Is anyone a veterinarian?

[greencrayon]

I typically hang out on GP and MM, but I thought I'd ask here! I'm planning on joining the army after grad school. I was wondering if anyone used the military to pay for higher education... I have a ton of questions. TIA!

[verycontrary247]

My aunt is a veterinarian and was AD then reserve Army.

[sushi]

Do you mean pay for education you don't have yet? Or to pay back on your loans?

[greencrayon]

Grad school is paid off, but I plan on going to vet school afterwards. So pay for education I don't have yet.

[beans]

I am in the middle of applying for the Air Force scholarship for psychology (Health professionals scholarship program- HPSP veterinarians fall under that arena, unless I am mistaken) So I could maybe answer some questions 

[iluvmytxrgr]

The Army is the only branch of our military that has Vets and Vet Techs. Most of the vets I've known enter after they've finished vet school. The vet my husband currently works with is using the loan repayment program to pay off his schooling.

[SusanBAnthony]

Don't go to vet school. Really, don't. The pay is so so so bad, you will never get out from under the loans.

[greencrayon]

Aug 28, 2013 19:34:13 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Don't go to vet school. Really, don't. The pay is so so so bad, you will never get out from under the loans.

Well, that's why I plan on joining the army. They pay for school. I'd rather do something I love and get paid shit than do something I hate and get paid well. 

[greencrayon]

Aug 28, 2013 6:31:36 GMT -5 iluvmytxrgr said:

The Army is the only branch of our military that has Vets and Vet Techs. Most of the vets I've known enter after they've finished vet school. The vet my husband currently works with is using the loan repayment program to pay off his schooling.

I'm confused about the timing, I guess. I'm wondering if you apply to the army after you get into vet school before you start, or afterwards and have the military pay off your loans? I'll either be 27 or 31/32, and that changes the category I'd be in for the APFT. I'm pregnant so I need to know how much I need to get my ass in gear, lol. Do I need to lose the weight ASAP or can I wait until after I'm through Vet school?

[beans]

Aug 28, 2013 21:06:48 GMT -5 greencrayon said:

Aug 28, 2013 6:31:36 GMT -5 iluvmytxrgr said:

The Army is the only branch of our military that has Vets and Vet Techs. Most of the vets I've known enter after they've finished vet school. The vet my husband currently works with is using the loan repayment program to pay off his schooling.

I'm confused about the timing, I guess. I'm wondering if you apply to the army after you get into vet school before you start, or afterwards and have the military pay off your loans? I'll either be 27 or 31/32, and that changes the category I'd be in for the APFT. I'm pregnant so I need to know how much I need to get my ass in gear, lol. Do I need to lose the weight ASAP or can I wait until after I'm through Vet school?

The health care fields seem to work somewhat the same regardless of specialty (dentist, medical dr, psyc, vet, etc) from my research. There are programs for joining after school or during/before (different specialties offer different scholarship or payback amounts). I am doing the scholarship thing right now- the process is apply now, get commissioned and I'll go to commissioned officer training before my internship year (after my 4th year of school). On internship I'll be an active duty captain. While in school I'll be a reservist Lt. You'll need to read the link stan put in and/or do some research on how many years of school they'll pay for for vet school (med school they pay for all years, psych pays for either 2 or 3, don't get me started on that! Lol). If you apply for the scholarship like me, you have to make weight and pass MEPS now to get the scholarship but won't have to pass a fitness test until basic training time. Some med students go to basic over one if the summers while they're in school but my school has summer classes so that's why I'll go right before internship (which is like a medical residency). If you get the scholarship you get school/books paid for and a stipend which right now is about $2000 a month.

For joining when you're done with school and having them pay back loans your have to go in ready to pass all fitness standards. But also if you do it that way, there may be some restrictions like you have to be fully licensed first. You'd have to look into it specifically for vets.

Also you will need to talk to specifically a health care recruiter, general officer recruiters won't know about the intricate details and won't be able to help you get what you need for this.

