Yeah, don't humor her. I wouldn't even keep in contact with her if she has the galls to request that you and your bro send her your dad's life insurance money. That's pretty messed up.
But I do think your dad obviously cared about you guys to leave you two as the beneficiaries of his life insurance policy, whatever the amount may be. However he was in life, flaws and all, I think it's worth giving him credit for this act of kindness.
I have to respectfully disagree with this. One small token does not negate a lifetime of hurt.
OP, I'm sorry that this woman has the gall to contact you. Ignore her. She may threaten to do something, but you know she won't because she doesn't have a leg to stand on.
I didn't say this negates a lifetime of hurt. I'm saying that the fact that he remembered them in naming them beneficiaries of his life insurance policy, when he could have named his girlfriend instead, should count for something. That's not to say that all of the wrong that he did should be forgotten, just that this act of kindness should be remembered.
And I've dealt with these issues in my family, and this is how I feel. Family member who was never involved (except for to raise hell), left stuff to me in a will. I will never forget all of the pain that family member caused me. But I will give him credit for leaving me stuff when he was under no legal obligation to do so. But that's just how I feel; others may feel differently.
Yeah, don't humor her. I wouldn't even keep in contact with her if she has the galls to request that you and your bro send her your dad's life insurance money. That's pretty messed up.
But I do think your dad obviously cared about you guys to leave you two as the beneficiaries of his life insurance policy, whatever the amount may be. However he was in life, flaws and all, I think it's worth giving him credit for this act of kindness.
lol, no. there's a good chance he slapped his kids' names on there when they were toddlers and never gave it (or, in this case, them) a second a thought. gee, how kind.
Sure, there's a chance, but how would anyone know. There's also at least just as much of a chance that he consciously named them beneficiaries because it's the one and only thing he could do right by them.
Either way, he's not here to give his reasons why their named as beneficiaries, so I say give dead people the benefit of the doubt.
But if OP feels differently, only she knows what the relationship with her father was like. If she feels like he really didn't care about her and her bro and there was no chance father named them beneficiaries to do something right by them, then she would know best. I'm just saying it's worth giving this action a second thought.
Post by UMaineTeach on Sept 28, 2013 22:32:21 GMT -5
she gets nothing. ignore 100% if you need info about the policy I would contact your grandfather or contact your dad's former employer to ask if the policy was one provided though them and what the name and contact info for the company is.
Is there any chance she married him in secret? If so, in some jurisdictions, I think wills and insurance policies which omit later married spouses or latter born children might be able to be challenged on the theory that the omission was inadvertent. I wouldn't start planning on the money until it pays out. BTW: If you did just hand over the money (like crazy lady suggests) it could be considered a taxable gift from you to her - ie. you would be liable for paying taxes on the money you gave her. So watch out.
(My mom asked my brother and I to disclaim our portion of his life insurance proceeds in her favor, which we did. But that situation was very different. (1) she's our mom, (2) he had named all three of us beneficiaries, so when we disclaimed our interest it passed to her. If she isn't named as a beneficiary of his estate in his will or in the life insurance itself, it wouldn't pass to her even if you did disclaim your interests. (3) brother and I would be providing for mom at some point absent the insurance $ because she had inadequate retirement savings.)
**this post contains no legal advice or even legalish thoughts. Just the ramblings of a demented mind. Do not rely on this as legal advice**
Don't take legal advice on the Internet. sonrisa is right, there's a chance she is legally entitled to the money. You don't necessarily have to get a lawyer yet but also don't count the money as yours. I probably would either do some research or consult an estates and trust lawyer in this situation, because thereis a chance she can claim the money if she can cobble together some constructive marriage argument.
I have to respectfully disagree with this. One small token does not negate a lifetime of hurt.
OP, I'm sorry that this woman has the gall to contact you. Ignore her. She may threaten to do something, but you know she won't because she doesn't have a leg to stand on.
I didn't say this negates a lifetime of hurt. I'm saying that the fact that he remembered them in naming them beneficiaries of his life insurance policy, when he could have named his girlfriend instead, should count for something. That's not to say that all of the wrong that he did should be forgotten, just that this act of kindness should be remembered.
