I'm trying to look at DH's and my relationship objectively...and with open eyes. I said yesterday that I thought our relationship was pretty good if my family was not factored in... I'm starting to think I'm being willfully blind about it. I'm starting to feel like I'm trying desperately to hold onto something that isn't real. Last night was awful...today has been awful. He is angry with me but isn't talking with me. He's just lashing out. And he hates himself...he's been quite the dramatic today. So here's some back story and extra details...I'll try to answer questions. I'm at home, though, and I don't want him to know I'm posting all this.
TL/DR version: I do think DH is justified in being frustrated/angry/irritated with my family and with the clumsy, slow way I've tried to resolve all the issues. HOWEVER -- he is not justified in berating me repeatedly for past missteps...or for completely discounting and invalidating my perspective and opinion. We're at the point where everything I say is "starting a fight" or "pushing his buttons" or "doesn't make sense". I feel like there is nothing I can say...nothing I can do that will help us. I'm so glad I have an appointment with a therapist!
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Background: I do think he's right in his anger/frustration with regards to my family. I was blind to it for a long time (and it's still hard to hear it and accept that they have been/can be so awful), but I am starting to see it for what it is. I come from a family of 13. For almost all of my childhood years (I would say 8-18), we were fundamentalist, Independent Baptist. (Not as bad as the Duggars but damn near close.) I was homeschooled from kindergarten through high school, got into college at 17 (my parents' views were starting to shift by that time), and started waking up to the world. I will completely own my lack of social skills. I will readily admit that my communication skills are extremely poor...I really do understand why he's upset and why he wants me to stick up to my family. And I have no fucking clue how I seem to be the only person in my family who is disrespected and poorly used.
An interesting highlight: My mom turned her back on me at my wedding. During the reception, she had pointedly turned her back on my MIL when MIL tried to chat with her. DH told me about it (mom and I had fought about almost everything in regards to wedding planning...I knew things were tense). So I walked over to talk to her and ask what was wrong. She turned away from me and walked straight over to my older brother to talk to him.
Here's why it stung: A few weeks before, mom had gossiped to my older brother about my then-FI (political gossip...she spread it through the family that DH was a liberal. He's more moderate...and actually a bit more conservative than I personally agree with). It wouldn't have taken much for her to convince my douche of an older brother that I needed a "talking to." Growing up, he looked for every opportunity to throw mud at me and exert his dominance. He didn't have the balls to actually talk to me, though. He sent me texts. Texts that made me so angry I nearly got fired because I snapped at my boss as I stepped outside to cool off. And then when I tried to call him (he lived two hours away), he refused to answer his phone...because he was at work and that would get him in trouble. So I ended up leaving my brother a very angry voice mail (I tried calling for a week and the fucking jerk never picked up). He still didn't call. He sent me an email and it was so bad, I considered the bridge burned then and there. I told my parents if he was not happy for me and supportive of my decision, I did not want him at the wedding. My dad said he would talk to him...my mom said nothing... I don't think dad ever talked to him. And mom showed me how she felt about it by what she did at the reception.
I have talked to her multiple times about her turning her back on me (and other things she did...she made it very clear, in her wonderfully passive aggressive way, that she was not happy). She denied all of it at first and turned it back around on me, but I kept bringing it up until she finally apologized...years after the wedding. She still has not apologized to my MIL. (I don't ever expect her to.)
Here's the thing, though. I've tried explaining how all of this history has affected my personality and my ability to function in the "normal" world to DH. It's like I just can't find the right words...he doesn't get it. Communicating is a simple thing for him. He says "I knew it" all too often. "I knew we would have trouble with this. I knew and I told you. This is not worth it." ... The first year we were married (I was still in denial about my family, and the fights were bad) I asked him why he married me. If he was so certain it would turn into hell, why? Because I didn't know or understand what he was so certain he knew. When we were dating/engaged, my head was in the clouds (and up my ass), and I didn't handle all the interpersonal chaos well at all.
