Big Dog Questions

[effisia]

Good morning everyone!

I'm very new to these forums, but have already been finding great advice from reading the threads. My fiancé and I just bought a house that sits on just about a half acre. We're hoping to get a dog soon-ish. I am really interested in a large breed dog, but my only experience with owning dogs was the mini poodle I grew up with. Fiancé grew up with newfs and yorkies.

Most of my research has been on newfs, but I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions/thoughts on any large breed dogs? I don't mind shedding or drool or daily brushing or walks. We do have two cats, so a more laid-back breed would be good.

Are larger breeds harder to train than smaller? I know you have to worry about jumping and leash pulling more than you would with a yorkie. Also, neither of us have really ever crated our dogs. What would the benefits be besides potty training a puppy?

I'm trying to get as much info as possible before we go about adopting to make sure we find the best fit for us, so any advice would be more than welcome!

[kris356]

We currently have a english lab and an american bulldog. We also had a great dane/german shepard mix until last year. All three were crate-trained as puppies and stayed crated while we weren't home until they proved themselves trustworthy. Our mix was about 3 y/o and the lab was about 4. They were never crated at night but we never had issues.

If they are properly trained, then they are as easy to walk on a leash as a smaller dog. My 125 lb bulldog is amazing on a leash. He doesn't pull, walks next to you, doesn't care about other dogs. I love walking him. I cannot take the credit for this since he is rehomed to us, but it was one of the reasons I agreed to take him. Well that and he is freaking adorable!

My parents 19 lb mix is a crazy man on the leash although it is easier to handle than a large dog.

Also, if you are not set on a puppy, I would look at a slightly older dog. Our lab was almost a year when we got him and it was actually perfect. Our bulldog was 6. We did get our mix at 12 weeks but she was a sucker dog, since she was amazing easy to train and we had no housebreaking issues.

[Deleted]

Some larger/giant breeds can be difficult in training. I have experience with saint bernards, who are often very stubborn. I think it can be the same for some newfies and mastiffs. You have to start training EARLY if you want to get them as a puppy. If you are looking into a breeder, you will want to do your research to find a reputible breeder as large and giant breed dogs come with a host of medical issues.

Big dogs need to know and respect authority at all times. You can have issues with jumping and leash pulling, but sometimes these aren't much of an issue with a particular dog. I have gotten an older saint bernard from rescue who never jumped or pulled and really had a great disposition. I got another saint bernard from a reputible breeder that had a host of behavioral issues that were unworkable in our situation.

I honestly would recommend adopting an adult that already has a personality developed so you can basically know what you're getting yourself into. There are a lot of breed specific rescues out there. Even some reputible breeders will sell their champions (that have been fixed and are ready for home life) if you're looking for an older dog that already has a developed personality.

As with any dog, training and consistency is a must.

ETA: One other thing to consider is the increased cost of medical bills and food. It costs more to buy flea/tick and heartworm medicines for larger dogs and they will eat more food. If they have to have sugery, the cost can get high very quickly. Please consider these expenses.

[minniebee]

Some breeds have high prey drive, and are less likely to be cat-friendly. For example, I used to volunteer at a shelter, and I don't ever remember a husky testing well with cats. That doesn't mean every husky can't live with cats, but it's a tendency. I have a rottweiler mix, and he is not cat-friendly, which is fairly typical of his breed. He doesn't attack cats, he just chases them relentlessly, and that's a miserable situation for a cat. This is fine with us as we're totally not cat people :-)

There are some online surveys to help people figure out what breeds are good for them - they usually ask about how much time you're willing to dedicate to training & exercise, grooming, if the dog needs to be good with kids and/or other pets, etc. If you google "what breed of dog is right for me", you'll find several options. That would be a place to start, but of course, remember that not every dog fits the standard for its breed - dogs are individuals.

