I don't even know where to start...I've lurked since before the exodus. Haven't really posted because work and school take most of my time/energy. I've read a lot of helpful advice both here and on ML, and advice is what I'm needing right now so I'm jumping in.
TL/DR version: DH and I have one thing we fight about: my family. I'm trying to handle their bullshit better, but I'm not doing it well enough to make him happy. I'm tired of trying to change. I think I want to separate, I know I want couples counseling, but I'm such a pussy when it comes to confrontation I don't know how to talk to him about it. I need some help figuring out what to say.
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My H and I have been married for about 4.5 years, together for almost 7. In that time I have learned a lot about myself. I don't handle conflict/confrontation well. I'm an extremely poor communicator. And I am easily manipulated. I have a large family full of assholes, jerks, and passive aggressive drama queens. Every time DH and I visit, someone has something bitchy/snarky/disrespectful to say/imply. Now, I grew up with all of that, so it's hard for me to recognize and react to it. But my husband is quite sensitive to it. He has become more and more angry with me over the years we've been together because he wants me to stand up to my family, set/hold boundaries, and stop letting them get away with the way they treat him/us. All of this is reasonable, and I have been trying very hard to do it.
We're at the point where we hardly see my family. We visit for holidays, but we don't stay long. I can't even think about talking/visiting my family without becoming extremely anxious. DH obsesses about it...he's pressuring me right now to get in touch with my parents about the holidays. He feels like my parents are blaming him for a lot of the chaos that's going on in my family right now as well as for them not having a relationship with me. So he wants me to change their perception. I don't want to have anything but an extremely superficial relationship with them at this point, so I don't want to get in touch with them at all about anything.
The thing is, I feel like I've been pretty blunt with my parents about not being happy with their behavior. I use 'I' statements when I talk to them. I've been clear with them that my poor relationship with them is not his fault. My parents and I aren't even speaking to each other right now because their butthurt I called them on their bullshit. Unfortunately, because their behavior hasn't changed, DH doesn't believe me.
He and I have trust issues now that stem from my inability to handle my family. We've had so many conversations (arguments when I'm being defensive) about what behavior to expect from people and how I need to react and things I should/shouldn't say. So when I fail to perform (my words, not his) he thinks I'm not listening or just don't want to do it. I try to explain why I'm struggling, and he thinks I'm just giving excuses. We had another argument about it this morning (it's become our usual start to the day, which is making us both miserable). He went for a run, and I left the house. Here's an example of how poor my communication skills are: I was upset when I left the house...it didn't occur to me to send him a text letting him know where I was going and when I would be back. (I work from home, so it's pretty unusual for me to not be there.) I just got a sarcastic text from him about it...so he's upset with me about that now too. I sent a text back apologizing, but at this point I doubt he even wants to hear yet another apology from me.
I'm at the library trying to catch up on work, but I just feel sick right now. I love and respect him too much to keep making him miserable. I feel like maybe I've been in denial for years. I really am trying to change...But at this point it just feels like to little to late. I don't want to go home tonight because I don't know what to say to him. I feel beaten down and torn up, and I have no one to turn to.
This is probably longer than it needs to be, but there's so much history involved I wanted to try to give a clearer picture of the mess I'm in...any advice? Maybe a kick in the ass? I'll answer any questions anyone has as quickly as I can.
Post by bullygirl979 on Sept 17, 2013 13:01:17 GMT -5
Given he sent you a "sarcastic text" I'd say his communication skills aren't that stellar either. Have you two been to counseling together? If not, I recommend some.
Post by captainmel on Sept 17, 2013 13:02:21 GMT -5
I think individual counseling for you and couples counseling too.
It seems like a lot of his frustration is coming from a place where he doesn't want to see you be manipulated and hurt by your family. You need to figure out why you let them treat you so poorly all the time. Once you figure that out you can work on your communication with your H and decide if that is fixable or not.
Post by partiallysunny on Sept 17, 2013 13:08:40 GMT -5
First, ::hugs::
I have a difficult family as well. A family that also blames most of our distance on my H (and to an extent, my ILs) even though I've never once brought up my H or his family when I've talked to them about issues.
That being said, my H has NEVER EVER forced me to confront them or "clear his name". My H know my family is who they are and it's up to me to deal with them how I see fit. The only time my husband gives advice is when I ask for it or I'm worrying myself sick over it.
You admit you can easily be manipulated... I'm concerned your H is taking advantage of that fact.
And his sarcasm to your disappearance shows a lack of maturity.
I think you need to take apart your relationship. Pull out your family life and look at the relationship as a whole. once you step back, you'll be able to see if therapy would be good for the two of you or a separation. If your family wasn't involved, would you really have a good relationship? Or is that just an excuse?
And I do suggest therapy for you. Family issues are difficult. Therapy will help you gain boundaries and give you perspective and tools you didn't have before.
Thank you for the replies...I definitely agree that I need therapy. Actually, that's another reason why I really don't want to talk to my family right now. I don't think I have the tools I need to be effective with them. I don't even have the tools to be effective with DH... I've told him this (and I calling to schedule an appointment with a counselor now), but he wants immediate action. It's the delay that's eating at him. He sees this mess stretching out for years when he thinks it should be as simple as picking up the phone and having a conversation. I don't know why it's not that simple for me.
