I don't know if him waiting for his child would have made any of it easier, I think it would be the opposite.
It's just a terribly sad story.
I agree. For whose benefit should he wait? For the wife's? The baby's? So they can have a photo of the baby laying next to him maybe?
This would be absolutely devastating and I know no one really knows until they are faced with that situation, but I would not (ultimately, maybe for a bit at the time) be angry if my husband chose to end his life support in this situation.
I don't know if him waiting for his child would have made any of it easier, I think it would be the opposite.
It's just a terribly sad story.
I agree. Especially since he would not have been able to hold the baby or talk to the baby with the tube in his throat.
Except that the kid would have had the memory of a picture of him and his dad. As someone who has lost their mom those pictures are oh so important. I know if I lost her when I was younger before I had a picture of us together, I would have mourned that. Expecially if I knew she chose to not wait till i was born.
I don't judge it. I believe people should have the right to decide when they die. I am sad for him, his wife, his unborn daughter, etc.
I can't honestly say what I would do. I think having a kid on the way would make me want to live at least long enough to see her. I wouldn't want to live that way, but then again, I don;t think I would want to miss out on meeting my kid.
I also know a lot of people who are hooked up to vents and enjoy life. Well, from what they portray. One is a friend's father. He was a quad and would be at all our soccer games and important events. I know it was hard on her family at times, but they had a lot of nursing care to help.
I'm agreeing with the people who think that he made a selfless decision. The fact that he was unable to breathe on his own makes this different from other paraplegics. He would be constantly dependent on continuous medical intervention. He would be fed through a feeding tube. He would need 24 hr care. Emergency power. etc. This would be debilitating for his wife and family and painful for him to go through.
The whole story is a tragedy. I'm sorry for him, his family, and his friends.
I agree it was selfless. We should encourage people to make decisions on their own health. I work as a nurse in a Critical Care Unit and I feel very touched that his decision was supported. I often see patients family's push their loved ones into decisions they don't really want.
The injury that occurred is not one that can be recovered from. The argument can be made that future advances in healthcare could help him but that we don't know if/when that would occur. Not wanting a life of being bedridden, in chronic pain, open bed sores, infections, recurrent hospitalization and totally reliant on others is what he choose not to partake in.
It's a sad sad story and I sympathize with the family. But I elite in hope that this story will show light andchange how people view healthcare and end of life decisions.
that is a really fucked up thing for the family to have done.
i am seriously disturbed by their waking him up from a coma to ask if he'd like to go ahead and die. i mean...who does that!?!
If there is a question of whether a person lives or dies, and there is any chance that that person is able to have a voice in that decision, I cannot imagine not giving him the option to have a voice.
The injury he sustained was devastating, but had no impact on his cognitive abilities. His family gave him a chance to have a say in his treatment plan/end of life care. I can't see anything questionable in that decision.
I don't know, I'm definitely biased, but I think they should have encouraged him more time to heal/get some counseling before making a decision. I'm a nurse at a Spinal Cord Injury rehab hospital. I work with patients with this kind of injury (and worse) everyday. It takes a good two YEARS to get a good idea of how much your spinal cord will heal.
It's possible that, with a C3 injury, he could have eventually breathed without a ventilator (and just to be clear, when a person is on a ventilator long term, it's through their trachia, not in their mouth), for most, if not the whole, day. We adapt things that people love to meet their needs (I've had a few quad hunters in my day, whose rifles were set to a sip and puff device - they would blow on a little tube and the rifle would fire). I've seen quads scuba dive, get married, skydive. Is it a devastating injury? Absolutely! But there can still be life there, you know? I've had more than one patient tell me how much they wished they'd died after their accident in the beginning, but then become so happy that they didn't. That change of heart only comes with time.
that is a really fucked up thing for the family to have done.
i am seriously disturbed by their waking him up from a coma to ask if he'd like to go ahead and die. i mean...who does that!?!
If there is a question of whether a person lives or dies, and there is any chance that that person is able to have a voice in that decision, I cannot imagine not giving him the option to have a voice.
The injury he sustained was devastating, but had no impact on his cognitive abilities. His family gave him a chance to have a say in his treatment plan/end of life care. I can't see anything questionable in that decision.
Clearly I disagree. The way the article was written makes it seem to me that he was injured, in a coma, awoken, and dead, all within less than 48 hours.
Maybe its the time frame that it happened in. Maybe its the idea that I could be in that situation and have to decide whether or not I live or die, and then knowing that I was going to die. It seems careless toward his feelings and selfish for him to have to choose so that someone else didn't have to make the decision for him.