[iluvmytxrgr]

I spoke to one of the vets my husband works with. He said you need to get accepted into a program first, then speak to a medical officer recruiter. You'll get a stipend every month and pay during summer and school breaks. He and most other vets he's worked with joined after they finished because the pay in the Army was far better and they are able to pay off their loans faster than in the "real world".
You'll have all sorts of opportunities you won't working as a civilian vet. There are training facilities, research facilities, breeding programs, regular clinics and more. Some of the first females entering into Special Forces and Special Operations units are going in as vets and vet techs. There are some really awesome opportunities as a vet in the Army. There are still deployments, for some. Though, they are usually only a few months long. You can also go on great humanitarian missions.

[greencrayon]

Thank you! I know that there will be deployments, but we've been through that before (just the other way around! DH is inactive reserve USMC.) It looks like there are a ton of opportunities for additional degrees/certifications and the pay seems great compared to someone fresh out of vet school. If I put in my 20 years (I'm considering it, but I won't know what I want to do until I join) I'll be able to retire at 51, which seems amazing.

[hilwithonelary]

I just want to butt in and say that make sure you want to join the Army because you want to join the Army, not because it sounds like a good way to pay off your loans. I freely admit that I joined the Air Force as a pharmacist for all the wrong reasons, and I was MISERABLE the entire time. At my lowest point, I was contemplating suicide. I jumped at the chance when they announced a voluntary early separation program even though it meant I had to pay back $10000 of my sign on bonus. Seriously think about what Army life will mean before you commit to anything. Talk with current active duty veterinarians and ask them to be honest with you about what their day to day lives are like.

[greencrayon]

Aug 29, 2013 21:18:55 GMT -5 hilwithonelary said:

I just want to butt in and say that make sure you want to join the Army because you want to join the Army, not because it sounds like a good way to pay off your loans. I freely admit that I joined the Air Force as a pharmacist for all the wrong reasons, and I was MISERABLE the entire time. At my lowest point, I was contemplating suicide. I jumped at the chance when they announced a voluntary early separation program even though it meant I had to pay back $10000 of my sign on bonus. Seriously think about what Army life will mean before you commit to anything. Talk with current active duty veterinarians and ask them to be honest with you about what their day to day lives are like.

That's not butting in at all. It's great advice. My husband hated the military but I think the structure and regulations would be good for me, rather than being my own boss. I'm not that organized or self motivated. What made you so miserable, if I may ask?

[hilwithonelary]

Oh boy. How do I explain my misery briefly? First, I was not prepared at all for the sheer amount of bureaucracy and red tape. I estimate that I spent 2-3 hours a day practicing pharmacy, and the rest of my time attending pointless meetings and doing paperwork. I incorrectly assumed that as a brand new pharmacist, I'd spend most of my time being a pharmacist and that leadership would come later. Instead, I was the officer in charge.

I had poor leadership. My first flight commander gave very little guidance or performance feedback. I had to figure out everything myself. For example, about a month after arriving, I happened to find a binder called "operating instructions" and thought it sounded like something I should read. It was the complete description of the standard operating procedures for the pharmacy. Months later, my flight commander said, "Oh, have I had you read the OIs yet?" My second flight commander was one of the dumbest pharmacists I have ever met. I ended up doing most of his job in addition to my own. This is when my stress level went through the roof. I got terrible insomnia. My squadron commander was a micromanager who would fly off the handle seemingly randomly.

Childcare was a big stressor. DH is an active duty pilot who traveled and deployed frequently. We had frequent exercises with 12 hour shifts. DS was being sent home constantly from the CDC for mythical fevers that almost never showed up on my thermometer at home. If your DH has a flexible job, this will not be as big a problem for you.

PT was another big stressor. We had a schedule of 6:45 am on Tuesdays and Thursdays and 4 pm on Mondays and Wednesdays. I'm not naturally athletic at all. Our pt sessions hardly ever included running, my biggest weakness. I desperately wanted to work on running, but it was almost impossible to squeeze in between mandatory pt, trying to get my work done, being limited to 10 hours a day at daycare, and DH being gone frequently. I failed the run on my last pt test, which just made my situation more miserable.

