Best Lean In advice?

[ijack]

you need a very supportive and helpful partner

[Deleted]

Oct 14, 2013 13:51:12 GMT -5 ijack said:

you need a very supportive and helpful partner

This was something I wasn't expecting to read in the book. It was a pleasant surprise to hear that and it will be nearly impossible to succeed at work without so much help at home.

[carfar]

Don't preemptively "lean out" in anticipation that you will eventually have to if it's not what you really want. (IE don't not take on a promotion or a new job etc in anticipation that you may want to have a baby etc)

Have discussions (even about difficult topics)

[Deleted]

Take a seat at the table. Don't sit in the back of the room during meetings.

[Deleted]

Oct 14, 2013 14:08:23 GMT -5 carrotsmakemefat said:

Oct 14, 2013 14:02:58 GMT -5 monsterz said:

Take a seat at the table. Don't sit in the back of the room during meetings.

I absolutely do this. I've noticed huge difference.

Interesting advice about not accepting promotions if you are close to wanting a baby. Does that also include a job hop?

The pp had a double negative. The advice is to accept promos even if you expect to have a baby within x time. You should plan only when it becomes reality. Apparently, a lot of people start scaling back ambitions and career trajectory long before they actually need to. I'm so guilty of this.

[raangoli]

Oct 14, 2013 14:17:20 GMT -5 @choco said:

Oct 14, 2013 14:08:23 GMT -5 carrotsmakemefat said:

I absolutely do this. I've noticed huge difference.

Interesting advice about not accepting promotions if you are close to wanting a baby. Does that also include a job hop?

The pp had a double negative. The advice is to accept promos even if you expect to have a baby within x time. You should plan only when it becomes reality. Apparently, a lot of people start scaling back ambitions and career trajectory long before they actually need to. I'm so guilty of this.

I will admit that I am guilty of this as well. I find myself thinking and even saying, well it would have been perfect 2-3 years ago, but I am not sure I want to take that on now (in anticipation of starting a family). I shouldn't do that to myself.

[Deleted]

Maybe this is best saved for another thread, but why do women sit at the back of the room/not at the table? I've never had this impulse - or at least not recently. (I'm trying to think back to my first few years as an associate. I don't recall a time, but if I did, it was because I was the most junior person in the room, not because I was a woman.) You better believe I think I belong at the table now. I also can't tell you the number of times that I've been the only woman in the room. It happens a LOT. (My favorite was the time when the subject matter of the case was breast pads, baby bottles, and pacifiers. 6 dudes and me. ) But if anything I think I belong there MORE.

[brit1017]

The part that resonated with me the most was how women feel much more self-doubt and insecurity than men do in the same situation. It helped me be more aware when I start to doubt myself and conciously give myself a kick in the ass.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using proboards

[ijack]

Oct 14, 2013 14:27:07 GMT -5 BirdGirl said:

Maybe this is best saved for another thread, but why do women sit at the back of the room/not at the table? I've never had this impulse - or at least not recently. (I'm trying to think back to my first few years as an associate. I don't recall a time, but if I did, it was because I was the most junior person in the room, not because I was a woman.) You better believe I think I belong at the table now. I also can't tell you the number of times that I've been the only woman in the room. It happens a LOT. (My favorite was the time when the subject matter of the case was breast pads, baby bottles, and pacifiers. 6 dudes and me. ) But if anything I think I belong there MORE.

Because women tend to think that as a junior person they shouldn't sit at the table, but a man would never think that.

[Deleted]

I always want a good seat at any table. I think it's an ENTJ thing.

[SJ]

Oct 14, 2013 16:01:21 GMT -5 @kcpokergal said:

I always want a good seat at any table. I think it's an ENTJ thing.

Seriously. This ESTJ is front and center.

Unless the meeting is boring or going to suck. Then I sit in the back to play in my phone.

[winnied]

I really enjoyed the advice of a friend/colleague of hers, included in the book, that the years your kids are young (and daycare expenses are high) you need to view that money spent as an investment in your career and future earnings, not as some huge cost. After all, for most families, it's a few years in terms of how many years you are working.

That bit of advice really guided me in my current decision that when we start a family, H and I will view daycare expenses as an investment. H really liked this bit of advice as well and he's fully on board.

[wanderlustmom]

Oct 14, 2013 16:51:29 GMT -5 SJ said:

Oct 14, 2013 16:01:21 GMT -5 @kcpokergal said:

I always want a good seat at any table. I think it's an ENTJ thing.

Seriously. This ESTJ is front and center.

Unless the meeting is boring or going to suck. Then I sit in the back to play in my phone.

Same and I am ENFJ. I just want to make sure everyone is at the front. 