I'm not sure that big dogs are more difficult to train, but if they aren't trained well, they can be a lot more destructive and hard to handle, so training is absolutely necessary. If a little dog doesn't walk well on a leash, you can still handle the dog fairly easily, or if it jumps on people, they won't get knocked over. If a big dog is unruly on leash, it can be very difficult to handle, and if it jumps on people, it can knock them over.

I would also suggest working with a rescue where dogs are fostered in homes. They can tell you a lot about whether or not the dog's personality and energy level are a good fit for you.

Dogs don't have to be crated, but many people crate young dogs, especially when the dog is home alone, as a way to curb unwanted behavior (chewing up things it shouldn't be chewing, going potty in the house, etc). Also, for dogs that have separation anxiety and don't like being home alone, a crate can be a "safe place" for the dog. Some dogs get too anxious running loose in the house where unfamiliar sounds can be scary, and a crate provides a safe den-like place for them to be when home alone. We don't crate our dog, but when he first came to our house, we confined him to the laundry room when we weren't home just because we were unsure what his behavior would be like when home alone. He likes it in there - he has a bed and toys and a water dish and enough room to move around. Now, even if we leave the door open and he has access to the whole house when we're gone, we always find him sleeping on his bed in the laundry room when we return. He just thinks that's where he's supposed to be when we're not there.

As for cost of a big dog ... sure, they will eat more than a small dog. The costs of heartworm and flea/tick preventative are slightly higher for big dogs, but it's not a big difference. For example, I just looked up the price of Frontline flea/tick treatment, and a 3-month supply for small dogs (up to 22 lbs) is $35, and it's $38 for big dogs (89-132 lbs). So, not a huge difference.

[shortcake2675]

My experience is with Great Pyrs and my lovely old lady Newf.

Beamer, my Newf, is 105lbs of sass and attitude. She didn't join our family until she was almost 8, so I don't know anything about how was as a younger pup. But she's bright and easy to train, provided she wants to do it. She isn't safe with cats though. She's now 11 years old and has bone spurs in her back that cause her mobility problems, but otherwise is a very healthy dog.

I also have two Great Pyrs, Lexi and Sanka. I've fostered many previously as well.

Here's the rundown on the good and bad of Pyrs. I understand fur and drool don't bother you, but Pyrs are a unique breed besides the fluff and drool.

I love my dogs and I love the breed. Not everyone can be a Pyr owner.

They bark. Lexi thinking it's her job to protect us from the evil plotting squirrels, planes, intruding cats in our yard, and census agents. She is part of the dog communication chain in our neighborhood and sometimes starts it to warn other dogs in the neighborhood about the evil squirrels or sneaky cats.

They shed. Twice a year they drop chunks of fur (called blowing their coat) and the rest of the year mine just shed enough to make only put on black outside the house. More brushing would help mine some, but they would still shed. And they eat a high quality food.

They are not safe off leash. An off leash Pyr is a gone Pyr. They expand their territory to protect as they are on a walkabout. That can include neighbors that you've never met. The last time Lexi slipped out the front door, I found her a mile away from the house in the LDS churchyard. I'm happy in her older age she's slowing down some, previously I've chased her 2+ miles.

The only safe place for food is on top of the refrigerator or in the microwave. My Newf opened the oven a few months ago, so it's out. Lexi is tall and can reach the center of my dining room table without putting her feet on it.

Very independent animals. They will never be obedience champions. Mine consider each command and what you're offering in return and might comply if they agree. I know I've seen Lexi roll her eyes at me.

With my daughter they are mostly good. L is 2 now, so she interacts with them more than before. They seem like big huggable dogs, which they are not, and she's been snapped at before. Every interaction is supervised and we spend a lot of time talking about petting gently.

Pyr pits. It depends on the Pyr, but they all like to lay in them and most like to dig. Lexi prefers to not get dirty, so she lets Sanka or Beamer (my Newf) dig a pit and then steals it.

