even have to worry about cleaning the cups and don't have to heat it up cause he's fine with it cold. They said no because of the toddler sharing issue. :/

Is yours a nationwide center or a localish daycare?

whhhaaa?? no! it's not supposed to be classified as a bodily fluid. it does not need to be treated as such in medical facilities, etc. it is considered food. how disappointing.

[shevacc]

Aug 19, 2013 14:24:35 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Aug 19, 2013 14:19:29 GMT -5 shevacc said:

Chiming in as a still pumping mom -- I send BM to daycare every day for them to give her in a cup in the toddler room. But...I'm scared to give her my stash bc I hadn't eliminated peanuts from my diet until after her reaction around 14 months old. Let me know if you find leads for donating.

Our daycare doesn't allow it saying they don't have the state license that allows for it because bm is a bodily fluid and they can't stop toddlers from sharing. I've asked. I asked if I could send no spill sippies already packaged and they don't even have to worry about cleaning the cups and don't have to heat it up cause he's fine with it cold. They said no because of the toddler sharing issue. :/

Is yours a nationwide center or a localish daycare?

Ours is a local daycare center, but what jennlin said, the bodily fluid BS is a total excuse. They just give it to her in her sippy cup while they sit at the table for lunch/snack. They watch ALL the kids to make sure they don't share any more germs than necessary.

Also, if one kid is lactose intolerant, are they going to make the entire class drink soy/alternate milk? Does the whole class avoid meat for a vegetarian? Food allergies are a different problem since they can be life or death, but they're being ridiculous.

Of course, if you're ready to be done sending milk, that's totally ok -- it's a real pain. But if you would rather keep on keeping on, they should be able to make "reasonable accommodations."

ETA - our toddler room doesn't have a fridge so to make things easier for them I send bottles (that they pour into sippies) in a cooler bag with an ice pack that keeps the milk cold all day.

[shevacc]

Aug 19, 2013 14:49:16 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Aug 19, 2013 14:45:28 GMT -5 shevacc said:

Ours is a local daycare center, but what jennlin said, the bodily fluid BS is a total excuse. They just give it to her in her sippy cup while they sit at the table for lunch/snack. They watch ALL the kids to make sure they don't share any more germs than necessary.

Also, if one kid is lactose intolerant, are they going to make the entire class drink soy/alternate milk? Does the whole class avoid meat for a vegetarian? Food allergies are a different problem since they can be life or death, but they're being ridiculous.

Of course, if you're ready to be done sending milk, that's totally ok -- it's a real pain. But if you would rather keep on keeping on, they should be able to make "reasonable accommodations."

ETA - our toddler room doesn't have a fridge so to make things easier for them I send bottles (that they pour into sippies) in a cooler bag with an ice pack that keeps the milk cold all day.

They offer coconut milk.

I just meant the argument that they couldn't give it bc some other toddler could drink it accidentally...in that case, couldn't the lactose-intolerant toddler drink someone else's "real" milk and get sick if they truly can't keep them from sharing?

[jennlin]

yeah...i get the non-bf'ers being squeamish about another mom's milk.. but that's still dumb.

also, the RCW doesn't say anything about milk alternative for children 12-24 mos..it only says for over 24 mos...so would they not serve bjl??!

[jennlin]

Aug 19, 2013 15:07:26 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Aug 19, 2013 15:04:55 GMT -5 jennlin said:

yeah...i get the non-bf'ers being squeamish about another mom's milk.. but that's still dumb.

also, the RCW doesn't say anything about milk alternative for children 12-24 mos..it only says for over 24 mos...so would they not serve bjl??!

I think this: (a) Breast milk or formula to children from birth to twelve months old. The parent or guardian may request breast milk or formula be served to their child after the child turns twelve months of age.

Covers breastmilk past 24 months, but it's all legalese and technicalities by that point.

well bjl is not on BM anymore because i just don't have enough. she takes almond milk mostly, other than some nursing here and there. it doesn't cover milk alternatives between 12-24 mos. at least i don't see it clearly.

[shevacc]

Aug 19, 2013 14:54:28 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Aug 19, 2013 14:51:35 GMT -5 shevacc said:

I just meant the argument that they couldn't give it bc some other toddler could drink it accidentally...in that case, couldn't the lactose-intolerant toddler drink someone else's "real" milk and get sick if they truly can't keep them from sharing?

True.

but I think people who don't breastfeed (and there are still al ot of those even in crunchy Seattle), would probably be squicked out by their child accidentally drinking someone else's breast milk. And the liability of that kind of lawsuit would be expensive to fight, even if they have no case.