Lynn - of those quads that ended up "scuba diving, sky diving, and getting married" how many had totally crushed C3, C4, and C5s? As you know there is a huuuuuuge range of what a quad is. Some quads are in manual chairs, can shower for themselves, prepare their own meals, brush their own teeth. Some quads are on vents and can't move anything other than their eyes, will never make a movement on their own. So to say "I know quads that do a, b, and c" paints with a very board brush and presents a picture that is likely unrealistic for this particular situation.
As for him choosing his death, it's likely that that death was way more peaceful and humane than what was to come. A lifetime of pain, the inability to go to the bathroom on his own, the inability to do ANYTHING on his own, bed sores, pneumonia, and a family that is tapped out emotionally, spiritually, and financially.
The decision is, was, an awful one. But it was humane to allow him a voice in it, and it is humane to allow for people to take power over their deaths and go out on their own terms. I can't believe that there's any judgment being cast here.
I am assuming that the family was making decisions based on the direction and advice of the doctors/medical team that was treating him. If the medical team thought that there was a chance for improvement, given more time, I suspect that they would have advised the family to wait longer.
Also, decisions about things like fusing vertebrate are very time sensitive. In this particular case, decisions likely needed to be made quickly and ALSO the patient was in a position (outside of the medically induced coma he was in) to make those decisions on his own. We don't know that given two or three more days, he would have had the same surgical options he had on THAT given day.
Again, his family seems to have loved him very much. I'm sure all of this was deeply painful for them and I am sure that they made the decision they thought were best, and right and based on the information they were being provided by a team of doctors whose job it is to make this type of recommendation.
I think it's kind of selfish not to wait to meet thte baby.
Why? I think it's the opposite. The baby isn't going to know him either way. His wife will still raise the kid alone. Waiting just to meet the kid then removing life support would be awful for his wife and seems more selfish (while more understandable). Taking care of a newborn while mourning the immediate loss of your husband sounds even worse to me. At least she can focus on herself during the first months of mourning rather than also being sleep deprived and in physical pain.
I guess I just don't understand his paralysis. They said he was talking but couldn't breathe on his own? How does that work? Honestly if my father could still talk and think I would be really sad that he didn't want to meet me. I can't imagine how hard it must be but I feel like he should have taken a little longer to decide.
I don't know if him waiting for his child would have made any of it easier, I think it would be the opposite.
It's just a terribly sad story.
I was going to post something similar to this. I think it would have made things incredibly hard for the mother and himself. It would not have benefited the child in any way as they would not remember it. I think the choice he made was smart for many reasons.
It's still hard for me to accept the course of events, though.
I'm sure it's hard for his wife to accept. I'm guessing she was trying to honor his wishes but that doesn't mean she won't feel anger about it at times. What a hard position to be in.
I guess I just don't understand his paralysis. They said he was talking but couldn't breathe on his own?
I thought he was nodding, not talking. (the link says he nodded emphatically "no." Any talking would have been after they removed the ventilator, which was what ended his life.)
I guess I just don't understand his paralysis. They said he was talking but couldn't breathe on his own? How does that work? Honestly if my father could still talk and think I would be really sad that he didn't want to meet me. I can't imagine how hard it must be but I feel like he should have taken a little longer to decide.
I've read "talking" and I've also read "communicating". My guess is that he could communicate, but he could not speak.
I guess I just don't understand his paralysis. They said he was talking but couldn't breathe on his own?
I thought he was nodding, not talking. (the link says he nodded emphatically "no." Any talking would have been after they removed the ventilator, which was what ended his life.)
Oh this makes more sense. Sadder though. There but for the grace of God....
This is a board full of women who (broadly, generally) supports the rights of a mother/father to decide to selectively terminate a pregnancy when told of devastating birth defects that would result in a short, painful life of a newborn.
A woman on this board, facing that choice, would NOT be asked why she wasn't willing to go through with her pregnancy in hopes that the doctors were wrong, why she wasn't willing to believe that medical technology might some day save her child, or why she didn't take "more time" to make an awful, terrifying, life and death decision. Anybody who DID ask those questions would be flamed right the hell out of here.
How is it, then, that when it comes to this man, so many are questioning what went into the decision this family made? Why they weren't willing to bank on what medicine would or could do for him in the future? Why his family wasn't willing to do more research? I do not understand.
