Questions about pace runs

[Susie]

I'm doing Hal Higdon's Novice 2 half plan, with pace runs every other week.  I'm not kidding anybody about my ability to stick to a specific pace (plus I do my pace runs in a not-perfectly-flat neighborhood), so this morning I figured I'd aim for a range:  9:00-9:09 m/m.  Strictly speaking, 9:09 is my goal pace.

1.  If I am able to go faster than that, should I?  Today was the 3 mile pace run, and I did 8:41, 9:08, 8:54.  (The middle mile has a small hill.)  The average was around 8:54.  Should I slow it down, to practice going my actual goal half pace, or go with it if faster is comfortable?

2.  What kind of variation should I be working to contain it to?  Like if I'm shooting for 9:00 m/m, is 8:55-9:05 a reasonable range, and more or less good enough as far as hitting that pace, as long as the average is about right?  I'm thinking 8:41-9:08 is probably too big of a range, hill or no hill.

[gumi]

the range you are talking about is SO minimal (8:54 vs 9)... the Garmin itself is not reliable in such small range.

I dont think anyone sticks a specific pace. Even if you were in a flat neighborhood, you have headwinds and tailwinds and different terrains.

TBH, I would not focus on pace during a pace run but instead I would focus on effort. Maybe look at your pace every 10 minute increment or something? It's good practice to know the feeling between 5K effort, half marathon effort, etc. And, as you practice that effort, your pace will naturally increase. In other words, let your body decide your pace. Not your brain. Dont overthink.

[pamela]

I thought the goal of the pace run was to teach your body what that pace feels like. Kind of like muscle memory. Personally, I feel like +/- 5 seconds is a super small window and might even be outside the range of your GPS to accurately calculate.

[Susie]

Sept 4, 2013 9:23:59 GMT -5 @vtcupcake said:

ps- I'd kill to have a 3mi pace run again right now. I did 7 this morning at GMP and my fingernails are sore from hanging onto it for dear life.

Dude if you need to AW your run go right ahead, I will be in line to give you a (star) :Y: for a hard effort.  But that reads like "I'd kill to have a dinky little run like yours on my calendar."  Thanks for that? 

People jumped all over somebody the other week for saying something about training for a half marathon being lame, but comments like this are why people might feel that way.

[Susie]

Sept 4, 2013 9:32:20 GMT -5 pamela said:

I thought the goal of the pace run was to teach your body what that pace feels like. Kind of like muscle memory.

That's what I thought too, but it's entirely possible I'm just running-dumb.

I was thinking of it more as like 15 seconds under, since my goal pace is 9:09, but shrug.  Maybe it doesn't matter at all.

[ebeth]

Sept 4, 2013 9:45:41 GMT -5 Susie said:

Sept 4, 2013 9:32:20 GMT -5 pamela said:

I thought the goal of the pace run was to teach your body what that pace feels like. Kind of like muscle memory.

That's what I thought too, but it's entirely possible I'm just running-dumb.

I was thinking of it more as like 15 seconds under, since my goal pace is 9:09, but shrug.  Maybe it doesn't matter at all.

it's partially muscle memory and partially just practicing being uncomfortable.

also, figuring out when you're about to blow up.  that's a tricky skill to master.

you're trying to break 2 hours yes?  I'd make your goal pace 9:00 flat in that case.  9:09 will not get you there because you are going to run more than 13.1 miles. 

so I don't think this was a failed run or anything.  those splits look like you are doing just fine.  went out a bit fast, reeled it in a bit too much, last mile was perfect.  it's your first one. this looks like solid work IMO.  you have like 11 weeks to get it right so cut yourself some slack. 

[Susie]

Sept 4, 2013 10:21:35 GMT -5 @vtcupcake said:

Sept 4, 2013 9:41:19 GMT -5 Susie said:

Dude if you need to AW your run go right ahead, I will be in line to give you a (star) for a hard effort.  But that reads like "I'd kill to have a dinky little run like yours on my calendar."  Thanks for that? 

People jumped all over somebody the other week for saying something about training for a half marathon being lame, but comments like this are why people might feel that way.

