So, let's talk seriously - Syria

[rjamz]

WDYT?

I personally am so torn. On the one hand, Assad committed a horrible war crime. I can't even look at the footage without feeling a profound sense of despair deep within me. On the other hand, I don't want our troops on the ground there. And I'm also worried about the repercussions, not just to us, but to Israel and other allies in the area, and on the Syrian citizens themselves. Plus, Syria is backed by Russia. I know we're not BFF with the Russians, but that's a major country to piss off.

But I think, when it comes down to it, we need to do something to protect those people.

ETA: fixed the poor grammar in the title

[charlielove]

It is just devastating to read and see what is happening there. I hope the missile attack that we have planned scares them into stopping, but in reality I know it probably won't. Those poor people there.

[vthokie]

I'm torn too. But since Obama sort of drew the line in the sand, I think something has to be done so we don't look like wimps. I don't want to put troops in the ground though.

[imimahoney]

Oy, who knows. I am legitimately scared about Russia. China, not so much, but Putin is unstable and a crazy ass. I think Obama will hit some military target but doubt he will do more. Putting boots on the ground, in a situation like this, could end terrible. Last thing we need is Iran getting in to the mix.

[Deleted]

Idk. It's so hard. I would hate to be the person saying what our next steps are. Maybe do something not as drastic and make Syria a no flyzone in hopes to hurt their military a lot?

[Deleted]

I'm torn. I say no to just American troops on the ground but I would support some troops if they were from others countries too. The Syria government is f-upd and I don't see them stopping without external intervention, which I hate. I wish they would just give up already, their people deserve better. I do see them trying to missile a different country in the area if we missile them though, and if we send ground troops a lot of civilians will probably be killed in the fighting.

[silverjm]

I'm torn too. I think there needs to be a response, and I would like it to be a joint response with our allies, to say that this kind of behavior won't be tolerated. On the other hand I don't want us to get into an extended conflict, and certainly don't want to open the can of worms that is Iran.

[eav2c]

Aug 27, 2013 18:55:03 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

Oy, who knows. I am legitimately scared about Russia. China, not so much, but Putin is unstable and a crazy ass. I think Obama will hit some military target but doubt he will do more. Putting boots on the ground, in a situation like this, could end terrible. Last thing we need is Iran getting in to the mix.

Yes. I was watching a video on CNN that showed a row of dead children and people who died while trying to get air lying half way out their windows. I feel like we need to do something but the repercussions scare me. I honestly don't know what to do and feel torn. I will trust our commander in chief to make the right decision. My heart breaks over the stories coming out of Syria.

[imimahoney]

Aug 27, 2013 19:02:33 GMT -5 silverjm said:

I'm torn too. I think there needs to be a response, and I would like it to be a joint response with our allies, to say that this kind of behavior won't be tolerated. On the other hand I don't want us to get into an extended conflict, and certainly don't want to open the can of worms that is Iran.

The UN seems like such a joke nowadays, especially with who sits on the security counsel. I can see the UK, France and Germany assisting the US but we will probably have a majority of the share of soldiers out there. I wish we could just go in, blow Assad's ass up, and then move on. 

[showdogz]

So I was with 3 other girlfriends for breakfast on Sunday and one girl brings up that her SO isn't even sure he wants to bring another kid into this world with how f'd up it is (they have a 3 mo old). I was like, "What? We're all doing fine. I don't really get that point of view." And another girl chimes in that there will definitely be a WWIII probably sometime in our own kid's lifetime and she can see that. I, on the otherhand, am blissfully unaware of outside going ons, kwim? I don't watch the news and if it something upsetting that I cannot change myself, I tend to avoid it. There are no elections anytime soon, so I guess I don't want to know. It just makes me really sad and so I've always avoided the news. Reading this, I am sure Syria is what got this conversation started.

Do you guys think about your kid's future in that sort of sense? I just thought it was a bit overboard. I mean, we are not in a 3rd world country. I don't know. The conversation kind of shook me for some reason. Am I being to ignorant of what's going on elsewhere?

[rjamz]

Aug 27, 2013 19:19:52 GMT -5 @pcloadletter said:

Aug 27, 2013 19:14:59 GMT -5 showdogz said:

So I was with 3 other girlfriends for breakfast on Sunday and one girl brings up that her SO isn't even sure he wants to bring another kid into this world with how f'd up it is (they have a 3 mo old). I was like, "What? We're all doing fine. I don't really get that point of view." And another girl chimes  that there will definitely be a WWIII probably sometime in our own kid's lifetime and she can see that. I, on the otherhand, am blissfully unaware of outside going ons, kwim? I don't watch the news and if it something upsetting that I cannot change myself, I tend to avoid it. There are no elections anytime soon, so I guess I don't want to know. It just makes me really sad and so I've always avoided the news. Reading this, I am sure Syria is what got this conversation started.