Vet costs can be high. Large breed dogs require more anesthesia than small breeds and more medication. I've been very lucky to have healthy dogs though and we don't see the vet often.

Mine eat Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream. Sanka eats 2 cups a day, the girls each 3 cups. We got through about 60 lbs of food a month. It costs about $100 for us.

So that's most of the bad. Now for the good.

They are great companions. Lexi will hike miles with my husband or sleep at his feet on the couch. Sanka loves a walk or a car ride as much as he loves to sleep. Couch potatoes in the house and rolling and tumbling outside.

If they get dirty, they aren't too bad to clean up. If mine get muddy, I wait for it to dry and then brush it out. We do baths and grooming appointments twice a year at blowout time. I don't have carpet in my house, which may have something to do with my laidback attitude.

When a Pyr gets zoomies, it's priceless.

They tend to house train easily. But I had one foster who was a nightmare.

They love you so completely. Lexi is a bit of a nut, but she is currently waiting by the door for MH to come back inside. She'll wait all afternoon because he's working outside today, but waiting is better than the whining she was doing. The rooing for her daddy can get pretty ridiculous.


This link is great additonal information: www.gpcgc.org/pyrforme.htm

Lexi is a Pyr I found at the local shelter. She had been kicked off her ranch for holding chickens down so the family schnauzer could pluck feathers off. We got her at 14 months old and she's now 5. She is a big slim girl at 100 lbs.

Sanka is a double dew clawed Pyr/Pyr mix or some other furry white breed. He's smaller (80 lbs) and more obedient, which is nice. He listens to mama more. He's 6 years old now.

And Beamer is the black one (technically she's gray). She's a Newfoundland we got free to a good home at age 7 and 11 months. Both she and Lexi were intended to be fosters, but I failed big time. She'll be 11 in May.

I hope this helps. I love Pyrs dearly, but they are not for everyone.

[janegold]

Jun 20, 2012 12:31:37 GMT -5 shortcake2675 said:

Pyr pits. It depends on the Pyr, but they all like to lay in them and most like to dig. Lexi prefers to not get dirty, so she lets Sanka or Beamer (my Newf) dig a pit and then steals it.

Oh yes, our Pyr mix LOVES this. Luckily she only has access to digging on beaches (we are in the city and don't have a yard) so we don't have any ruined landscaping.

Some of the other issues you mentioned have not been so bad for us. She is half Golden Retriever and I think this has had the effect of really mellowing some of the more traditional Pyr traits you mentioned. She barks occasionally (and LOUDLY) but no more than most other dogs; usually only if she is startled by a noise outside. She does not eat food off our counters and is generally very trustworthy indoors.

She is pretty independent, so we have to be cautious with her off-leash. She's never got lost or gone far from us, but she is quite stubborn and won't come back immediately when called. She LOVES other people (especially kids) and dogs so will almost surely go to check them out. I definitely agree with your assessment of Pyrs weighing their options on whether they will obey or not. It often has to involve some sort of reward for her.

She DID housetrain extremely easily, which was such a blessing for us! She doesn't drool a lot but the shedding in the spring is out of control! Her coat is generally very easy to take care of. She loves to hug and kiss us every day when we get home, but isn't too snuggly beyond that (which I'm actually glad for, b/c her white fur gets all over me). Overall, she's very laid back and not super high energy.

The Golden/Pyr mix tends to be really awesome, in general. We adopted her through a rescue agency that works primarily with this mix. Feel free to reach out if you'd like more info.

[welder'swife]

ILs have a 164-lb Newf. He is the most stubborn dog I've ever met. But, he's great with kids. I can't stand how much he sheds and drools, though. I always keep my shoes on in their house because I'm sick off stepping in drool, and when we eat over there, I'm constantly pulling his hair out of my food. He likes to escape their yard (because they NEVER are out there with him, nor do they secure him on a tie out or behind the fence) and wander around the neighborhood, usually ending up in the lake, so he smells pretty bad most of the time. The only time I've seen him aggressive is when my younger BsIL are wrestling, Noah will butt in, and when he had something going on with his neck, and he was in pain, he took a good chunk out of BIL's hand. When taking him for a walk, he goes where he wants, there is no controlling him. He pulls so freaking hard. Also, he usually just lays around on the cement floor in the garage. I don't think they let him outside a lot because he wanders off.