OMG there's so much more! There's so much more history and drama! I could write for days and not scratch the surface, but I'm losing myself in emotion and getting rambly, so I've got to stop for now.
He will not forgive me. Honestly, I don't blame him. He says I'm selfish and prideful. I feel like I've torn myself apart trying to resolve all of this and improve our relationship.
Ultimately, he's not meeting my needs (which I can't even quantify or define), and I know I'm not meeting his. He keeps bringing up separation...I'm the one that will have to move out...Fall quarter starts next Monday...the end of the fiscal quarter crunch at work is always hectic...fuck...I feel so lost right now.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
Post by margarita on Sept 18, 2013 17:29:26 GMT -5
It does sound like you moved from one controlling environment to another, which isn't at all surprising or uncommon.
I'm not saying that your H's hurt and frustration is unfounded. It does sound like your family has been pretty cruel and unfair to the both of you. But I think his way of handling it has been pretty divisive and unreasonable.
Why is he so angry with you today? Is it about the appointment with a therapist?
I think that's part of it. Someone said yesterday that he wants to be the "fixer" and I think that's right too. He doesn't understand why I can't just do what he wants me to. Everything would be fine if I wasn't unwilling to just do and say everything he wants me to do and say. I tried telling him last night that I'm going to therapy to work on myself and improve my communication with him and ultimately improve our relationship. He told me he thinks I'm looking for a magic fix.
ETA: Also, this is not the effort he wants to see me make. He wants me to go back to my family and give them another talking to.
I still don't understand what's going on completely.
I don't either I'm really hoping I can connect with this therapist tomorrow. I feel like I'm just throwing everything into the air and letting the wind make sense of it.
There was a lot I wanted to say but I'm on my phone and my office has terrible reception.
Honestly, they all sound no good. Your family, your husband, all of them. I'm glad you're posting and talking about this with us. I'm even more glad that you're seeing a therapist starting tomorrow.
ETA: Also, this is not the effort he wants to see me make. He wants me to go back to my family and give them another talking to.
OMG. I seriously laughed out loud. The irony!!. That's exactly what HE wants- for YOU to be "magically fixed" and for your family to "magically" stop acting the way they act.
The fact that after as many years as you've been together, HE still doesn't get that "giving them a talking to" isn't going to do jack shit - I'm speechless.
You don't need his permission to go to counseling.
Why is he so angry with you today? Is it about the appointment with a therapist?
I think that's part of it. Someone said yesterday that he wants to be the "fixer" and I think that's right too. He doesn't understand why I can't just do what he wants me to. Everything would be fine if I wasn't unwilling to just do and say everything he wants me to do and say. I tried telling him last night that I'm going to therapy to work on myself and improve my communication with him and ultimately improve our relationship. He told me he thinks I'm looking for a magic fix.
ETA: Also, this is not the effort he wants to see me make. He wants me to go back to my family and give them another talking to.
Honestly, these are red flags to me. His attitude isn't healthy and he does sound controlling.
Like others have said, it makes sense that you may have ended up with someone who shares traits with your family. It's what you know, you know what to expect. And hell, we all tend to be attracted to/pursue/date people who are similar to our pasts, unless we make conscious choices not to.
I vote ditch them all. Manipulative jackasses, all of them. I hope you like this therapist, and I hope talking to someone gives you some clarity. You are taking an awful lot of blame here and you're not coming across as the type of selfish ass who would deserve that kind of blame.
Post by partiallysunny on Sept 18, 2013 19:23:15 GMT -5
What he's asking of you isn't possible. You can't fix your family. Ever. You can only control you.
I can see him suggesting or asking for you to cut out your family (not demanding or forcing) but to tell you to constantly contact, confront, and fix them? That's insane.
I think he's already made up him mind about your marriage.
Post by captainmel on Sept 18, 2013 20:41:50 GMT -5
The more you post the more I just want to punch your H. I feel like you deserve way more respect than he's giving you and I also feel like you are taking on way too much blame. It is wearing so badly on your self esteem to keep letting him tell you that everything is your fault. It isn't, in fact I don't think in any of your examples that anything has been your fault in the slightest.