Do you guys think about your kid's future in that sort of sense? I just thought it was a bit overboard. I mean, we are not in a 3rd world country. I don't know. The conversation kind of shook me for some reason. Am I being to ignorant of what's going on elsewhere?

We can't just bury our heads in the sand because the world is sad and scary. There is a huge issue with ignorance of the world here in America and that is why we are such a joke to so many people. Our citizens just do not take time to care. There will probably be a WWIII sooner rather than later because of all the fucked up psychos who run countries. I do not think about my children's futures that way though. I know they will face hardships and scary things, but I try more to think of their happiness. 

This. The world is a scary scary place, but I try to focus on the good things in the world bc I really do think they outweigh the bad.

[monkeybabe]

Another person that's torn here. I don't think we should be the world police, but what's going on over there is just awful. I also feel like U.S involvement in the past has created some of the Middle East problems we're seeing today.

[showdogz]

I do think the good outweighs the bad, but that conversation had me feeling like maybe I am being naive. If I do start thinking about things like that I can get myself into a full out panic, so I don't. When I was young, I would get myself worked up about death and what happens when we die. I would get really scared of the idea of living forever. Anyways, getting off topic. Just trying to explain that I am not trying to be all I don't care what happens to other countries, I just honestly don't think I can handle it.

[lolaburns]

So weird you brought this up rjamz . I was actually watching the news today and wondering what you thought.

The core of my political beliefs are Libertarian. However, I think some Libertarian foreign policy can be very naive and isolationist. So I get really conflicted.

I hate seeing innocent people murdered. But when do we say enough is enough? Syria, Eqypt, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq. It's just so much. I hate saying this but how many more American lives do we devote to all of this? At the same time, what if we never went to war against Hitler? That was the right thing to do... I just don't know. I don't know what the answer is but I'm not sure our country can handle yet another war.

It seems this man has committed war crimes. Maybe they can take out air bases and planes with missiles. China, Russia and Iran will be livid but oh we'll they can't stand us anyway. If we arm the opposition I'm just afraid we don't know entirely who we are arming. I have been rolling my eyes at McCain and him constantly on a soap box.

[rjamz]

I'm flattered you thought of me and my opinion!

I'm also very against arming the rebels. Some of the groups have been taken over by Al Qaeda, from what I understand. It's not all 1 cohesive unit with a centralized leader.

I'm also against being the world police, but when things like this happen...I can't stand sitting idly by.

[katfco]

While I don't want to see any soldiers killed by being sent there, it's time to shut this guy down. I say this as primarily a pacifist, but the horrors this man has brought on his own people will not stay in the boundaries of his country.

However, I don't think America should be the one to lead the way again. There needs to be a solid commitment from other countries so we don't shoulder the bulk of the burden.

[Deleted]

I think that unless the UN is willing to step up and make real statements and actions there is nothing America can do to mitigate this situation. I would go so far as to say that our participation in any way could push Syrian violence to spread further through the Middle East than it already has.

I think it is time for a serious conversation about what is more important to us: western-style democracy or regional stability.

[rjamz]

The UN isn't going to do anything. Screw them (and I say that as someone who used to work there)

I do think it can't just be us and it can't be like Libya where we ended up shouldering most of the burden. We need the UK, France, Germany, Canada, etc to stand with us. Make it an official NATO thing (but again, not like Libya)

[helicase]

I've written about 4 different responses, but each time I read it back before posting and think that it's not right. So, in short, I'm torn, too. Is it our responsibility as a world leader with the largest military to protect the innocents all over the globe OR should we only get involved in conflicts that directly involve us? It's a hard decision and I'm glad I'm not the one to make it.

[fryjack2]

-The UN is a joke.

-To ask for countries to fight wars with a moral compass and not use chemical warfare is laughable.

-I lived in Jordan during the Gulf War. I'm afraid of what's going to happen to Jordan and Israel if this blows up more than it has.

-When a leader is killing innocent people just to show he can, or starving them, or is cruel, I think the world needs to step in.

-I really wish this topic is what I heard people talking about today instead of Miley fucking Cyrus every time I turned around. Not that the VMAs shouldnt be talked about, but its like no one really knows what goes on outside of the US unless it has to do with a celebrity.

