I strongly dislike use of the word "girl" in a professional context - like "oh, she's a nice girl--you'll enjoy working with her" or "You girls going to make it to the 4pm meeting?" I figure you would never use boy in any of these contexts, so girl is inappropriate too, and sort of takes women down a peg to being referred to as children when used. I've trained a few guys I work closely with (and am friendly with) out of using it (gal, woman, ladies, guys, and person all work pretty well too!).
But in discussing it with some other female coworkers, few of them are bothered by it or even notice it.
Post by jerseyjaybird on Sept 24, 2013 13:20:16 GMT -5
I'm totally bothered by this, too, and I rarely think that "gals" or "ladies" is an appropriate substitute, actually. ("You'll enjoy working with her" or "Going to the 4 p.m. meeting?" work fine.) My workplace is mostly women (except at the top, where it's mostly men---typical for museums), so it doesn't come up frequently. I went to a women's college, though, and will enthusiastically correct the term "girls' school." Almost all of my coworkers would, too.
I see the point, but I just don't get pearly clutchy about the girl v woman thing. Maybe that makes me a bad feminist. I personally just see it more as a gender descriptor v. A statement re maturity or whatever. n the group context, I'd be more likely to say "you guys" or "ladies", though.
I really don't notice it. I probably say 'you guys" at work but most of my contact with people is IM or Email so it doesn't realy come into play. Out of work though, I am a 'chick' person. I'll constantly say " you know, that chick with the red hair.. or that chick that was dating Jim a few years ago" It's something I picked up forever ago and it's just stuck.
I've tried to train myself to say "folks" since it seems to be a fairly general terms for a group of people. I try not to say girl either but it is a bad habit.
I also dislike the use of "girl" in basically any setting except talking to female children. On the other hand, I tend to use "guys" to refer to arbitrary groups of people - all male, all female, and mixed. I think "ladies" can be acceptable when referring to an all-female group, just as "gentlemen" could be used for an all-male group.
Post by msmerymac on Sept 24, 2013 13:28:52 GMT -5
It pisses me off. I've gotten emails addressed to "girls" before (when, in fact, all of the recipients were women, but the writer was a man). Unfortunately, I didn't say anything because I enjoy working for a pay check.
Some of the examples you used, I don't know that I'd notice. but I have heard someone say "Oh- give that to my girl (secretary) to do". THAT bothers me. Or "The girl at the front desk can help you."..
I think when it's talking about ONE person is when I notice it and it tends to bother me.
I see "girls" as an equivalent to "guys", which I use all the time. I also use ladies. The only time I'm bothered is when it comes out of the mouth of a 60-year-old man, or someone else who says it in a condescending way. I don't want people referring to me as a girl in professional meetings, but I'm not offended if someone refers to a group of women collectively as "girls", or when someone says something like, "What's that girl's name who works in marketing?"
Yes, not a fan. I know a few of my female coworkers also dislike it, but would guess most women in our office don't care. I've given up on trying to point out these issues to people like that, because the explanation just seems to go over their heads.
It pisses me off. I've gotten emails addressed to "girls" before (when, in fact, all of the recipients were women, but the writer was a man). Unfortunately, I didn't say anything because I enjoy working for a pay check.
My workplace is very much a boys' club, in an historically male-dominated industry, so that kind of shit happens all the time. I have called out the offender before, but in my case, it's never been someone so high up that I cared whether I offended. One of the guys who did this regularly now says "ladies," which I can tolerate. He's a 68-year-old Icelandic guy. "Ladies" is the best I can hope for.
Some of the examples you used, I don't know that I'd notice. but I have heard someone say "Oh- give that to my girl (secretary) to do". THAT bothers me. Or "The girl at the front desk can help you."..
I think when it's talking about ONE person is when I notice it and it tends to bother me.
This is where I fall on this too. I also say, "boys" when referring to my group of engineers. I guess I am 12.
Post by BeagleMama on Sept 24, 2013 13:41:59 GMT -5
Agreed, I dislike it too. I will say I rarely hear it around my workplace, things are more general neutral in email greetings and gathering requests ("folks" "get the group" "gather everyone").
I'm on the board of Junior League and I definitely hear it there. I stick with ladies/women or just don't associate a gender.
I haven't noticed it, so I guess it doesn't bother me since I work in like the top 3 most old-boys-club type workplace ever. Last week, I was in a meeting with a few men and another woman and when the meeting was up the senior exec said something like "Ok, boys. Have a good weekend." We were all like, wtf?
Post by CrazyLucky on Sept 24, 2013 13:51:57 GMT -5
I hate girl. I don't mind ladies. I used to hate kid or kiddo, but now it doesn't seem so bad I work in a male dominated field, but rarely hear someone at work say "girl." If I do, I almost always call them out on it.
I do not like it but our newest agent in the office generally gets under my skin answers they phone "Hey, girl!" which I hate. I also totally acted like I did not hear him at the restaurant last Friday when he hollar out "Hey, Girl" when I was out to lunch with my adult DD. I did it because I did not want anyone in the place to think that I knew him. I am in the south but he really get under my skin calling all of his clients "good o' boys/girls".
Post by midwest07 on Sept 24, 2013 13:57:07 GMT -5
I totally agree with you.
I also get so annoyed when unknown persons are assumed to be men, and that happens a lot in my industry which is predominately male. For example, if we want to reach out to someone in business development for a company and don't know the gender of that person, someone will say "hey find out who the business development guy is at company X and call him", etc.
Post by livinitup on Sept 24, 2013 13:59:19 GMT -5
I notice and don't use it. I often correct those that do. A tiny few can pull-off saying girl/s in a professional context. That does not give license to others.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
I dislike it. I do not think "gals" is an improvement, and unless it is in the "ladies and gentlemen" context, neither is ladies.
And I actually have an awesome anecdote about someone getting called out for use of the term girl professionally...
A few months ago I was on a conference call with a client's general counsel (a woman in her 50s with a thick Southern accent), project director (a young-ish man), and a couple other people. The GC was running the call. The PD was asked to give an update that involved him reporting that: "He talked to a girl at company X. The girl said Y", etc. At the end of his report, the conversation went like this:
GC: Thank you so much for that update, Jeff. Now do you think we need to follow up with a report to the Department of Labor or something? Jeff: What? I am not sure what you mean. (clearly baffled, as the Dept of Labor has zero to do with the project) GC: Well you must have said at least three times that you spoke with a girl at X. If they are engaging child labor, then I think we ought to be proactive and report it, don't you? Now how old was the poor thing--are we talking 8? 12? Or was she at least a teenager? Jeff: Oh no. Um, that's not what I meant. Um, oh, um...I'm sorry.
When we were buying our house we asked our mortgage lender for a insurance agent recommendation.
The person she gave me kept referring to "his girls in the office" and "the girls must have messed that up" etc.
I ended up not continuing to work with him due to the condescending way he referred to these women.
As a tangent, I met with a contractor at the house I'm buying one day to get an estimate for some work we need to have done after closing. It was a busy day, as I was in the middle of a conversation with the mold inspector and had the regular building inspector there, as well. Anyway, the contractor introduced himself and then asked me if the guy at the end of the driveway was my husband. Uhh... no, he's my agent. It was weird and awkward. I decided not to hire him because he didn't pay attention to what I was asking him for, but that certainly didn't help.