My recommendation is that you not join the Army unless 1) you are interested in being a leader, 2) you don't mind office politics, 3) you are prepared for bs meetings, computer based training, and paperwork, 4) your DH has a flexible job that can move around easily , and 5) you are at least a little bit athletic

[iluvmytxrgr]

Aug 29, 2013 22:57:08 GMT -5 hilwithonelary said:

Oh boy. How do I explain my misery briefly? First, I was not prepared at all for the sheer amount of bureaucracy and red tape. I estimate that I spent 2-3 hours a day practicing pharmacy, and the rest of my time attending pointless meetings and doing paperwork. I incorrectly assumed that as a brand new pharmacist, I'd spend most of my time being a pharmacist and that leadership would come later. Instead, I was the officer in charge.

I had poor leadership. My first flight commander gave very little guidance or performance feedback. I had to figure out everything myself. For example, about a month after arriving, I happened to find a binder called "operating instructions" and thought it sounded like something I should read. It was the complete description of the standard operating procedures for the pharmacy. Months later, my flight commander said, "Oh, have I had you read the OIs yet?" My second flight commander was one of the dumbest pharmacists I have ever met. I ended up doing most of his job in addition to my own. This is when my stress level went through the roof. I got terrible insomnia. My squadron commander was a micromanager who would fly off the handle seemingly randomly.

Childcare was a big stressor. DH is an active duty pilot who traveled and deployed frequently. We had frequent exercises with 12 hour shifts. DS was being sent home constantly from the CDC for mythical fevers that almost never showed up on my thermometer at home. If your DH has a flexible job, this will not be as big a problem for you.

PT was another big stressor. We had a schedule of 6:45 am on Tuesdays and Thursdays and 4 pm on Mondays and Wednesdays. I'm not naturally athletic at all. Our pt sessions hardly ever included running, my biggest weakness. I desperately wanted to work on running, but it was almost impossible to squeeze in between mandatory pt, trying to get my work done, being limited to 10 hours a day at daycare, and DH being gone frequently. I failed the run on my last pt test, which just made my situation more miserable.

My recommendation is that you not join the Army unless 1) you are interested in being a leader, 2) you don't mind office politics, 3) you are prepared for bs meetings, computer based training, and paperwork, 4) your DH has a flexible job that can move around easily , and 5) you are at least a little bit athletic

Please don't take this as me being rude.  I'm asking because I'm really curious.  Did you not know anything about the Air Force or military in general before you joined?  

[hilwithonelary]

Well, my DH had been AD for 3 years when I joined, so I feel like I knew more than most, but so much of what I experienced was different than DH. He's a pilot. When he showed up to his first flying assignment, he flew his ass off. He had an office job as well, but he wasn't in charge and he certainly wasn't rating anybody, especially not an 18 year MSgt. He didn't rate anyone until about 6 years in. I expected that I'd spend a few years learning the ins and outs of how an Air Force pharmacy runs, and then step up and be in charge later. If I was expected to be in charge right off the bat, I sure would have expected some kind of training when I showed up. Not, "oh, have I shown you the OIs?" months after arriving. Not a 5 minute initial feedback session 6 months after showing up. Not having to use the break room computer for weeks despite repeatedly asking that the head civilian technician move out so I could use the office reserved for the OIC. When I left, I created a 10 page document outlining the basics of running the pharmacy, including links to over a dozen instructional PowerPoint presentations I had made and over 30 other useful documents and websites so that hopefully, the new officer would have an easier time.

DH assured me that there was no pt in the "real" Air Force. Even now that he's been in 8 years, he's never experienced mandatory pt, especially not with the annoying schedule of a late afternoon followed by an early morning. Before I joined, I knew the fitness standards, knew I could pass, and knew it would take some work. Then they changed the fitness standards while I was pg, and it was a struggle for me to meet the minimum run time. Before, I had relied on doing well in the other categories to boost my score, but once the standards changed, it became very difficult for me to pass. I actually passed my first post partum test with a decent score, but I had spent the previous 5 months doing a program on my own designed by an exercise physiologist. Once I had to go back to squadron pt, it was harder for me to stay in shape.

I really thought that the Air Force would be a great way for me to move around with DH... I wouldn't have to get a new license everywhere we moved. On the surface, the hours were far better than 95% of civilian pharmacist jobs. I was thoroughly familiar with the duties of a pharmacist. I honestly didn't think that being an Air Force pharmacist could be all that different. I was horribly mistaken.

