*Juno* re: window repairs

[Deleted]

1. I don't have kids, so I haven't really thought too much about it. In the windows we had built, the code did require the special glass (can't remember the name, gah, but it's the stuff they use in car windows) around our window seat. It didn't cost much (if any) more than regular glass, so if you wanted to replace the glass, I don't think it would cost that much, though you'd be losing any wavy you have. I don't think I'd make it a huge priority in my house (you'd have to be standing near a window that does break and I'd be much more worrid about heavy objects falling than some glass on the floor), but that's personal. Maybe you prioritize and replace glass that's over their beds/in their rooms or something. Either way, replacing glass is aesthetically better than slapping white plastic on your house.

2. Encapsulation basically. Once it's painted over with latex and no longer chipping, it should be OK. On our interiors, I used all sorts of equipment (HEPA vac, respirator, Dexter-style plastic) and stripped everything and stained, but I know you're not up for that. We're having a painter in this summer to re-paint our exterior, and they do all sorts of tenting/plastic when they sand to prevent contamination. In CA, any house painter with a license has to have lead paint training and can help you deal with it. If you have any other painted woodwork in the house, it would have the same issue, so unless you are ripping out all the woodwork, ripping out window sashes won't help.

3. That's where I'll fail you. Because we DIY'd, I just don't know. And it's also why I was hounding you for your experience with it on TN I know what's involved, and I know it's not rocket science (well, except for the rot, which I have no experience with), so I'm just curious if I should quit my day job, haha. I do know that even if it was the same or more, I (and I understand you're not me) would not use vinyl.

I hope it works for you. They are your windows, so I understand if it doesn't, but I just wanted you to hear both sides. Just don't tell me if it doesn't work out LOL.

[FoxInFiji]

For #3 in general new windows either never pay for themselves or take a very long time to pay for themselves. The cost of new windows plus installation is very expensive if you can refurbish what you have. Hands down. If the new windows you're looking at are cheaper than what refurbishing costs then you're looking at some very crummy cheap windows. Vinyl windows will never pay for themselves (ie. save you enough in energy costs to give you a return on investment) because they need to be replaced in 10-15 years. Plus the energy efficiency of vinyl windows continuously decreases every year as they leak more and more. They have little-mid resale value. Quality wood windows will pay for themselves eventually but it's usually +20 years. They have a much higher resale value than vinyl. Fiberglass is between the two.

If I were you I'd definitely look into refurbishing. Rot can be patched and replaced. If your climate calls for it wood can be wrapped in aluminum cladding. You could even try fixing up one to see how you like it first.

[Deleted]

Thanks for filling in the gaps fox. I think jimbooo's in *a very moderate climate* (I think with no AC???), so energy-wise, I don't think she'll be able to recoup the cost of any option in energy, but you'd know better than I. But I think the cost of a rip-out-and-replace cycle with vinyl is going to be a lot more (environmental cost + aesthetic cost + cash cost + hassle cost).

Edit: Sorry Jimbooo, you gave the location info on TN, but it occurred to me I shouldn't re-broadcast for you w/out permission.

[FoxInFiji]

Well in that case I'd still try to stick with your old windows since no new window will really pay for itself.

LOL I guess Juno knows something I don't. I assumed jimbooo was a guy.

[Deleted]

Domer, if you have any questions, I might be able to help. There are also lots of good books and internet resources on the subject, and there really isn't anything about it that is technically difficult (some of it can be a little physically challenging as far as removing trims/parting beads without breaking them, getting misthreaded cords out of the pulleys etc.), but the technology is pretty easy to understand once you see how they work.

ETA: Clarification, our casements haven't needed any work, so I only have experience with double hungs. I might be helpful with double hung questions, not casement questions.

[FoxInFiji]

Casement windows cost much more than double hung or sliders because of the mechanisms in casement and the extra weight the frame needs to support when the window is hanging outside your house. The moderate sized 3x4' casements we just put in our bedroom were $440 a piece. To have them installed it was 50% more. The large 6x4' sliders we have in most rooms are $700 a piece and the large 3.5x6' french casement windows are $960 a piece. Tack on 50% more to install. Luckily my experienced FIL helped us install the four new windows and is willing to help us in a few years when we replace all the rest of the windows in the house. So we save a lot on installation costs. The 19 windows we have in the house will be $13K total.

With windows you really have to get a quote from every single reliable and trustworthy company you can. The exact same Marvin wood alum/clad windows ranged anywhere from $16-20K at the seven other places I got quotes from.