[maddysmum]

Lots of good info.

I agree that bigger dogs aren't harder to train, but that a poorly trained big dog is a lot more difficult day to day because of their strength. Our Newf is lovely, but has leash issues when confronted by off leach dogs. Totally normal, and a real pain in the ass around here because everyone lets their dogs off leash everywhere. We keep Rosie leashed because she's a runner with less than stellar recall if she's fixated on something and that makes walks a challenge. We're working on it, but that's hard too because she's so strong that if she bolts, I can't hold on. So, the training is less constant than we'd like because only my husband can control her.

We got her as an adult, by the way, so we're correcting post-us behavior.

So, that's reason enough to really, really work on basics when they are little and not too huge to handle.

Crating is imperative - our beast is a food thief and of something so big and clumsy, she sure is stealth when there's food available! Again, because of her size, she can reach a lot more than a smaller dog and do a lot more damage. That's really become less of an issue now that she's confident and comfortable with us. And she took to the crate right away - she puts herself to bed at night in it even though we don't crate her at night!

Newfs are lazy. She still has the puppy-stupids once in awhile and HOLY CRAP it sounds like the house is coming down. You should see the kids - they hear her start up and both brace themselves and cling to a wall! But she spends the majority of her time laying.

She also escapes. She must check the backyard every time she goes outside! And that one time that the gate wasn't latched properly by the gardeners, she finds it. Currently, her and the neighbor's new dog are bashing a hole through the fence to get to each other.

She's dominant for a Newf, which is pretty relative. On equal footing, at doggie daycare or the dog park, she's totally fine. But on a leash, when approached by unleashed dogs, she's an idiot.

All in all, Newfs are our breed!

[effisia]

Thank you all so much! This is really great info.

In regards to the cost, we ARE waiting until FI gets a new job so we can be confident that we can cover all the vet/food/etc bills that come up.

If I'm going to be perfectly honest, I have some reservations about the way he's been raised in regards to dogs (ie letting a dog live in the backyard most of the time or being lax with vet care). I really want to be certain that I have as much info as possible so I can train HIM as much as the dog.

I'll also definitely be sure to look into rescues around the area. We adopted our cats from the shelter and I always do prefer adopting, though my poodle growing up was purebred. My father was allergic and wanted to try to minimize allergy problems.

For training, most of my research has lead me to positive reinforcement and clicker training, and I've already looked into several trainers/schools around us for that. It seems like a really great way to go about things. I've only ever trained a cat before, and that's just a giant pain in the ass. AND I only ever got her to listen to "sit". Unless you count "completely ignore me and roll your eyes" as a command... She was really good at that one.

Oh, and shortcake: Your pyrs sound amazing. I've always thought they were stunning dogs when I've seen them.

[shortcake2675]

What part of the country do you live in? It's often easy to find purebred large/giant breeds in rescue.

This is my favorite pic of my three.


And I forgot to tell you my favorite story about Beamer. Following Thanksgiving, I had a bag of flour still in a grocery bag on the floor in the kitchen. Our kitchen was baby gated off on both sides, with one side a 3" tall gate and the other side with 2 shorter gates. I came home from work to find the two gates down with Beamer smiling at me by the door and flour everywhere.






I also forgot to mention that I use properly fitted prong collars to walk my dogs. It's a decision I stand by because if I'm walking two or even all three, they outweigh me and on occasion, Lexi has been known to bolt. Most of the time they walk on loose leash, at a heel if requested. It took time to train them to walk on a loose leash and in the beginning Sanka, if walked on a regular collar, would choke himself. The prong resolved that and I can walk them on a regular collar now, but don't if I'm walking them further than to the car.