And I've dealt with these issues in my family, and this is how I feel. Family member who was never involved (except for to raise hell), left stuff to me in a will. I will never forget all of the pain that family member caused me. But I will give him credit for leaving me stuff when he was under no legal obligation to do so. But that's just how I feel; others may feel differently.
It is fine that you feel that way but does not mean that the OP cannot feel the way she does as well. OP does NOT have to "give him credit."
Post by tripleshot on Sept 29, 2013 8:10:31 GMT -5
Thanks ladies. I will call my grandpa to try to get some info. I honestly don't care about the money but IF it's true and a check shows up, I won't turn it down either. A new $8000 fall wardrobe would be fab, though.
Yeah, don't humor her. I wouldn't even keep in contact with her if she has the galls to request that you and your bro send her your dad's life insurance money. That's pretty messed up.
But I do think your dad obviously cared about you guys to leave you two as the beneficiaries of his life insurance policy, whatever the amount may be. However he was in life, flaws and all, I think it's worth giving him credit for this act of kindness.
Do birds put bows in your hair there, Cinderella? I mean, seriously--that's not a real life statement. one act of whatever doesn't make for an entire lifetime of hurt. Newp.
Wow.
So my opinion on giving dad credit for naming OP as beneficiary makes me "Cinderella." Whatever.
He's dead, people. We don't know why he named OP and her brother as beneficiary. I would give him the benefit of the doubt in regards as to why he named them beneficiaries (not that he earns father of the year award). Others feel differently. But for whatever reason, my opinion warrants comments like this?
Sure, there's a chance, but how would anyone know. There's also at least just as much of a chance that he consciously named them beneficiaries because it's the one and only thing he could do right by them.
Either way, he's not here to give his reasons why their named as beneficiaries, so I say give dead people the benefit of the doubt.
But if OP feels differently, only she knows what the relationship with her father was like. If she feels like he really didn't care about her and her bro and there was no chance father named them beneficiaries to do something right by them, then she would know best. I'm just saying it's worth giving this action a second thought.
OMG just STAHP!
OP has made it very clear that he was a deadbeat father, no "second thoughts" are needed.
And fuck no! Shitty parents DON'T get the benefit of the doubt just because they pass away. It doesn't change who they were, or how they treated people during their life. Fuck that noise.
Thanks ladies. I will call my grandpa to try to get some info. I honestly don't care about the money but IF it's true and a check shows up, I won't turn it down either. A new $8000 fall wardrobe would be fab, though.
Good luck. Hope she doesn't cause you a big headache.
The funeral home has always taken care of the life insurance filing in my experience. So the process would start right away but the check would take longer.
Do birds put bows in your hair there, Cinderella? I mean, seriously--that's not a real life statement. one act of whatever doesn't make for an entire lifetime of hurt. Newp.
Wow.
So my opinion on giving dad credit for naming OP as beneficiary makes me "Cinderella." Whatever.
He's dead, people. We don't know why he named OP and her brother as beneficiary. I would give him the benefit of the doubt in regards as to why he named them beneficiaries (not that he earns father of the year award). Others feel differently. But for whatever reason, my opinion warrants comments like this?
Because she's not asking for opinions on how to feel about her dad or why he named her as a beneficiary.
Do birds put bows in your hair there, Cinderella? I mean, seriously--that's not a real life statement. one act of whatever doesn't make for an entire lifetime of hurt. Newp.
Wow.
So my opinion on giving dad credit for naming OP as beneficiary makes me "Cinderella." Whatever.
He's dead, people. We don't know why he named OP and her brother as beneficiary. I would give him the benefit of the doubt in regards as to why he named them beneficiaries (not that he earns father of the year award). Others feel differently. But for whatever reason, my opinion warrants comments like this?
omg. Saying this once was kind of insensitive to the OP, but continuing to harp on it is downright assholey behavior. So yes, the extent to which you've taken this has earned you comments like that. Let it go.
So my opinion on giving dad credit for naming OP as beneficiary makes me "Cinderella." Whatever.