The best advice I read was to pick a supportive husband. My husband values my career, is an equal partner and believes in what I do.  It helped get me through the hardest years to be a working mom for me (ages 1-5).

[gibbinator]

I really related to "imposter syndrome". I keep reminding myself that a man would apply to jobs he's only 60% qualified for

[mskitkat]

Oct 14, 2013 17:41:04 GMT -5 gibbinator said:

I really related to "imposter syndrome". I keep reminding myself that a man would apply to jobs he's only 60% qualified for

This was huge for me to read, because I just got a promotion I wasn't sure I was ready to take on since I wasn't 100% THERE yet.

[Deleted]

Oct 14, 2013 17:20:08 GMT -5 wanderlustmom said:

Oct 14, 2013 16:51:29 GMT -5 SJ said:

Seriously. This ESTJ is front and center.

Unless the meeting is boring or going to suck. Then I sit in the back to play in my phone.

Same and I am ENFJ. I just want to make sure everyone is at the front. 

The best advice I read was to pick a supportive husband. My husband values my career, is an equal partner and believes in what I do.  It helped get me through the hardest years to be a working mom for me (ages 1-5).

Interesting - I'm an INTJ and want to be at the table - tend to sit back and soak it all in before adding my $0.02. 

I wish this book was around 3 years ago and I didn't stay put at my current job b/c I thought we'd have kids only to find out we can't.  Oh well, c'est la vie and it's become strong motivation to move myself forward!

[Deleted]

ESTJ signing in

Carrots, I also liked the idea of creating your own role. It resonated with me personally. Many women want to "wait until the job opens up," while men feel more comfortable telling management that a new job needs to be created...and oh, by the way, they'll be the perfect fit!

The other one is taking credit for your accomplishments. This has always resonated with me. I remember hearing my grandfather saying that no one would toot my horn for me.

[bunnysmom]

What would you do if you weren't afraid?

[midwest07]

Oct 14, 2013 13:58:55 GMT -5 carfar said:

Don't preemptively "lean out" in anticipation that you will eventually have to if it's not what you really want. (IE don't not take on a promotion or a new job etc in anticipation that you may want to have a baby etc)

Have discussions (even about difficult topics)

I know others have reiterated already, but this was a big one for me.  I had been doing this for a couple of years and staying in a job that was going to make it easier to have kids.  Well, after over a year of trying to have a baby, I was still in the same family friendly job and really bored.  This book honestly was a huge factor in my decision to look for, and secure, a new more challenging job.  Sheryl talks about how she took her job at Facebook either when she was pregnant or right before.

Realize that one of her big points in saying "don't leave before you leave" is that, once you have kids, many women need to have a job that they want to go to everyday and that challenges them.  If you are going to a boring job everyday where all you can do is think about when you can leave and pick up your kids, it's likely you won't be happy.   If you enjoy your work and your day goes quickly, your whole family will be happier for it.

A related point is that you shouldn't be afraid to talk about these types of issues when looking for a job.  We (especially employers) tend to avoid conversations about gender, family, kids, work hours, etc.  She talks about a woman who almost didn't take a job at Facebook because the woman was assuming it wouldn't work out with her family life without actually asking.  Sheryl specifically asked her and they were able to discuss the issues and she decided to take the job.  In my recent job search, I had two offers.  While there were other reasons to pick the one that I did, it was made very clear that the job I took would be with a company that supports women and wants to move them up the ranks.  I really appreciated that this was discussed and was a big factor in my decision.

[cosmos]

The supportive partner really struck me. I'd never be able to handle what I do without my H.

[chia]

Oct 14, 2013 16:01:21 GMT -5 @kcpokergal said:

I always want a good seat at any table. I think it's an ENTJ thing.

Me too.
ENTP signing in.

[rubytue]

Oct 14, 2013 18:15:50 GMT -5 @shoegal said:

ESTJ signing in

Carrots, I also liked the idea of creating your own role. It resonated with me personally. Many women want to "wait until the job opens up," while men feel more comfortable telling management that a new job needs to be created...and oh, by the way, they'll be the perfect fit!

The other one is taking credit for your accomplishments. This has always resonated with me. I remember hearing my grandfather saying that no one would toot my horn for me.

I haven't read the book, but this second one is something I've been thinking about. I realized I've been waiting for the perfect opportunity, and it's not showing up. I am working on trying to create it. The last position I interviewed for, I knew I had <10% chance (it was obviously for someone else), but I saw that interview as a chance to sit with upper management and sell what I had to offer for the other, not-yet-existent position. It hasn't worked yet though lol But it's exactly what that someone else did (a male).