[maddysmum]

shortcake2675 - Any chance you tried a Gentle Leader? We bought one for the beast so I'd love to hear your experience if you've used anything like that?

And wow...does that scene look familiar. Our Newf would have been SO PLEASED with herself!

[jenni232323]

Jun 20, 2012 18:58:37 GMT -5 maddysmum said:

shortcake2675 - Any chance you tried a Gentle Leader? We bought one for the beast so I'd love to hear your experience if you've used anything like that?

We use the easy walk harness for our 100# poodle - works great.

GL on the new pet search. Since you're familiar with poodles - you could just get a giant one Completely different temperament than the smaller ones from what I've been told. Our standard poodle is my first dog, but DH has had them all his life.

[katietornado]

We foster retired racing greyhounds. Our own grey is about 100 pounds (he's a large male...average is around 80 pounds). They're super laidback, easygoing dogs. They're well socialized with people and other dogs from birth, and it seems like when they retire, they're SO excited to get to have people to themselves. They love to go for long walks if you want to, but if not, they're happy to sack out on the couch for hours. We have 3 cats, and about 75% of greyhounds can live with cats (rescue groups "cat test" them).

I tend to think that greys are perfect for pretty much everyone. They're low maintenance in almost every way (they're not puppies anymore, they're well socialized, they're already crate trained, they walk well on leash, they're lower energy, they barely shed, they don't stink, etc), and you get all the benefits of having a dog without some of the hassle (exercise, shedding, drooling, etc). We also have an Australian Kelpie (65-pound herding dog) and, um...never again. Cal needs 2+ hours a day of exercise to be happy. This Friday is our 5th gotcha day with him and we've pretty much been exhausted for 5 years...though we love him to death There's a reason we can foster 3 to 4 greys at a time...they're awesome, easy dogs!

[effisia]

Soooo no leaving my flour anywhere accessible ever: check!

You know, I've never actually even thought about a standard poodle. I think it just never crossed my mind because I didn't exactly get along with my dog so well growing up. Sibling rivalry, I guess (I'm an only child) and I think I annoyed him. It's been known to happen.

At the time, I'd really wanted a cat and I think he knew that. But with my dad's allergies... Ironically, my parents divorced about three months after we got him.

However, I do know that he was an EXCELLENT companion for my mom. Especially going through the divorce. He adored her and he was smart as a whip.

Going completely off topic here, but I love this story: I finally did get a cat when I was around fourteen. Beautiful cat. Well, when I went off to college, our poodle was really getting up in years and started losing his sight and hearing. Cleo, the cat, would wrap her tail around the back of his neck and lead him around the house so he wouldn't bump into things. She was his seeing eye cat!

As for greys, I do like them a lot. The kennel where we keep the cats sometimes is also the local grey rescue group and the dogs are always there to greet us. Then immediately go back to their dog beds and nap. I think I will look into that. Seems like a great option. I really would rather adopt from the shelter or rescue. The shelter, however, is filled with pits and pit mixes. I have no problem with this, but my FI and my mother both put their foot down after I tried to explain that they're good dogs given a bad rep by evil people. Fell on deaf ears :/

The greys, though, would definitely feel like we were giving a second chance. Of course, after research, FI still has his heart set on a newf. And not just any newf, a newf puppy. I'm not one to turn down a puppy and I'm sure if he gets one in front of me I'll be all melty, but I worry about their little bitty bladders with both of us working all day.

Though, depending on the new position he gets he may be able to bring a dog with him to work (which makes me super jealous). The people in my office had to battle to allow their dogs to come in today for Take Your Dog to Work Day.

Alright. Enough with the rambling! Again, thank you all so much for the great advice. It's given me a lot to think about!