My students can't write

[papie]

I weep for the future. These are people in their last semester of undergrad. I asked them to write a two page text. They fucking use text speech! There are words missing everywhere, I can't follow what they are saying. Prepositions exist for a reason:use them!
And the ones who write complete sentences don't know basic French grammar. I swear I was better than that on grade 6. Their copies are COVERED in my writing correcting their grammar and orthography because it hurts my eyes.

[game blouses]

This is the reason I changed my major during my senior year and became an English teacher. I was so sick of my upper level professors explaining what a thesis statement is. I wanted to teach kids how to write well BEFORE they got to college.

[papie]

I could go back to become a French teacher. I think I would like that. It may be a bit late though, lol

[ProfessorArtNerd]

Oct 1, 2013 14:59:09 GMT -5 game blouses said:

This is the reason I changed my major during my senior year and became an English teacher. I was so sick of my upper level professors explaining what a thesis statement is. I wanted to teach kids how to write well BEFORE they got to college.

Fucking thesis statements, man

[leeann]

MAYBE you're boring them with your trivial assignments. They are gifted.

[thinkofthesoldiers]

Hand that shit back to them and tell them you will grade it when they hand in a decent paper. Do you have a writing center on campus. Send them there if you have to. I would not spend my time correcting grammar for seniors instead of grading the content of their papers.

[ProfessorArtNerd]

papie, do you teach in French? Now I'm picturing accountants in berets, eating croissants and smoking really long cigarettes lol

[Deleted]

I don't understand why students can't do this anymore. Why?

[Deleted]

Oct 1, 2013 15:50:59 GMT -5 @stellasmom said:

I don't understand why students can't do this anymore. Why?

Because it's hard to include writing in a standardized test.

I remember we use to have writing prompts, from at least 5th grade on if not before then, where we'd have to write a 5 paragraph essay in X amount of time.  Page limits and time changed based on grade.  This wasn't just in English class (though more frequently there as tests).

Thesis statement w three main points, introduction, conclusion.  BAM! Essay.  This structure has carried me throughout my life.

When I was editing student essays I was surprised how many didn't know this or didn't do it.

[ProfessorArtNerd]

Hell, I freaking TELL my students what their thesis should be about (to an extent) and they still mess it all up. With help from the witting center. And their moms, I'm sure.

[trafficgirl]

I remember sitting in my freshman English class, on the first day of the first quarter of college, and no one else in the class had written anything remotely close to a thesis statement...ever. The instructor about passed out.

I cannot even imagine getting to the last year of undergrad without doing so. Or beyond that, using text speech in a college level paper. I cringe.

[iamgrace]

I really think this is an epidemic and it's getting worse. I remember having to do a group project in 4th yr university and being appalled at some writing. I'm pretty sure I rewrote the whole thing before we submitted it.

[ohiowan]

papie, the real question here is: how does actually grading these papers inform your practice. You're going about it all wrong.

[Deleted]

Ugggggghhhhhh.

Where can I send my kid that will teach him the same stuff they taught me? I had "Thesis, supporting statements, conclusion" drilled into my head from the age of 10 on.

[sporklemotion]

Oct 1, 2013 15:53:53 GMT -5 ninjabridemom said:

Oct 1, 2013 15:50:59 GMT -5 @stellasmom said:

I don't understand why students can't do this anymore. Why?

Because it's hard to include writing in a standardized test.

This, but also, students don't read as much as they used to, so they don't have an ear for what sounds awkward.  My students (HS) also don't proofread, which doesn't help.  When we look at their writing after the fact, they can't tell me what they meant to say.  Well, if you don't know, I certainly won't.

[Deleted]

Oct 1, 2013 16:19:18 GMT -5 @stellasmom said:

Ugggggghhhhhh.

Where can I send my kid that will teach him the same stuff they taught me? I had "Thesis, supporting statements, conclusion" drilled into my head from the age of 10 on.

I am wondering the same thing (re: where to send).  Writing is so fucking crucial.

Do you think our kids would do writing prompts for us???  My mom tricked me into summer homework for years and years and years.  My kids, so far, seem smarter than me though.

[berbles]

This is why the CA state university system, as a whole, adopted the writing workshop requirement.

You can't graduate from a CSU without taking a writing class that is specifically tailored to your major. So engineering students take an engineering workshop and they write about relevant topics for their desired profession.

Great concept. Made me laugh that we still had to take this class in the journalism & mass comm department.

[papie]

Oct 1, 2013 15:45:55 GMT -5 ProfessorArtNerd said:

papie, do you teach in French? Now I'm picturing accountants in berets, eating croissants and smoking really long cigarettes lol

Lol
French but not France

[berbles]

Oct 1, 2013 16:30:45 GMT -5 toledo said:

Oct 1, 2013 16:28:05 GMT -5 berbles said:

Great concept. Made me laugh that we still had to take this class in the journalism & mass comm department.

....have you read a newspaper lately?  "Journalists" are becoming as lazy/untrained as anyone else.

Oh, I totally agree.  And since I took that class, I can understand why.

We learned how to write our own obituaries.

I wrote a 10 page paper about developing soccer fans in the US.


Part of the problem is that the journalists are catering to their audience.  I was specifically told that newspapers are written at a 5th grade reading level.  Standard.  

ETA: and since I was actually a PR major, I learned pretty quickly that 90% of the newspaper articles out there are written by PR people, not the journalists whose names are on the byline. 

[cleo29]

well, you did say a two page text.

[papie]

A lot of them definitely didn't proofread. These papers were just homework, 1 pt if it is done, 0 if it is not. But it still hurts my head.
We are allowed to assign up to 10% of the mark to the quality of French. You bet I do it for their term papers. Most of them just lose their entire 10%. It makes you want to pull your hair out.

[papie]

Oct 1, 2013 16:39:46 GMT -5 cleo29 said:

well, you did say a two page text.

Lol
I guess this wasn't the appropriate wording?
I actually asked for "une réflexion de deux pages" because I wanted them to think and use their brains. Nailed it!

[DotAndBuzz]

Oct 1, 2013 15:54:38 GMT -5 ProfessorArtNerd said:

Hell, I freaking TELL my students what their thesis should be about (to an extent) and they still mess it all up. With help from the witting center. And their moms, I'm sure.

Oh, absolutely.  My mom proofread every.single.one of my sister's papers in college, and still basically writes her cover letters.  She's a effing retired teacher, my sister sucks at writing, so my mom just "helps her out."  Sister is now applying to grad school (just got a nice low GRE score because "tests are stupid and I don't actually need any of this stuff").  When Mom was telling me about the application process, she actually said "WE need to start thinking about her personal statements and career goals for her application essays."  WE.  So yes, she absolutely will be writing those for my sister as well, because "sister just isn't good at that kind of thing."  Gee, wonder why not?
 
And no, she didn't proofread my brother or my papers beyond maybe middle school, and that proofreading was more of an instructional session instead of just fixing our mistakes.  Who the eff knows what happened with my sister.