He's dead, people. We don't know why he named OP and her brother as beneficiary. I would give him the benefit of the doubt in regards as to why he named them beneficiaries (not that he earns father of the year award). Others feel differently. But for whatever reason, my opinion warrants comments like this?
omg. Saying this once was kind of insensitive to the OP, but continuing to harp on it is downright assholey behavior. So yes, the extent to which you've taken this has earned you comments like that. Let it go.
I wasn't responding to posts that merely state a difference of opinion that I do. My responses were to the "Cinderella" and "bows" comment and the multiple other similar comments. I think those are the "assholey" comments. I'm done responding.
And, OP, I do think some of my comments were insensitive, but I didn't realize that at the time of posting. I got carried away responding to others. I apologize.
No need for an attorney. The beneficiary designation on a life insurance policy is ironclad. And you're his natural children. And they weren't married. The end.
Why does everyone always jump to "get an attorney"?
Ditto what some had said about the life insurance. But if it's through a employer's life insurance benefit, there may not be much of a delay to get the check.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
I would guess that the funeral home started the process. They will most likely be paid first and then the rest split between you and your brother. Call you Grandfather and ask him what was done with the funeral home.
Also, if this GF keeps harassing you and your brother over money that is not hers then just call the Police.
So my opinion on giving dad credit for naming OP as beneficiary makes me "Cinderella." Whatever.
He's dead, people. We don't know why he named OP and her brother as beneficiary. I would give him the benefit of the doubt in regards as to why he named them beneficiaries (not that he earns father of the year award). Others feel differently. But for whatever reason, my opinion warrants comments like this?
Your opinion on what you would do with your relatives is fine. Suggesting the OP should hold the same opinion is where you get into trouble in this post. You repeatedly suggested she should give him the benefit of the doubt or give him some credit for how he chose to leave the life insurance proceeds. If she chooses to do so, that is fine. But it won't be because she "should."
For all we know, he specifically left it to his kids because he knew it would piss the girlfriend off rather than to be a gift to his kids. Some people are vindictive that way*. OP is the only one in the position to speculate.
(* My husband and his brother were the only named beneficiaries in a distant great aunt's will. She excluded the closer relatives who had cared for her through out her life and in her dotage. She had never met either kid and hadn't talked to their dad in decades. As it turned out, she had mortgaged everything to the hilt so there was nothing to leave and probably did that so the closer relatives wouldn't know about the dire straits she left. In practice, all she did was hurt the people who knew her and cared for her. These things are complicated.)
ETA: omg, purrbox. What part of "this isn't about you" don't you understand? (My response wasn't even all about you even though you took it that way). Speculate about your relative all you want. Likewise, I'm free to speculate about my family. None of that matters for the OP. I'm not going to respond as a separate post. I'm not reviving this post just because you can't let things go.
Yeah, don't humor her. I wouldn't even keep in contact with her if she has the galls to request that you and your bro send her your dad's life insurance money. That's pretty messed up.
But I do think your dad obviously cared about you guys to leave you two as the beneficiaries of his life insurance policy, whatever the amount may be. However he was in life, flaws and all, I think it's worth giving him credit for this act of kindness.
Do birds put bows in your hair there, Cinderella? I mean, seriously--that's not a real life statement. one act of whatever doesn't make for an entire lifetime of hurt. Newp.
Post by prettyinpink on Sept 29, 2013 10:38:07 GMT -5
We had something similar happen in our family. DH's aunt died and GFIL found an old life insurance policy that she had named him on and not her current H. GFIL split the money between all of the grandkids and FIL and called it good. Aunt's Husband tried to fight it but nothing came out of it because Aunt never changed the beneficiary so legally he had no grounds.
So my opinion on giving dad credit for naming OP as beneficiary makes me "Cinderella." Whatever.
He's dead, people. We don't know why he named OP and her brother as beneficiary. I would give him the benefit of the doubt in regards as to why he named them beneficiaries (not that he earns father of the year award). Others feel differently. But for whatever reason, my opinion warrants comments like this?
Your opinion on what you would do with your relatives is fine. Suggesting the OP should hold the same opinion is where you get into trouble in this post. You repeatedly suggested she should give him the benefit of the doubt or give him some credit for how he chose to leave the life insurance proceeds. If she chooses to do so, that is fine. But it won't be because she "should."