I was kind of just reminiscing about how awesome and fun it is to start a new training plan, especially for a half, since I miss that immensely right now since I am slow and sore and tired. But if you think I'm all uppity for that, get down with your bad self.

oh goodness.

If you had said "I'd kill to be starting a new training plan/cycle..." that would have come off WAY different than "I'd kill to have a 3 mi run again, I DID 7...."  One sounds like reminiscing.  The other - yeah, sounded uppity.  If it came from a place of suffering through later weeks of a training cycle, I guess I get it?  Maybe?  But it still came off really condescending.  I just don't expect that from H&F.

[katinthehat]

If your pace is your pace, aim for that as close to accurate as possible, but don't sweat a few seconds. (which is contradictory advice, but basically, try to aim for 9:00 but if it's anywhere from 8:55-9:05, meh.)

And do what the training plan says. You'll have plenty of time to push it later on, enjoy the (slightly) easier effort now at the beginning of the plan.

[clseale]

I agree that I'd stick to a range of the training plan pace. I wouldn't drop the pace right now. You SHOULD be able to run faster than race pace for a few miles, but that doesn't mean you should for a race pace run. Ex: My MP runs for my last race probably ranged in miles from 8:25-just below an 8:40. I ran an 8:36 pace for the race. I could run middle miles in those runs at 8:05-8:15, but that was my tempo pace, and a different kind of run.

[Wines Not Whines]

I agree with everyone else that being a few seconds off of your goal pace is fine. You're probably not going to run every single mile at exactly the same pace.

I'd try to stick to around 9 minute miles for now, because it's going to get a lot harder to maintain that pace when your pace runs get longer. If you're up to running 8-mile pace runs and you can bang them all out at an 8:45 pace, so you want to reassess your race goal and make 8:45 your new goal pace, then go for it.

[gt7301b]

Well if you decide to run faster I know someone who is aiming for a 1:55 at Philly

I've recently become a big fan of the heart rate monitor for pace/tempo runs etc. I can look back at my heart rate and see if I was getting close to bonking or if it really was an easier day. Sometimes when the temperatures change I start pushing the pace, but when I look at the heart rate data the run wasn't really as easy as I thought it was

When I reference my boyfriend, McMillian, he has the following info on his site about training paces:

"Training Paces are presented as ranges to allow for day-to-day variation in how you feel as well as for starting slowly and gradually building toward your average training pace for a particular type of run."

[patches31709]

Sept 4, 2013 10:31:43 GMT -5 Susie said:

Sept 4, 2013 10:21:35 GMT -5 @vtcupcake said:

I was kind of just reminiscing about how awesome and fun it is to start a new training plan, especially for a half, since I miss that immensely right now since I am slow and sore and tired. But if you think I'm all uppity for that, get down with your bad self.

oh goodness.

If you had said "I'd kill to be starting a new training plan/cycle..." that would have come off WAY different than "I'd kill to have a 3 mi run again, I DID 7...."  One sounds like reminiscing.  The other - yeah, sounded uppity.  If it came from a place of suffering through later weeks of a training cycle, I guess I get it?  Maybe?  But it still came off really condescending.  I just don't expect that from H&F.

I get where you're coming from, but I also got condescending vibes from the lame half marathon post last week so what do I know.


That said, I always understood the goal of pace runs to be teaching your body to run consistently at that speed. I think averaging around 9 is a good goal to aim for for you since it'll give you a little room to play with at the end, and I really hope you break 2 hours! 

[katinthehat]

Sept 4, 2013 13:24:21 GMT -5 gt7301b said:

When I reference my boyfriend, McMillian,

Best H&F quote ever

[breezy8407]

I am in the same place right now...I did a 3 mile pace run last night and always struggle with what I should be doing. I can do 3 miles at less than my goal HM pace. I try to use those pace runs as practice for the effort and getting out of the comfort "zone out" pace I do my other easy runs at.

[taratru]

I struggle with pace runs because I want to go faster. So when I feel good, I go faster. I really feel like that's why I made such huge gains in my racing last winter/spring. I was able to push the envelope of "fast for me" a little further, if that makes sense. I think I had some pace runs that were turning into tempo runs, but I also think that kind of training works for me.