Oh, also, ESTJ. I tend to take the table at most meetings, except staff meetings. Then it's only about 50% of the time. The rest of the time I'd rather be playing on my phone,

[emilyinchile]

What are these meetings where there aren't enough seats for everyone at the actual, literal table (I thought "take a seat at the table" was figurative until this thread)? I can only imagine that happening in a situation where it would be obvious who the key players are who should be around the table vs. less involved or junior people who just need to sit on the sidelines and listen, and there I would either already have a seat or be a weirdo trying to steal someone else's seat. Is this normal, and I just haven't experienced it?

As far as taking credit for your accomplishments goes, a former senior CW once suggested keeping a file where you write down accomplishments and their impacts throughout the year so that you have it for any reviews or if any promotion opportunities come up. I think it's good advice.

[Deleted]

One thing that really hit me the other day just after reading the book was when I was complaining about our horrible health coverage at a large, successful company.  My coworker asserted that she is just thankful to have a job and medical coverage (as should I be apparently.)  You know what?  No.  I'm worth more than that.  I'm not going to be grateful for a crappy paying job with even worse benefits when I could have something better elsewhere.  I'm going to go find something that is worthy of my time.

[Deleted]

The dichotomy between being liked and being successful struck home for me. As well as the point that women are "supposed" to be communal. Especially in my currently work situation, where I'm struggling to click with the new boss.

[Deleted]

If you're at a crossroads, I'd pick up "So Good They Can't Ignore You". I got way more career wise from that than from "Lean In". I mean, "Lean In" was good, but frankly I don't suffer from the whole imposter syndrome, avoid the table things she claims are woman issues. Whereas I do suffer from the "what is my PASSION" dilemma that the other book addresses. His premise is that you don't need to find your passion, you need to get great at something (through diligence and practise) and then you will love it.

[carfar]

Oct 14, 2013 21:50:58 GMT -5 @chronoptomist said:

One thing that really hit me the other day just after reading the book was when I was complaining about our horrible health coverage at a large, successful company.  My coworker asserted that she is just thankful to have a job and medical coverage (as should I be apparently.)  You know what?  No.  I'm worth more than that.  I'm not going to be grateful for a crappy paying job with even worse benefits when I could have something better elsewhere.  I'm going to go find something that is worthy of my time.

OMG YES!!! Especially with the shut down and people complaining about "cushy government jobs" people should be "thankful and grateful" to have. I say if people in the private sector started demanding more loyalty, benefits, balance etc (Leaning in) or leaving for opportunities that provided it, maybe the tide would change, and we'd start to see a shift  ? 

[Here]

Oct 14, 2013 21:11:37 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Oct 14, 2013 18:15:50 GMT -5 @shoegal said:

ESTJ signing in

Carrots, I also liked the idea of creating your own role. It resonated with me personally. Many women want to "wait until the job opens up," while men feel more comfortable telling management that a new job needs to be created...and oh, by the way, they'll be the perfect fit!

The other one is taking credit for your accomplishments. This has always resonated with me. I remember hearing my grandfather saying that no one would toot my horn for me.

I haven't read the book, but this second one is something I've been thinking about. I realized I've been waiting for the perfect opportunity, and it's not showing up. I am working on trying to create it. The last position I interviewed for, I knew I had <10% chance (it was obviously for someone else), but I saw that interview as a chance to sit with upper management and sell what I had to offer for the other, not-yet-existent position. It hasn't worked yet though lol But it's exactly what that someone else did (a male).

Oh, also, ESTJ. I tend to take the table at most meetings, except staff meetings. Then it's only about 50% of the time. The rest of the time I'd rather be playing on my phone,

This resonates with me as well. I am on a project that is struggling. I got a temp promotion recently to officially move me on the project, but i am not sure if my role on the program is changing. Another manager is telling me that I can define my own job right now, but as a newcomer to an existing project I feel like there is a boys club that I might upset.  Trying to be "liked".  I think I have already made one of them upset, so whatever. The manager keeps telling me to take advantage of the opportunity and predicts i will be in a leadership position n it soon. I think the main thing that is holding me back is the fear of a challenge. This project is a huge mess and people are undercutting each other, but I keep remembering an example of how someone's career was made by taking on a challenge.

i have been sitting at the table more, especially when there is an empty seat. 

[Here]

Blame the melatonin for that not making sense.

[Deleted]

emilyinchile, we often end up with pretty big meetings where the conference room is too small for the group of people attending. So, theres a table with chairs...and then an "outer ring" of chairs that are usually pushed up against the walls of the room (not at the table.). Doesnt happen all the time, but often enough that I now keep an eye on who chooses not to sit at the table, and instead sits in the outer ring.