[Deleted]

The old casements were pretty much just miniature doors: couple of hinges and a latch. Most all the old casements I've seen here are about 2'x3'; they are the ones used above the fireplace in every CA bungalow. So they aren't particularly heavy. New casements have gears, cranks, etc. to open and new windows are generally heavier because they have double glazing. We have one in our detached garage. It has a crank thing to open, double glazing, and a built-in interior screen, so it is much more complicated than the ones on the main house.

When we purchased our new casement window for the bathroom to match the old casements in our foyer, the cost wasn't any different (i.e. it was MUCH cheaper than the larger double-hungs we had made). Perhaps there would have been a big price difference on larger and/or modern style casements?

[lys]

FoxinFigi must be talking about low to medium quality vinyl windows. High end quality vinyl windows will last almost a lifetime - and will not leak.
They wiill not be paid for in savings, but will give you a better quality of life in sound deadening, a more comfortable home, less heat loss, and increased home vaue.
If you are buying your vinyl windows from a big box store you are getting cheap windows.

[Deleted]

LOL that he's encouraging people to call commercial owners of ugly replacements. That shirt is verrrrrry tempting...I'm always looking for "good cause" T-shirts!

I see that I have a kindred spirit in Nursecramer You rock! Good luck on all that reglazing. Even I'm too lazy (or maybe burned out now) for that much work; we're paying the house painter to do it this summer when he paints. I glazed all the storm windows we built, and even though we only have one-over-one, that was enough to make me not want to glaze for a long time!

[housegeek]

Jun 24, 2012 16:19:21 GMT -5 nursecramer said:

Most heat loss is through the roof and basement; only a small percentage is through the windows, and installing storm windows will make old single-pane wooden windows perform comparably to vinyl double pane windows.


[/quote]
That's not necessarily true, we don't have a basement and are a 1st floor condo with someone over us, but if we stand by the windows in the winter you can literally feel a breeze. It's like an AC unit. We had to tape em up with those foam floor blocks last winter.i can only imagine its the other way around in the summer.

I think it really depends on your housing market as well whether or not anyone cares about vinyl vs wood, I certainly didn't ( and still don't).

[Deleted]

Jun 24, 2012 20:40:14 GMT -5 housegeek said:

That's not necessarily true, we don't have a basement and are a 1st floor condo with someone over us, but if we stand by the windows in the winter you can literally feel a breeze. It's like an AC unit. We had to tape em up with those foam floor blocks last winter.i can only imagine its the other way around in the summer.

I think it really depends on your housing market as well whether or not anyone cares about vinyl vs wood, I certainly didn't ( and still don't).

Your current windows are vinyl?

[housegeek]

Jun 24, 2012 20:59:29 GMT -5 @juno said:

Your current windows are vinyl?

Current rentals windows are 20 year old vinyl
New house has Vinyl too.

[Deleted]

Jun 26, 2012 21:30:47 GMT -5 housegeek said:

Jun 24, 2012 20:59:29 GMT -5 @juno said:

Your current windows are vinyl?

Current rentals windows are 20 year old vinyl
New house has Vinyl too.

Then I couldn't have written a better indictment of vinyl windows myself.

[housegeek]

Jun 26, 2012 21:59:27 GMT -5 @juno said:

Jun 26, 2012 21:30:47 GMT -5 housegeek said:

Current rentals windows are 20 year old vinyl
New house has Vinyl too.

Then I couldn't have written a better indictment of vinyl windows myself.

Sure, 20 year old windows. But the whole place was built like a funhouse, not just the windows. I've had newer vinyl windows in other rentals and haven't had an issue.

[FoxInFiji]

Jun 26, 2012 23:31:43 GMT -5 housegeek said:

Jun 26, 2012 21:59:27 GMT -5 @juno said:

Then I couldn't have written a better indictment of vinyl windows myself.

Sure, 20 year old windows. But the whole place was built like a funhouse, not just the windows. I've had newer vinyl windows in other rentals and haven't had an issue.

Give it a few years and you will. Quality windows should last well beyond the 20 year mark. Vinyl expands and contracts at a much faster rate than glass so there is no way to properly maintain the seal around the glass assembly. Over time it will crack and leak air. Infiltration of outside air is where you see your highest heating and cooling loads when it comes to windows. There is no way to fix that after the fact so you just have to toss and install new windows. Costing you more in the long run than just buying a quality window in the first place (if you are still living in the house).