Ok. Your H sucks because he dwells on the past and us not particularly supportive. If you can say that you are not getting what you need out of the marriage, I'm not sure what else to tell you. That's your answer right there. You are not getting what you need. Why keep at it?
Your should work on standing up for yourself. You are better than you seem to give yourself credit for.
Hi everyone, ...I'm sorry, I've been trying to update for the last few hours now. I keep typing and deleting. The appointment with the counselor went well. I've already scheduled another appointment. DH and I have talked ourselves to exhaustion. He has apologized for many things he's said (particularly his comments about me going to therapy). He was really happy that my appointment went well, and he's agreed that couples counseling is a good idea for us. At the same time, he's still very upset about everything that's happened with my family and my "unwillingness" to resolve all the issues. He's not going to be happy until I give in (again) and go confront my family. We've been through this cycle several times now...so I'm digging my heels in. I am not giving in. So we're not talking right now. I'm so depressed I can barely function.
I'm looking for couples counselors now because while I like the therapist I saw last week, I'm not sure that he will. It's probably a better idea to have separate counselors anyway, right?
alare : I would be the one to move out because we're currently living with my MIL (who is a wonderful person, but it would still be extremely awkward...and I really just want to be alone). Biggest problem right now is I don't have a car.
Thank you everyone for all your kind words and support. I really do appreciate it.
Post by margarita on Sept 23, 2013 13:30:33 GMT -5
I'm glad the appointment went well, and that your H is starting to have a more open mind about counseling.
Just to clarify though - you already confronted your family, right? You talked to them about everything, and not much changed..? Why is he so convinced that confronting them again will help in any way?
I'm glad the appointment went well, and that your H is starting to have a more open mind about counseling.
Just to clarify though - you already confronted your family, right? You talked to them about everything, and not much changed..? Why is he so convinced that confronting them again will help in any way?
Yes, I have made several attempts to confront/resolve issues with my family. Nothing has changed. I think he really wants the "classic" American family. The Norman Rockwell holidays type thing. (He hasn't admitted that, though...I'm just guessing here.) I think he wants it so badly he obsesses about it. It's like he can't turn it off in his head. You know how sometimes you get in a confrontation with someone and then a few hours later you come up with something else you could have said? That's what he does. It doesn't matter what my perspective is. If I don't immediately fill his need to re-confront/restate whatever it is he's come up with, I'm "unwilling". It's like he's physically incapable of letting anything go ever.
He also admitted over this past weekend that he would probably benefit from individual therapy as well.
Sometimes gaining the courage to stand up to your family takes a long time - it took me years with the help of therapy. This is not something that is like a switch that you can turn on and off. I hope in counseling that your husband will understand that concept.
I'm glad the appointment went well, and that your H is starting to have a more open mind about counseling.
Just to clarify though - you already confronted your family, right? You talked to them about everything, and not much changed..? Why is he so convinced that confronting them again will help in any way?
Yes, I have made several attempts to confront/resolve issues with my family. Nothing has changed. I think he really wants the "classic" American family. The Norman Rockwell holidays type thing. (He hasn't admitted that, though...I'm just guessing here.) I think he wants it so badly he obsesses about it. It's like he can't turn it off in his head. You know how sometimes you get in a confrontation with someone and then a few hours later you come up with something else you could have said? That's what he does. It doesn't matter what my perspective is. If I don't immediately fill his need to re-confront/restate whatever it is he's come up with, I'm "unwilling". It's like he's physically incapable of letting anything go ever.
He also admitted over this past weekend that he would probably benefit from individual therapy as well.
I'm exhausted.
Okay, that's what I thought. I just wanted to make sure.
It sounds like he's having trouble accepting where your limits are in this situation, and how much you can really control. You cannot change your parents, you can only control how you react to their behavior. If talking to them and standing up to them hasn't changed anything, then rehashing it with them will just be frustrating for you at this point.