Somehow, it's probably more acceptable if someone got sick from lactose intolerance than drinking some other woman's milk. (I see how people might think this, is all I'm saying.)

Pre-nursing, the idea of breast milk squicked me and I'm still not sure how I feel about Thor drinking someone else's milk fwiw.

I guess I'm still hung up on them supposedly not being able to prevent someone else from drinking Thor's milk. I get the weird feelings about it and am not sure how I would feel about G getting a stranger's BM (grumpy, but hardly ready to sue). Also, I'm sure babies sometimes get the wrong bottles by mistake and everyone has to deal bc they're not going to disallow BM for infants. 

Partly this freak out is me being terrified of G's life-threatening nut allergy and school/day care not protecting her from other kids' peanut butter...

[jennlin]

some schools "advise against" peanut products. some have a ban on peanut products. one girl on my BMB, her kid's school bans not only all peanut products, but products that also say "have been in the same facility as peanuts", which i think is excessive, but that's bc i don't have a kid allergic to nuts.


also, isn't coconut considered a "tree-nut", same allergen as almond? i guess in seattle, i could easily do hemp milk! or rice milk maybe...but like i said, it's not clear in the RCW, but i'm sure if the problem arose, it wouldn't be a big deal, unlike BM is.

[shevacc]

Aug 19, 2013 15:25:23 GMT -5 jennlin said:

some schools "advise against" peanut products. some have a ban on peanut products. one girl on my BMB, her kid's school bans not only all peanut products, but products that also say "have been in the same facility as peanuts", which i think is excessive, but that's bc i don't have a kid allergic to nuts.


also, isn't coconut considered a "tree-nut", same allergen as almond? i guess in seattle, i could easily do hemp milk! or rice milk maybe...but like i said, it's not clear in the RCW, but i'm sure if the problem arose, it wouldn't be a big deal, unlike BM is.

We avoid the "same facility as peanuts" products for G which sadly means we can't buy ANYTHING from a bakery (including Costco's baked goods and pre-prepared foods) . Unfortunately I have no way of knowing whether they just mixed the salad topping packets (containing nuts) on the same surface that they then rolled out the pizza dough on for take-and-bake pizzas. If they cleaned the surface but left even a small amount of nut "dust" it would be picked up by the pizza dough and could send us straight to the ER (or worse things I don't even want to think about). And we'd be caught completely off guard bc there should be no nuts in pizza.

So I totally understand that it would be a pain but I would be happy with that policy (especially in the pre-school/younger elementary school years). No nuts = pretty much no chocolate Halloween candy, no granola bars, no bakery goods, no to most breakfast cereals.

Coconut classification is apparently a hotly debated issue since most people who are tree-nut allergic aren't allergic to coconut. But some people are allergic to coconut. I think it's a separate allergen, though?

ETA - what spunbutterfly said re: coconut

[jennlin]

Aug 19, 2013 15:51:39 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

shevacc: Man, I guess this means a lot of Asian places, especially Thai is going to be hard for you guys too.. .:/

i thought this would be the case, but my cousin's baby eats with us at thai restaurants and they just say "peanut allergy", and they say "okay", and it's fine. i've gone twice with them, w/o a problem. mom carries an epi pen, for obvious reasons, though.

which kinda sucks, cause when i go i usually ask for extra peanuts, lol. but i get it..of course.

[jennlin]

guess i was wrong about coconut, oops! i thought it was considered a tree nut. my bad.

[shevacc]

Aug 19, 2013 15:51:39 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

shevacc: Man, I guess this means a lot of Asian places, especially Thai is going to be hard for you guys too.. .:/

We tried to go out for sushi this weekend and they couldn't be sure/couldn't be bothered to say their food was nut-free . Basically no Thai/Indian at all since they often use peanut butter as a sauce thickener, in addition to peanuts everywhere as topping, etc. For Chinese/Korean/apparently even sushi it would partly depend on the chef's grasp of English whether we would feel comfortable eating there, but as a general rule, no. Even Five Guys (fast food hamburger place) is out bc they have peanuts out in bowls around the restaurant as appetizers and Chick-Fil-A uses peanut oil.

Sadly we're often relegated to fast food, but right now I'd rather crappy food than worry myself sick over whether or not G is doing ok. We were in Portland last weekend and ate at McDonalds twice, Chipotle twice (they're completely nut-free), and Red Robin once. I had a stomach ache when we got home, but G was safe.

