Is This Legal?

[panicked]

***I know you can't give me legal advice****

Backstory- I am a childcare provider on an Army post. Some other providers and I are in a FB group that is secret. You can't even find us by searching, you have to be invited. We use it mostly to network and find backup care for our kids, if need be. We have NEVER posted anything inappropriate, to include but not limited to any pictures, any child's last name, or anything derogatory about a client (parent or child). We don't even use the children's first name, unless someone asks. (For instance, if someone posts that they need someone to cover for a 2 year old, someone may ask the child's name). Yes, we do bitch about the office staff, but its no different than anyone else complaining about their job and we're not mean, just factual. And since we have no staff on the page, it's not like we're bullying or anything.

Today, a new provider mentioned to the staff that there was a FB page. I have no idea why, as she knew it was a secret. The staff demanded that she show them, which she did. They read through the whole page, got butthurt, deemed it inappropriate and demanded us to unlike the page and delete ANY FCC pages we are a part of. If we didn't comply, thy said we (as in our child care home) would be shut down and IG would be contacted. There is no trademark on the FCC name, nor were we inappropriate in any way. We changehave d the name of the group to something that didn't have anything to do with childcare, but that wasn't sufficient. They are now creating an SOP that states no Facebook pages can be made and we are not allowed to have groups with just providers in it (yes, seriously).

My question is can they really shut us down for this and isn't all of it a violation of free speech?

[ElizabethBennet]

I don't know why people continue to bitch about their employers online.

If you don't want your employer finding it online, then don't post it online. Regardless if it is "secret" (nothing really is) or not.

[panicked]

Aug 21, 2013 20:37:02 GMT -5 ElizabethBennet said:

I don't know why people continue to bitch about their employers online.

If you don't want your employer finding it online, then don't post it online. Regardless if it is "secret" (nothing really is) or not.

I have no problem telling them exactly what I have said to their face, nor does anyone else. In fact, most of the time, we do say what we write directly to them. This wasn't a "burn" page or anything like that. It's actually quite the opposite.

[lola]

Legal or not, I don't really imagine you want to take on the fucking Army. Shut it down. 

Also, time to be done with the secret sharer. For real, cut her out. 

[panicked]

Aug 21, 2013 20:41:03 GMT -5 lola said:

Legal or not, I don't really imagine you want to take on the fucking Army. Shut it down. 

Also, time to be done with the secret sharer. For real, cut her out. 

We've deleted the pages, but I have this icky "big brother" feeling about it all. I shouldn't have to worry that I'll lose my job because two providers have a conversation.

[margotmacomber]

Aug 21, 2013 20:41:03 GMT -5 lola said:

Legal or not, I don't really imagine you want to take on the fucking Army. Shut it down.

FUCKING WORD 

Because often dealing with the Army results in



save yourself the trouble, comply, baa, and move on. 

[Jalapeñomel]

Aug 21, 2013 20:42:48 GMT -5 panicked said:

Aug 21, 2013 20:41:03 GMT -5 lola said:

Legal or not, I don't really imagine you want to take on the fucking Army. Shut it down. 

Also, time to be done with the secret sharer. For real, cut her out. 

We've deleted the pages, but I have this icky "big brother" feeling about it all. I shouldn't have to worry that I'll lose my job because two providers have a conversation.

You work on a military base, the army is big brother.

[lola]

Aug 21, 2013 20:42:48 GMT -5 panicked said:

Aug 21, 2013 20:41:03 GMT -5 lola said:

Legal or not, I don't really imagine you want to take on the fucking Army. Shut it down. 

Also, time to be done with the secret sharer. For real, cut her out. 

We've deleted the pages, but I have this icky "big brother" feeling about it all. I shouldn't have to worry that I'll lose my job because two providers have a conversation.

You work on a US Military base. The US Government is the very definition of "big brother". 

Though, in your shoes, I'd be pissed off too. But place your anger where it belongs - on the secret sharer.

[panicked]

Aug 21, 2013 20:47:36 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Aug 21, 2013 20:42:48 GMT -5 panicked said:

We've deleted the pages, but I have this icky "big brother" feeling about it all. I shouldn't have to worry that I'll lose my job because two providers have a conversation.

You work on a military base, the army is big brother.

I am an independent contractor. The Army does not pay me. They like to make this *very* clear when we ask for for things like sick time.

[TrickyBob]

Well, it's secret so you guys obviously know it would ruffle feathers if it were public. So that should have tipped you off.

I'd be a bit upset with the person who shared but really? Don't create secret groups and discuss this stuff if you don't want to be shut down.