They gave him a voice. A choice in what the rest of his life looked like. The chance to say goodbye to his wife and family.
It was probably painful and awful, and it is most definitely incomprehensible to those of us not there. Ultimately, they knew him best and they did what they thought HE would want, whether that was to choose to "die today" or to have the opportunity to say goodbye to his loved ones. There is nothing about that that's worthy of judgment.
Lynn - of those quads that ended up "scuba diving, sky diving, and getting married" how many had totally crushed C3, C4, and C5s? As you know there is a huuuuuuge range of what a quad is. Some quads are in manual chairs, can shower for themselves, prepare their own meals, brush their own teeth. Some quads are on vents and can't move anything other than their eyes, will never make a movement on their own. So to say "I know quads that do a, b, and c" paints with a very board brush and presents a picture that is likely unrealistic for this particular situation.
As for him choosing his death, it's likely that that death was way more peaceful and humane than what was to come. A lifetime of pain, the inability to go to the bathroom on his own, the inability to do ANYTHING on his own, bed sores, pneumonia, and a family that is tapped out emotionally, spiritually, and financially.
The decision is, was, an awful one. But it was humane to allow him a voice in it, and it is humane to allow for people to take power over their deaths and go out on their own terms. I can't believe that there's any judgment being cast here.
As I said, I've seen similar injuries. I've also seen worse injuries (I've cared for more than one C0 injury). I also know of the possible side effects and co-morbidities. You're right, there is a wide range. What I'm saying is, it is VERY difficult to know how the spinal cord (even in complete, severing injuries) will heal. I'm not judging this family for giving him a choice at all. I'm glad they could do that, and that he had no cognitive impairments. What I am saying is, SCI is a devastating, traumatic injury, and I do wonder if his decision would have been different if he'd waited a little time. Maybe it wouldn't have. I don't know. But let me be clear, I'm not judging them. It was a heartbreaking decision either way.
They gave him a voice. A choice in what the rest of his life looked like. The chance to say goodbye to his wife and family.
It was probably painful and awful, and it is most definitely incomprehensible to those of us not there. Ultimately, they knew him best and they did what they thought HE would want, whether that was to choose to "die today" or to have the opportunity to say goodbye to his loved ones. There is nothing about that that's worthy of judgment.
App like. I can't pass judgment on this family at all.
I wouldn't be angry with my H if he made that decision. I think it is pretty unselfish, actually. The amount of care needed for someone who is paralyzed is never-ending, and extremely costly. He was never going to be able to leave the hospital.
Of course I would be devastated, but not at him.
I completely agree with this.
It would definatly be a hard decision to make and hear as the wife but DH and I have had that talk before. Neither of us want to live like that and we would either want to make that choice ourselves or hope that the other one is strong enough to follow through with our wishes.
Lynn - of those quads that ended up "scuba diving, sky diving, and getting married" how many had totally crushed C3, C4, and C5s? As you know there is a huuuuuuge range of what a quad is. Some quads are in manual chairs, can shower for themselves, prepare their own meals, brush their own teeth. Some quads are on vents and can't move anything other than their eyes, will never make a movement on their own. So to say "I know quads that do a, b, and c" paints with a very board brush and presents a picture that is likely unrealistic for this particular situation.
As for him choosing his death, it's likely that that death was way more peaceful and humane than what was to come. A lifetime of pain, the inability to go to the bathroom on his own, the inability to do ANYTHING on his own, bed sores, pneumonia, and a family that is tapped out emotionally, spiritually, and financially.
The decision is, was, an awful one. But it was humane to allow him a voice in it, and it is humane to allow for people to take power over their deaths and go out on their own terms. I can't believe that there's any judgment being cast here.
As I said, I've seen similar injuries. I've also seen worse injuries (I've cared for more than one C0 injury). I also know of the possible side effects and co-morbidities. You're right, there is a wide range. What I'm saying is, it is VERY difficult to know how the spinal cord (even in complete, severing injuries) will heal. I'm not judging this family for giving him a choice at all. I'm glad they could do that, and that he had no cognitive impairments. What I am saying is, SCI is a devastating, traumatic injury, and I do wonder if his decision would have been different if he'd waited a little time. Maybe it wouldn't have. I don't know. But let me be clear, I'm not judging them. It was a heartbreaking decision either way.
I worked on a spinal cord rehab unit (and tbi) and I have to agree. I just don't think I had a single sci patient who wasn't astonished at how far they had come when they were discharged compared to when they first came/woke up.