Post by ProfessorArtNerd on Sept 30, 2013 14:44:48 GMT -5
I've tried all my tricks, but her asides are completely distracting.
This girl is kinda... strange. Like, she will talk when it's VERY clear that who she's talking to isn't listening. LISTEN, I know you're all gonna come in here and tell me she's, like, on the spectrum or something; maybe she is, I dunno, but I would think that I'd be told this, right? I mean, I know I'm not a real teacher or anything, but such info would seem... relevant here? So don't say that, just go on the assumption that she's just a weird person. Ok?
So as far as I know, this student is just strange.
When I ask a question, I call on her sometimes, but not nearly as often as she answers me anyway. She launches into LONG semi-related stories that always involve her having been at the sites we're studying. She's also pretty disrespectful- for instance, we reviewed for the exam today, and she said, "So, like, what would you say my chances of passing are if I took no notes and haven't read the book."
The fuck?
I replied, "Not very good" because, duh.
I'm usually very good at this- art classes attract weirdos. "Oh, ok, well that's a story for another time/ we're getting pretty far off topic here, let's go back to.../ well, actually (if they're challenging me and implying I don't know my stuff, I'm not against a verbal bitchslap now and then)"
Post by DotAndBuzz on Sept 30, 2013 14:53:18 GMT -5
I had an o-chem professor pull the following:
for the blatant disrespectful speaking when he was speaking, he'd just stand quietly, staring at the person, and when they finally caught on and shut up, he'd ask "oh, are you finished? I'd hate to interrupt your conversation with my lecture."
for the know-it-all argumentative student, he just offered to let them take the final after class so the student could teach the class, since they were already so well versed in o-chem.
He was a complete ass (and lucky me got him for both semesters) - not just from how he handled stuff like this, from other things too - but it worked. For this girl I'd start with the one on one, and hope that worked. She doesn't sound like a jerk, just like you said, kind of strange.
for the blatant disrespectful speaking when he was speaking, he'd just stand quietly, staring at the person, and when they finally caught on and shut up, he'd ask "oh, are you finished? I'd hate to interrupt your conversation with my lecture."
for the know-it-all argumentative student, he just offered to let them take the final after class so the student could teach the class, since they were already so well versed in o-chem.
He was a complete ass (and lucky me got him for both semesters) - not just from how he handled stuff like this, from other things too - but it worked. For this girl I'd start with the one on one, and hope that worked. She doesn't sound like a jerk, just like you said, kind of strange.
She probably wouldn't pick up on not-so-subtle hints like these. She sounds like a person who would benefit from you setting rules for her, one on one, like only answering when called on or not to talk over you. And also, as a pp said, complimenting whatever good qualities she may have.
Post by juliahenry on Sept 30, 2013 15:02:47 GMT -5
I teach a course to grad students, and I have had my share of challenging students. I would take her aside and talk to her one-on-one. Please, though, as someone who gets to work with students who were once that disruptive "special" undergraduate, don't make a negative into a positive. If they can't hear or read a conversation, there's no way they'll take anything helpful out of your attempt to make their challenges "nice". It won't do them (or anyone else) any favors later on.
Dot, my dad swears by the stand in silence technique. I never had much luck w it in my yoga classes but those also have a different feel than academic classes. Or maybe I was doing it wrong.
Post by game blouses on Sept 30, 2013 15:09:48 GMT -5
If she's on the spectrum, it's possible that it was never identified and you wouldn't know about it. She's missing obvious social and conversational cues. I agree that engaging her is what she wants, which is why she's asking obnoxious questions, because it's worked with teachers in the past.
I'd take her one on one and say that if she has questions, she can write them down as she thinks of them and you will be sure to answer them (either in writing or verbally after class). It gives her another way of engaging with you, but not being disruptive.
I teach a course to grad students, and I have had my share of challenging students. I would take her aside and talk to her one-on-one. Please, though, as someone who gets to work with students who were once that disruptive "special" undergraduate, don't make a negative into a positive. If they can't hear or read a conversation, there's no way they'll take anything helpful out of your attempt to make their challenges "nice". It won't do them (or anyone else) any favors later on.
+1
Don't compliment her on disrupting. Just say, "Please only speak to questions you are called upon to ask. Otherwise, it is disruptive and not fair to the rest of the class."
Post by RoxMonster on Sept 30, 2013 15:22:56 GMT -5
When I have HS students doing this, I pull them aside after class and tell them theyare being disruptive and to please only talk once called on. For some I even tell them to write down their questions and ask me after class or during work time because some like to try and get us off task with extraneous questions. Just being blunt and honest, but not rude, with her may be what she needs.
Post by janiejones on Sept 30, 2013 15:28:57 GMT -5
You have an online component, right? Can you get them to reserve tangents for the message board? So you stop them as they wander and park the idea for the web chat. Do you have a white board? Write a keyword from the tangent down, then encourage them to start the discussions using those words?
I've been in classes where other annoyed students would pick up on this kind of thing and even they would redirect the conversation back to class content, calling out the tangent taker. (Full disclosure, I'm the tangent person in classes. But I hate personal conversations going on during lectures, it distracts me.)
Post by ProfessorArtNerd on Sept 30, 2013 15:34:55 GMT -5
To clarify, I call on people in this class. Sometimes she blurts things out. Sometimes, she starts with a relevant question, I'll answer, but then she just goes on and on and ON
She's my biggest challenge since I had a yappy "senior scholar" ie retired dude who loved to hear himself talk.
She does come to class very early (offfff course she does) I will talk to her one-on-one. I hate doing that- they stress not putting yourself in a compromising situation, especially as an adjunct. But I can't deal.