[RoxMonster]

I would be pissed at the secret sharer for sure. But I would shut the FB group down for sure and not talk about work on social media anymore.

I have so many friends who post critically about their jobs, employers, clients, etc. on FB and I just don't get it. And these are friends whose profiles are private to friends-only. But all it takes is for one co-worker who is a "friend" to say something and then shit hits the fan. I know you say you were not bashing people, but it sounds like you were talking about some of them in a not positive manner.

Regardless, so many people have been fired over what they post on FB, whether you or I or anyone thinks it's right or not, so it's a chance I wouldn't take.

[panicked]

Aug 21, 2013 20:50:46 GMT -5 TrickyBob said:

Well, it's secret so you guys obviously know it would ruffle feathers if it were public. So that should have tipped you off.

I'd be a bit upset with the person who shared but really? Don't create secret groups and discuss this stuff if you don't want to be shut down.

The reason it's secret is so that parents would not be able to see the group. They don't need to know about the staff problems we have. Like I said before, the amount of bitching on the page is actually quite minimal and we have said exactly what we write to the staff.

Ethics of a secret group aside, can they ban us from making groups and talking between ourselves?

[margotmacomber]

Aug 21, 2013 20:51:44 GMT -5 nicbreeful said:

Anything on the internet is as secret as a screenshot.

The army is a weird horse. I don't see how this is any different than, say, a childcare provider support/meet/trade tips/get ideas group (providing nothing is derogatory). But I think the army has different rules about all that. Can they actually force you to shut it down? No. But they may fire you for it.

I snorted at the first line.  Now if you could convince some of my younger sisters of this fact...

[CurlyQ284]

I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure the first amendment means you won't be imprisoned or killed if you speak freely...not that no consequences will happen to you ever.

[MrsAggie]

Aug 21, 2013 20:49:47 GMT -5 panicked said:

Aug 21, 2013 20:47:36 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

You work on a military base, the army is big brother.

I am an independent contractor. The Army does not pay me. They like to make this *very* clear when we ask for for things like sick time.

You still work on a military installation on government property. If you want to have rights, work somewhere else. They can and will shut you down. Don't fuck with the Army. It's not worth it.

[lola]

Ok. You're pissed. I get that. But listen. 

Maybe they can't make you shut it down. Maybe they can't forbid you from making private Facebook groups that you use to share information. Whatever. They probably can't. 

(And I don't get a lot of the abbreviations you used in your post also.)

BUT THEY CAN refuse to work with you. They can tell the entire fucking Army base to not bring their kids to you. They can refuse to let you on their base, or market on their base or work in any capacity on their base. 

So you're not being forced. You're being given options. You don't have to like the options but you still have them. 

[panicked]

Aug 21, 2013 21:00:15 GMT -5 @gracie6414 said:

I would start with the confidentially paper work. Or any paper work you and you employed signed with the DoD.... That should advise on legality.
Generally with any military, no business is conducted on any tool or application not provided pr sanctioned by that military.

I have NONE. None at all. I'm an independent contractor who runs a business. No one in the childcare office is military. It's overseen at the very highest levels by the DoD/Army, but short of the post commander, there is no one with rank in the chain.

[redheadk]

Aug 21, 2013 20:59:22 GMT -5 lola said:

Ok. You're pissed. I get that. But listen. 

Maybe they can't make you shut it down. Maybe they can't forbid you from making private Facebook groups that you use to share information. Whatever. They probably can't. 

(And I don't get a lot of the abbreviations you used in your post also.)

BUT THEY CAN refuse to work with you. They can tell the entire fucking Army base to not bring their kids to you. They can refuse to let you on their base, or market on their base or work in any capacity on their base. 

So you're not being forced. You're being given options. You don't have to like the options but you still have them. 

You can argue that it's not right until you're blue in the face but it comes down to this. 

I'd be most pissed at the person who spilled the beans and cut her out.

[PeonyParty]

I don't think they can ban you from making pages or groups, but I would always be apprehensive someone else would spill the beans. You had a secret spiller this time, what makes you think if you created another page the same thing wouldn't happen? Only next time you are aware of the fact that the person who contracts you asks you specifically to not to do such a thing which makes it worse.

If it's that important to you and the business (ie, coverage, etc.), I would ask someone in the chain (post commanders assistant maybe) to be a part of the group and use it strictly for business purposes.

[MrsAggie]

They won't shut the Facebook down, they will shut your business/job down. They can ban you from any military installation. They can also blacklist you which means soldiers are not allowed to use your services and could actually get in trouble for doing so. There were tons of blacklisted businesses at Ft Hood. Just back down, delete the page, apologize to the staff, and stop talking to the idiot that stirred up all of the drama.