[shevacc]

Aug 19, 2013 15:59:35 GMT -5 jennlin said:

Aug 19, 2013 15:51:39 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

shevacc: Man, I guess this means a lot of Asian places, especially Thai is going to be hard for you guys too.. .:/

i thought this would be the case, but my cousin's baby eats with us at thai restaurants and they just say "peanut allergy", and they say "okay", and it's fine. i've gone twice with them, w/o a problem. mom carries an epi pen, for obvious reasons, though.

which kinda sucks, cause when i go i usually ask for extra peanuts, lol. but i get it..of course.

I may be willing to try this when she's old enough to tell me if something makes her feel funny. But not before she's much more verbal, we'll see. Also some people don't need to worry about trace amounts of peanuts, others do. Do they avoid the "facility that processes peanuts" stuff? They may not have to.

[jennlin]

Aug 19, 2013 16:01:46 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Aug 19, 2013 15:59:35 GMT -5 jennlin said:

i thought this would be the case, but my cousin's baby eats with us at thai restaurants and they just say "peanut allergy", and they say "okay", and it's fine. i've gone twice with them, w/o a problem. mom carries an epi pen, for obvious reasons, though.

which kinda sucks, cause when i go i usually ask for extra peanuts, lol. but i get it..of course.

Wow. Really?

I heard even touching things that might have touched peanuts can cause reactions in some people.

maybe his is less severe? i know that the first time he reacted she said his face ballooned up and he couldn't breathe. but i dunno how severe/normal that is...but to me, that sounds pretty scary.

[shevacc]

Aug 19, 2013 16:01:46 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Aug 19, 2013 15:59:35 GMT -5 jennlin said:

i thought this would be the case, but my cousin's baby eats with us at thai restaurants and they just say "peanut allergy", and they say "okay", and it's fine. i've gone twice with them, w/o a problem. mom carries an epi pen, for obvious reasons, though.

which kinda sucks, cause when i go i usually ask for extra peanuts, lol. but i get it..of course.

Wow. Really?

I heard even touching things that might have touched peanuts can cause reactions in some people.

It depends on the person -- some people are more sensitive than others. Unfortunately, in order to test exactly how allergic G is would involve risking sending her into anaphylaxis. So we go with what her allergist says.

[shevacc]

Aug 19, 2013 16:03:56 GMT -5 jennlin said:

Aug 19, 2013 16:01:46 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Wow. Really?

I heard even touching things that might have touched peanuts can cause reactions in some people.

maybe his is less severe? i know that the first time he reacted she said his face ballooned up and he couldn't breathe. but i dunno how severe/normal that is...but to me, that sounds pretty scary.

That sounds like G and definitely a severe reaction. Allergists (and moms) also vary a great deal in what they're comfortable with. I'm glad it's worked out for them, but I guess I would never forgive myself for the one time that it didn't.

ETA - which hopefully would still end up being ok after a huge ordeal involving an epi pen and the ER, sorry that sounded really morose

[jennlin]

Aug 19, 2013 16:08:05 GMT -5 shevacc said:

Aug 19, 2013 16:03:56 GMT -5 jennlin said:

maybe his is less severe? i know that the first time he reacted she said his face ballooned up and he couldn't breathe. but i dunno how severe/normal that is...but to me, that sounds pretty scary.

That sounds like G and definitely a severe reaction. Allergists (and moms) also vary a great deal in what they're comfortable with. I'm glad it's worked out for them, but I guess I would never forgive myself for the one time that it didn't.

ETA - which hopefully would still end up being ok after a huge ordeal involving an epi pen and the ER, sorry that sounded really morose

agree, that's too risky for me. i don't know what i'd do if my kids had a peanut allergy. i love thai food and eat it probably weekly (i make it at home, too).

[catbus]

I want to share more thoughts on this, but my day has gotten really busy. I do want to say that we just had an intake meeting with E's new head teacher for the toddler room he'll be transitioning to in a few weeks, and they will continue allowing bottles of breast milk until he hits one year (about a month after starting in that room) and after that she said it will be fine for me to send in breast milk to be offered exclusively or mixed with WCM. That teacher has been with the center for ten years, so I imagine she is well-versed in the policies. 

I know some policies vary center to center, but I don't think they are correct in saying it's against any regulations to send in BM. 

[shevacc]

Aug 19, 2013 16:11:09 GMT -5 jennlin said:

Aug 19, 2013 16:08:05 GMT -5 shevacc said:

That sounds like G and definitely a severe reaction. Allergists (and moms) also vary a great deal in what they're comfortable with. I'm glad it's worked out for them, but I guess I would never forgive myself for the one time that it didn't.

ETA - which hopefully would still end up being ok after a huge ordeal involving an epi pen and the ER, sorry that sounded really morose

agree, that's too risky for me. i don't know what i'd do if my kids had a peanut allergy. i love thai food and eat it probably weekly (i make it at home, too).