The last time it got distracting, the students themselves said something to the offender. So much more effective. She can't see their huffing and eye rolls. Front. And. Center. Naturally
You have an online component, right? Can you get them to reserve tangents for the message board? So you stop them as they wander and park the idea for the web chat. Do you have a white board? Write a keyword from the tangent down, then encourage them to start the discussions using those words?
I've been in classes where other annoyed students would pick up on this kind of thing and even they would redirect the conversation back to class content, calling out the tangent taker. (Full disclosure, I'm the tangent person in classes. But I hate personal conversations going on during lectures, it distracts me.)
You know, this class doesn't, but I will set one up. Probably only she would participate but still!
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
You have an online component, right? Can you get them to reserve tangents for the message board? So you stop them as they wander and park the idea for the web chat. Do you have a white board? Write a keyword from the tangent down, then encourage them to start the discussions using those words?
I've been in classes where other annoyed students would pick up on this kind of thing and even they would redirect the conversation back to class content, calling out the tangent taker. (Full disclosure, I'm the tangent person in classes. But I hate personal conversations going on during lectures, it distracts me.)
You know, this class doesn't, but I will set one up. Probably only she would participate but still!
Do it. And encourage them to use it for idea sharing for studying & papers & stuff.
I hope I'm not writing something you have tried. If so, whoops.
Anyway, in addition to what the others have said, maybe try a polite interrupt when she digresses with a 'hold that thought, let's make sure we stay on this topic first for everyone'.
Concerning the calling out, if it doesn't stop after speaking with her you could also just pretend you don't hear her briefly and focus on someone else. You're trying to give the others a chance, and attention isn't her reward.
The weird comments-maybe toss back non-engaging ones like "How you study is your decision" and move on.
She does come to class very early (offfff course she does) I will talk to her one-on-one. I hate doing that- they stress not putting yourself in a compromising situation, especially as an adjunct. But I can't deal.
Can you have a colleague or advisor in the room with you? I agree, it's not the best position to put yourself in.
Also, I'm sure her peers have been rolling their eyes at her and yelling at her to shut up her whole life. It doesn't work because the attention is rewarding.
To clarify, I call on people in this class. Sometimes she blurts things out. Sometimes, she starts with a relevant question, I'll answer, but then she just goes on and on and ON
She's my biggest challenge since I had a yappy "senior scholar" ie retired dude who loved to hear himself talk.
She does come to class very early (offfff course she does) I will talk to her one-on-one. I hate doing that- they stress not putting yourself in a compromising situation, especially as an adjunct. But I can't deal. The last time it got distracting, the students themselves said something to the offender. So much more effective. She can't see their huffing and eye rolls. Front. And. Center. Naturally
I don't mean this as a bitchy comment, but do you need to work on classroom management techniques? It sounds like you might not be fully in control of the dialogue, and if the students are at times intervening, then they may feel this way. Are you too nice, or too friendly, or too polite, or too considerate as an instructor? Women often are.
I hope I'm not writing something you have tried. If so, whoops.
Anyway, in addition to what the others said, maybe try a polite interrupt when she digresses with a 'hold that thought, let's make sure we stay on this topic first for everyone'.
Concerning the calling out, if it doesn't stop after speaking with her you could also just pretend you don't hear her briefly and focus on someone else. You're trying to give the others a chance, and attention isn't her reward.
The weird comments-maybe toss back non-engaging ones like "How you study is your decision" and move on.
Thanks! Some of these I do, and I've often said, "well ok, thanks for sharing, and now back to the Egyptians"
To clarify, I call on people in this class. Sometimes she blurts things out. Sometimes, she starts with a relevant question, I'll answer, but then she just goes on and on and ON
She's my biggest challenge since I had a yappy "senior scholar" ie retired dude who loved to hear himself talk.
She does come to class very early (offfff course she does) I will talk to her one-on-one. I hate doing that- they stress not putting yourself in a compromising situation, especially as an adjunct. But I can't deal. The last time it got distracting, the students themselves said something to the offender. So much more effective. She can't see their huffing and eye rolls. Front. And. Center. Naturally
I don't mean this as a bitchy comment, but do you need to work on classroom management techniques? It sounds like you might not be fully in control of the dialogue, and if the students are at times intervening, then they may feel this way. Are you too nice, or too friendly, or too polite, or too considerate as an instructor? Women often are.
I am definitely too nice. I've had students like her before, but this is an extreme. I usually don't have too much of a problem. Of course, I'm not at all trained as a teacher, so there's that
I hope I'm not writing something you have tried. If so, whoops.
Anyway, in addition to what the others said, maybe try a polite interrupt when she digresses with a 'hold that thought, let's make sure we stay on this topic first for everyone'.
Concerning the calling out, if it doesn't stop after speaking with her you could also just pretend you don't hear her briefly and focus on someone else. You're trying to give the others a chance, and attention isn't her reward.
The weird comments-maybe toss back non-engaging ones like "How you study is your decision" and move on.
Thanks! Some of these I do, and I've often said, "well ok, thanks for sharing, and now back to the Egyptians"
Post by W.T.Faulkner on Sept 30, 2013 15:51:44 GMT -5
My students are a lot younger, so I have specific speaking protocols in place because they all blurt shit out, lol.
Would a behavior contract work? Have a list of consequences (participation points, etc?) if she breaks rules. I'd pull her aside after class and be like, "Listen. I notice that you do x, y, and z. They're against the policies of my class. Here's a list of my policies. I need you to sign off that you read these and that you agree to adhere to them."