I'm not thrilled with his communication style. He uses a lot of "you need to" and "you should/should not have" statements. It leaves me feeling defensive and makes it even more difficult for me to talk to him.
I've been in therapy before for depression/anxiety, so I know I'll get something out of it. I just wish he could be more patient with me.
I am sorry to say this but I think your husband is bullying you as much as your family is, they do not sound much different to me, maybe different ways but the same outcome. You are being by all parties involved.
I am sorry to say this but I think your husband is bullying you as much as your family is, they do not sound much different to me, maybe different ways but the same outcome. You are being by all parties involved.
I actually said this during our argument this morning...that I feel bullied by everyone, including him. His response was that I'm pointing fingers and getting angry/irritated with him when I should really be angry with my family.
I am sorry to say this but I think your husband is bullying you as much as your family is, they do not sound much different to me, maybe different ways but the same outcome. You are being by all parties involved.
I actually said this during our argument this morning...that I feel bullied by everyone, including him. His response was that I'm pointing fingers and getting angry/irritated with him when I should really be angry with my family.
no. Just no.
What is he even angry with you about? What does he want you to do?
Has your H ever gone to individual counseling? It seems like it could help him to understand his frustrations too.
He has been to individual counseling, but it was years before we met. He doesn't seem thrilled about the idea of me going...I've talked about it several times and he keeps reminding me that I need to be aware of how much it's going to cost. I don't think he thinks he needs to see a counselor...I'm not sure what he thinks about going as a couple. He has also been clear that he thinks any therapist I see will agree with him. I don't care about being right or wrong! I just want to learn how to talk to my husband!
ETA: I just realized by wording that the way I did, I did to you what they do. If you would like to visit New Jersey, I could help you be more assertive and mabout what you want and what is good for YOU. I think you should find your courage and stand your ground.
I actually said this during our argument this morning...that I feel bullied by everyone, including him. His response was that I'm pointing fingers and getting angry/irritated with him when I should really be angry with my family.
no. Just no.
What is he even angry with you about? What does he want you to do?
Honestly? Right now I feel like he wants me to force my family to be the perfect in-laws, take accountability for everything they've said/done, and apologize. I think he had expectations for our marriage that were never met. He's says he knew before he ever asked me to marry him that we would have issues with my family, but I think he expected me to just suddenly be better at boundaries/communication after we got married. It's taken me years just to be able to recognize how poorly my family was behaving.
How is your relationship otherwise? If you take the family issues out of the equation, are you happy and do you want to be with him?
Without my family in the equation, I think our relationship is actually really good. ... I'm not sure he feels that way, though. Maybe I'll ask him that when I get home tonight.
I think you should find your courage and stand your ground. Come to Jersey for a few weeks girl and I will get you straight and NO ONE will walk all over you again. You don't deserve it. No one deserves to be treated that way.
Thanks, this made me smile I think that's part of why I've spilled my guts here today. I'm looking for ground I can stand on. Problem is, I'm so torn up right now I need validation that it's ok for me to stand on this particular piece of ground...my family beat me down pretty good growing up. It's taken me a long time to see it. It's going to take a little bit longer for me to figure out how to change it.
Post by captainmel on Sept 17, 2013 14:13:16 GMT -5
You can't make your family be the perfect in laws. That is impossible. The best you will ever be able to do is control your reaction to their behavior which is why we all are suggesting therapy.
In regards to the cost, therapy can be expensive but it is almost always worth it. Call around and see if you can find a therapist with a sliding cost scale. Your mental health is always important.
Post by margarita on Sept 17, 2013 14:16:38 GMT -5
Okay. That's good! You mentioned a possible separation in your OP, so I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't more going on.
I think that joint and individual counseling would help. Working on boundaries with a difficult family isn't easy and is not something you learn overnight. It's a process. It also sounds like he has a lack of trust and a lot of insecurity about the way you have dealt with your family in the past. But I am also getting a bit of a controlling vibe, so I'm actually wondering how similar he is to your family. Have you ever given him a reason not to trust you? It just seems odd that he's doubting the fact that you talked to your parents about things.
ETA: I just realized by wording that the way I did, I did to you what they do. If you would like to visit New Jersey, I could help you be more assertive and mabout what you want and what is good for YOU. I think you should find your courage and stand your ground.
I don't think I would have even noticed if you hadn't pointed it out... It's so ingrained in my personality/nature that I really have to work hard to catch it and stand up for myself. Thanks
Has your H ever gone to individual counseling? It seems like it could help him to understand his frustrations too.
He has been to individual counseling, but it was years before we met. He doesn't seem thrilled about the idea of me going...I've talked about it several times and he keeps reminding me that I need to be aware of how much it's going to cost. I don't think he thinks he needs to see a counselor...I'm not sure what he thinks about going as a couple. He has also been clear that he thinks any therapist I see will agree with him. I don't care about being right or wrong! I just want to learn how to talk to my husband!
FFS, he is acting just like your family.