For all we know, he specifically left it to his kids because he knew it would piss the girlfriend off rather than to be a gift to his kids. Some people are vindictive that way*. OP is the only one in the position to speculate.
(* My husband and his brother were the only named beneficiaries in a distant great aunt's will. She excluded the closer relatives who had cared for her through out her life and in her dotage. She had never met either kid and hadn't talked to their dad in decades. As it turned out, she had mortgaged everything to the hilt so there was nothing to leave and probably did that so the closer relatives wouldn't know about the dire straits she left. In practice, all she did was hurt the people who knew her and cared for her. These things are complicated.)
This is the last post in this thread that I will respond to.
Response to the first paragraph: I never said OP should do anything.
Response to the second paragraph: I agree that OP is the only one in the position to speculate, so why are you and others continuing to go on and on about my first post. All I stated was a suggestion that I might do based on the information I was given and my own personal experience in a similar situation. So, why then, do you speculate as to why he might have left money to her and her brother over giving it to his girlfriend? The reasoning you give is an oddly specific speculation without any rhyme or reason.
Finally, the parenthesis: What does this have to do with anything? You're giving a specific example of what your aunt did (and speculating as to why she did it), but I don't see why that has anything to do with this situation. I too had a relative recently pass away who left things, unexpectedly to family members who he no sincere relationship with. I'm one of those people, and I believe he did this because, in some way (however little it may be), he cared for me. Otherwise, he wouldn't have left me anything; he certainly didn't have to. Maybe that's my way of making peace in my mind for the horrible relationship I had with him. Either way, I'm certainly not stating that OP should do anything.
Don't take legal advice on the Internet. sonrisa is right, there's a chance she is legally entitled to the money. You don't necessarily have to get a lawyer yet but also don't count the money as yours. I probably would either do some research or consult an estates and trust lawyer in this situation, because thereis a chance she can claim the money if she can cobble together some constructive marriage argument.
(more not legal advice) And if she does cobble together a constructive marriage argument and gets a court to rule she is entitled to the money, you might be liable for paying it back to her even after you received proceeds.
No.
The beneficiary designation on a life insurance policy is incontestable. Life insurance policies (and annuities) pass outside of probate, so they do not fall under the normal laws of asset disposition. The money goes to the beneficiaries. Furthermore, these beneficiaries had an "insurable interest" as his children, so there's literally NOTHING to dispute. Even if she WERE his wife, the money goes to the beneficiaries. The end.
If she harasses you, you don't need a lawyer. Just call the police.
(more not legal advice) And if she does cobble together a constructive marriage argument and gets a court to rule she is entitled to the money, you might be liable for paying it back to her even after you received proceeds.
No.
The beneficiary designation on a life insurance policy is incontestable. Life insurance policies (and annuities) pass outside of probate, so they do not fall under the normal laws of asset disposition. The money goes to the beneficiaries. Furthermore, these beneficiaries had an "insurable interest" as his children, so there's literally NOTHING to dispute. Even if she WERE his wife, the money goes to the beneficiaries. The end.
If she harasses you, you don't need a lawyer. Just call the police.
I'm just going to throw out there that my life insurance policy (which is through my employer) has a written clause which states that if the holder is married and the beneficiary is someone other than their spouse, the policy must be accompanied by written approval from that spouse...even if the marriage takes place after the policy is in place.
The beneficiary designation on a life insurance policy is incontestable. Life insurance policies (and annuities) pass outside of probate, so they do not fall under the normal laws of asset disposition. The money goes to the beneficiaries. Furthermore, these beneficiaries had an "insurable interest" as his children, so there's literally NOTHING to dispute. Even if she WERE his wife, the money goes to the beneficiaries. The end.
If she harasses you, you don't need a lawyer. Just call the police.
I'm just going to throw out there that my life insurance policy (which is through my employer) has a written clause which states that if the holder is married and the beneficiary is someone other than their spouse, the policy must be accompanied by written approval from that spouse...even if the marriage takes place after the policy is in place.
Depending on the state and/or whether ERISA applies, the spouse has to sign off on the bene designations. But these people weren't married. And these kids are his kids, and they have an insurable interest. (Not as if he's leaving the policy to his pet hamster, kwim.)