[hilwithonelary]

I will also say that I found many other officers in the Med Group to be highly dissatisfied, especially once it came out that I was separating. Doctors, nurses, and administrators alike opened up to me to say that they hated it, that they were counting down the days until the could separate, and that they regretted ever joining. It might have just been where I was stationed. My NCOIC, the MSgt with 18 years, came to my base with lots of enthusiasm and a good attitude. By the time I left, she was also miserable. She said she'd never seen such poor leadership in her career and couldn't believe how the MDG treated its people. My DH has said many times that the Air Force I experienced was not the one he knew.

[hilwithonelary]

Sorry for hijacking the post...

I definitely agree that COT did nothing to prepare me for being an officer. It was tough, but only because of the sleep deprivation. You got yelled at for the first part, but (this may sound silly) I got used to being yelled at in 4 years of marching band. I could tune it out and it didn't really bother me. The PT wasn't bad, and it mainly consisted of running, push ups, and sit ups... you know, the things we're tested on. The worst part of it was that it was at 5 in the morning. The academics weren't difficult. The hard part was that there was so much material in such a short time. Basically, in 5 weeks, you learned how to wear a uniform, how to salute, and got used to saying "sir" and "ma'am" all the time. There was no way you could retain even a tenth of the history, leadership theory, etc. that was taught.

I also maintain that leadership isn't something you can fully learn from a book or a class. You need to see it. You need practice. You need feedback. This isn't happening in Air Force pharmacy. If I had stayed in, I'm well aware that I would have been equally as incompetent as the 2 different supervisors I had during my time on active duty.

On another note, I think that the whole Air Force medical field could be revamped. Why do there need to be active duty clinicians at a small clinic? How prepared do you think that the family practice docs felt when they went from treating sore throats, sprained ankles, hypertension, and diabetes to being deployed to a combat hospital? I know I would have been completely overwhelmed if I had deployed to a hospital because I don't have much inpatient experience.

I think the military could be better served by creating more GS clinician positions in small clinics and concentrating active duty ones to large facilities. That way, they could get the experience needed to deploy. Also, there would be a large enough officer pool that entry level officers could learn the ropes, and those more suited to leadership could move up.

[hilwithonelary]

Aug 30, 2013 11:46:25 GMT -5 Stan said:

I have no doubt that 5 weeks vs. 9 months (USMC OCS/TBS) just doesn't compare. Would medical/religious professionals join if they had that kind of intensive training on top of so much civilian professional school? I don't know what the right answer is. I do know as I prepare for traditional Basic followed by traditional OCS and BOLC, I'm glad the primary emphasis is going to be on being a Soldier and an Army Officer first, and my job specialty second. Of course, my job specialty will not require anywhere even close to the training necessary to be a medical professional, religious professional, or lawyer.

I completely understand this philosophy as it relates to most military jobs.  In my experience, many people in the medical field that join the military think they'll be a physician/nurse/pharmacist first and an officer second.  I think it's only natural when you've spent years training for your specialty.  If you've spent 10+ years to become a physician, I'm sure you're ready to go out there and practice medicine.  I certainly thought, "Hey, this will be great!  I can be a pharmacist AND I can serve my country at the same time!"  Either they need to focus recruiting on people who are interested in officership, or they need to change the culture so that it's acceptable to simply be a good health care provider while not necessarily being focused on moving up the ladder.  Or, like I mentioned earlier, creating more GS positions to provide patient care while the active duty members focus on being leaders.  In my dealings with recruiters, all the talk was about the great technicians I'd have, the lack of insurance headaches, the opportunities for providing direct patient care... all relating to pharmacist duties, and all of which were true to some extent.  Never was their any talk of pharmacy officer duties, which took up the majority of my time. 

[beans]

Aug 29, 2013 14:08:35 GMT -5 iluvmytxrgr said:

 You'll get a stipend every month and pay during summer and school breaks.  

I just wanted to expand on this- the way the scholarship program works, its a year long scholarship but 45 days a year (typically summer) you are "Active Duty" - you get active duty pay and benefits (like BAH, full medical, etc). For me, since my school is year round with no summer breaks, that doesn't really look different other than getting a different pay check, I'll be considered "active duty at school" but if you do have summer breaks without classes, like many med schools, you could go work at a local/nearby clinic/base during that "Active Duty 45 day tour" which could be a cool opportunity.