[rjamz]

I'm also really worried about Israel and Jordan. I think that he's going to retaliate against them, both good countries (which, yes, have their own issues and I don't always agree with) surrounded by less stable and moderate regimes in the region.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards

[Deleted]

I wish the UN wasn't such a joke, but they pretty much are. This internal war is on what, year 2? I'm actually surprised we haven't done anything yet, I'm pretty sure with a different President, even maybe a different Democrat, we would have already done something to remove the Syria government.

[creamsiclechica]

This is an incredibly difficult call for me to make. On several levels. It is atrocious for us to allow these unspeakable acts against innocents to continue, but it is so difficult to draw a line on whether or not it's appropriate (and feasible) for us to get involved. Obviously, I'm not an advocate for troops on the ground, but missile strikes and the like are not an expendable resource for the US military right now either. The military as a force has taken a huge financial hit, especially in light of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Also, budget cuts are making things incredibly difficult for the military to have the leeway to effectively engage another country in ANY conflict. Those types of strikes have to be authorized by Congress (by and large, there are some loopholes), and I'd be disappointed if they voted to launch an attack while things in the military, including force size, benefits, equipment, and facilities are being cut across the board for us here.

Also, as a pacifist (I know, I know, pacifist married to a soldier makes no sense), I feel torn between the loss of American innocents/use of deadly force versus removing a tyrannical murder who's slaughtering thousands of innocents from power. How do we decide which lives are more "valuable?" I hate that it's a choice.

But, like rjamz said, simply arming the rebels is not an answer either. Many of them are al Qaeda connected, and because of that, it'd be unwise and immoral to fund them in any way.

There's no easy answer, and I'm still trying to come to grips with it.

But I can tell you the answer is NOT ignoring it and saying "oh these types of things make me uncomfortable, so I'd rather just not watch the news." That infuriates me. Education and staying informed could prevent so many things in this country, and blissful ignorance is the path most chosen by our generation. This is why things permeate. This is why there's little "change," no matter who's in control, Republican or Democrat.

[lolaburns]

It's all a mess. I feel like in the next few days we should expect some sort of military attack. I don't expect Congressional approval before it happens. Obama stated using chemical weapons was a red line that could not be crossed. If he sits back now... He looks weak to these crazy leaders.

[fryjack2]

I will also never understand all the ins and outs of politics. As humans, we want to do X, but a a country, if we do X, then Belize will hate us and Bora Bora will love us. But Canada hates Bora Bora so we will piss off Canada. If we piss of Canada, then there will be no more amazing maple syrup or hockey. What to do, what to do?

[creamsiclechica]

Aug 27, 2013 21:03:59 GMT -5 lolaburns said:

It's all a mess. I feel like in the next few days we should expect some sort of military attack. I don't expect Congressional approval before it happens. Obama stated using chemical weapons was a red line that could not be crossed. If he sits back now... He looks weak to these crazy leaders.

I think you're right.  I do pray however he doesn't do this on his own.  I think that's foolish, not only because he can't authorize enough to be as effective as it needs to be, but because of how much deeper the divide between this administration and the legislature will become if he does.  It'll only doom getting things down the line for the rest of his presidency, and it's ridiculous.

[lolaburns]

I just assume that because he seems to like to go around Congress to get things done. You're right though, it will make the divide even worse... At a time really need to be cohesive with each other.

However it is done, I hope we have a very vocal backing from the Arab League. They don't have the military might to deal with something like this but they do have the ability to be loud in their support. I know their support would only come from saving their own skin... But it is necessary. It's wishful thinking, but I really hope the Arab League can step up to the plate here.

[claralou]

I tend to agree with creamsiclechica on most issues like this, and this one's no exception. I'm extremely sensitive to any decisions involving troops on the ground now, but this situation is particularly conflicting. Sadly, I can't help but think that Syria is going to be Obama's Rwanda*, regardless of his decisions going forward at this point, and that is so, so depressing to me.

(*Clinton's only publicly stated regret of his presidency, and rightly so. He/congress acted with too little too late, and we essentially allowed a mass genocide to happen there. With the benefit of hindsight, most historians agree that the US was the only country at the time in any position to stop it, and we didn't.)

[DesertMoon]

It all just makes me very sad. Syria, Iraq, Egypt...all of it.

[devotchka]

Aug 27, 2013 22:24:38 GMT -5 DesertMoon said:

It all just makes me very sad. Syria, Iraq, Egypt...all of it.

I didn't even know how to respond to this post because I am so emotional about the middle east and I feel like I have nothing helpful to say. It also makes me very sad and I do worry about the potential fallout if we do something - or if we don't :/

Russia is a ticking timebomb, the UN is useless... good times.