I would HIGHLY recommend couples counseling and individual counseling. There are a lot of therapist who will operate on a sliding scale depending on your income.
His expectations are unreasonable. YOU can't make your family do anything, YOU can't make your family apologize. Yes, you can set boundaries with your family, but you cannot control their behavior. And he needs to realize that.
I agree with everyone who pointed out that your husband is also bullying/manipulating you. Individual counseling should help you stand up for yourself, and I'd also strongly encourage couple's counseling since you two are both struggling with communication.
P.S. If your husband trots out the "any therapist will agree with ME" line, tell him that you don't care about being right or wrong, and that you just want to learn how both of you can communicate better. That's a great answer!
Well, I think your husband sounds like a douchebag. He probably hates your family so much because they are a lot like him. He sounds manipulative and immature.
I say tell him to go fuck himself and kick his ass out,
Okay. That's good! You mentioned a possible separation in your OP, so I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't more going on.
I think that joint and individual counseling would help. Working on boundaries with a difficult family isn't easy and is not something you learn overnight. It's a process. It also sounds like he has a lack of trust and a lot of insecurity about the way you have dealt with your family in the past. But I am also getting a bit of a controlling vibe, so I'm actually wondering how similar he is to your family. Have you ever given him a reason not to trust you? It just seems odd that he's doubting the fact that you talked to your parents about things.
I'm thinking about separation right now because we're both miserable. Both of us have admitted that, at this point, we'd rather be alone.
He has been very clear that he does not trust me in regards to my family. Over the years we've been married we've had hundreds of in-depth conversations about my family, what I can do/say to stand up to them and set boundaries, and what I should not do/say. I've missed opportunities to call my parents out on poor behavior (and there have been a lot of opportunities), and I think he takes that as me not wanting to stand up for him/us.
Best example I can think of: My jerk older brother got married. The wedding was at my parents house. After much deliberation (and great hesitation on my part, because this older brother is a real jerk), we decide to go. DH warns me that my family will try to separate us to try to make a point. So I'm on guard and nervous, trying to stay aware of everything that's going on. I manage to decline demands to take pictures when DH stepped out to find a lighter for the candle lighting ceremony they had planned. But during the ceremony itself, the chairs had been arranged in a way that put DH and I in a corner where we could not possibly see anything. There was no room to move both of our chairs forward, but there was an extra space for just one chair. Both my grandmother and my mom are glaring at us from across the room, so DH lets me know that my chair had been in that spot. I shrugged it off the first time he told me, but when he kept telling me (the ceremony is going on at this point), I thought he was suggesting I move my chair forward. So I did. He has told me many times now that it was a dagger through his heart. I feel awful about it because I understand from his perspective it looked like I was choosing my family over him.
There are other examples, but I think this reply is long enough now.
God...I feel so awful thinking about it. I hate that I can't stand up to pressure. I hate that I'm so poor at reading/deciphering social situations. I hate that I've brought so much pain to my husband's life. This isn't what I wanted our life to be.
Oy. What really bothers me is that clearly there are deep issues here and you are trying to work on them, to the point that YOU want to go to counseling. And your DH actually doesn't support that. He throws "cost" at you. Really? I can't get past that. I'd expect him to be THRILLED that you're looking for help.
Which makes me think he wants to be your "one and only", your "fixer", so to speak. HE wants to be the one that guided you to fix things w/ your family. He doesn't want anyone else helping you with this.
This isn't healthy.
And the bit about the wedding? WTF? Did you tell him "I thought you told me to move my chair so that I could see my brother get married?"? And regardless - he's told you numerous times that this was like putting a dagger through his heart? Melodramatic much?
Hell. Maybe a separation is a good thing. Clear your head, go to counseling, and figure out what YOU need and what YOU want.
Hmmmmm. Yeah, the more you say, the more it sounds like he's not that different from your family. I'm really sorry.
And honestly, that's not really all that surprising. If your family is "all you know" in regards to how relationships work, it's not shocking that you'd pick a partner w/ the same characteristics.
I too am really sorry that you're dealing with this.
The more examples you give, the worse your husband looks. He wanted to make sure that you didn't take photos with your family if he was out of the room? He repeatedly chastises you for a misunderstanding? And gets all freaked out if you "choose" your family over him?
He sounds incredibly manipulative. Unless there's some missing back-story about your family, I'm not so sure that they're the problem.
Thanks everyone...I really appreciate your thoughts on all this. I think you all said things I really needed to hear. My head is a little bit clearer now, and I feel like I can stand my ground when I get home tonight. There's definitely more back story about my family, but it will have to wait because the library is about to close. I'll try to get on later tonight to write more.
I did try to explain to him why I did what I did at the wedding, but he thinks it's ridiculous that I thought that. To him, my explanations are excuses...so I struggle to find something to say beyond "I'm sorry."
I managed to get an appointment with a therapist for Thursday evening. Her info says she does couples counseling too, so I'm hoping we make a good connection.
I'm glad you were able to get an appointment so quickly!
And in the case of the wedding chair fiasco, you really shouldn't HAVE to say anything beyond "I'm sorry." It's ridiculous that he is under the delusion that he is the sole arbiter of reasonableness during misunderstandings.