It sucks, but then you deal (sorta like cutting out dairy from your diet, right?).

I love Thai food, and peanut M&Ms, and my parents used to send me chocolate covered peanuts every year for Christmas from this place near their home in NC. Once I'm done nursing we may do a date night out to a Thai restaurant -- I have to give up peanuts until then bc she got bad eczema that her allergist attributed to peanuts in my diet. I had been eating peanuts out of the house before I learned it could transmit through BM (more mama guilt).

[catbus]

Aug 19, 2013 15:19:53 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Aug 19, 2013 15:18:55 GMT -5 shevacc said:

I guess I'm still hung up on them supposedly not being able to prevent someone else from drinking Thor's milk. I get the weird feelings about it and am not sure how I would feel about G getting a stranger's BM (grumpy, but hardly ready to sue). Also, I'm sure babies sometimes get the wrong bottles by mistake and everyone has to deal bc they're not going to disallow BM for infants. 

Partly this freak out is me being terrified of G's life-threatening nut allergy and school/day care not protecting her from other kids' peanut butter...

No one's allowed to bring peanut products in to schools anymore.

No peanut butter and jelly sandwiches as far as I know.

Our center is definitely peanut-free. I asked about this because *I* have a peanut allergy (no idea yet if E does, I am still conflicted on how to deal with it!) and they confirmed that they never have peanut products in the center.

[jennlin]

Aug 19, 2013 16:17:28 GMT -5 shevacc said:

Aug 19, 2013 16:11:09 GMT -5 jennlin said:

agree, that's too risky for me. i don't know what i'd do if my kids had a peanut allergy. i love thai food and eat it probably weekly (i make it at home, too).

It sucks, but then you deal (sorta like cutting out dairy from your diet, right?).

I love Thai food, and peanut M&Ms, and my parents used to send me chocolate covered peanuts every year for Christmas from this place near their home in NC. Once I'm done nursing we may do a date night out to a Thai restaurant -- I have to give up peanuts until then bc she got bad eczema that her allergist attributed to peanuts in my diet. I had been eating peanuts out of the house before I learned it could transmit through BM (more mama guilt).

cutting out dairy: was relatively easy for me, though. i'm not "strict" on it, and eat things with small amounts of it (hello, chocolate!), but i don't give those to her. most asian food is alreay dairy-free, and that's what i eat mostly. it really just came down to getting no-cheese on my hamburger, avoiding ice cream, and no more fancy cheeses. other than that, there's not a *huge* diet change for me. peanuts would be different/harder. but yes, of course, you just have to deal.

as for the peanut in BM, a friend of mine's DD is allergic to peanuts, she carries epi pen, etc..but her doc advised her to keep eating peanuts (and egg, DD also has egg allergy), bc it would accustom baby with the traces in the BM. but if your doc rec against it, then go with what your doc said, but this is what her doc said.

[shevacc]

Aug 19, 2013 16:24:14 GMT -5 jennlin said:

Aug 19, 2013 16:17:28 GMT -5 shevacc said:

It sucks, but then you deal (sorta like cutting out dairy from your diet, right?).

I love Thai food, and peanut M&Ms, and my parents used to send me chocolate covered peanuts every year for Christmas from this place near their home in NC. Once I'm done nursing we may do a date night out to a Thai restaurant -- I have to give up peanuts until then bc she got bad eczema that her allergist attributed to peanuts in my diet. I had been eating peanuts out of the house before I learned it could transmit through BM (more mama guilt).

cutting out dairy: was relatively easy for me, though. i'm not "strict" on it, and eat things with small amounts of it (hello, chocolate!), but i don't give those to her. most asian food is alreay dairy-free, and that's what i eat mostly. it really just came down to getting no-cheese on my hamburger, avoiding ice cream, and no more fancy cheeses. other than that, there's not a *huge* diet change for me. peanuts would be different/harder. but yes, of course, you just have to deal.

as for the peanut in BM, a friend of mine's DD is allergic to peanuts, she carries epi pen, etc..but her doc advised her to keep eating peanuts (and egg, DD also has egg allergy), bc it would accustom baby with the traces in the BM. but if your doc rec against it, then go with what your doc said, but this is what her doc said.

I would have a horrible time cutting out dairy

That's interesting re: peanuts in BM. The same thing had occurred to me but obvs I'm following the doctor's rec. One thing that comes to mind is that egg allergies are frequently outgrown whereas peanut allergies are much less likely to be. But I'm no expert.

[Deleted]

Back to your original question: I don't think it would be weird to ask them to buy the milk bags/bottles, especially if you're giving them the milk itself for free.