I went to Cooley - AMA

[amelie poulain]

Both my husband and I graduated from Cooley law school.

I went there because I had a not so great LSAT score. I was working three jobs while in undergrad and had no time or money to put toward proper LSAT prep. I really wanted to be a lawyer, so I went to Cooley with a 75% scholarship. I graduated number 10 in my class and was a law review editor. I passed bar exams in two states (the first time taking them) and I have been working as a law clerk at the federal level for several years now.

I will give honest answers about the education, the job search, and how it feels to discuss the fact that I went to Cooley with other attorneys.

[SKP82]

I am probably missing something here, but why is this AMA worthy?

[amelie poulain]

There was some discussion in the student loan thread about Cooley grads and the fact that the school is a joke. Tamb brought up the fact that her boss went there and there was some discussion about whether it was awkward to discuss law school topics with him. Cooley is pretty regularly ragged on across the boards here, so I figured some people might be interested in some discussion on that topic.

[amelie poulain]

I don't technically practice, but I am licensed to practice in * and *. Edited for privacy.

[5hole]

I considered it. Back when they started, they use to offer free rides if you scored over 78 or something on the LSATs, which I did. I ended up deciding I just really didn't want to be a lawyer, and am so greatful.

How was the education overall?

[SKP82]

Nov 8, 2013 9:57:12 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

Nov 8, 2013 9:51:55 GMT -5 SKP82 said:

I am probably missing something here, but why is this AMA worthy?

Cooley is widely acknowledged to be among the worst law schools in the country.  And is surrounded by a good deal of controversy.

Thanks!

[sonrisa]

If it is any consolation, the law school most disparaged among people I know isn't Cooley.

[MWOS]

is this like a Caribbean medical school type situation?

[smock]

I don't know if you have anything to compare it to, but did you find it easy?

[janegold]

Okay, tell us about your job search. Are you looking to practice? Were you aware of Cooley's reputation before you went there? (I ask because I know a lot of undergrads aren't; I just had this conversation with my younger sister last week, who is considering taking the LSATs this year.)

[thebreakfastclub]

What is the controversy? Is Nancy Grace the dean?

[MWOS]

Nov 8, 2013 10:01:30 GMT -5 @scottydeux said:

Nov 8, 2013 10:00:18 GMT -5 MWOS said:

is this like a Caribbean medical school type situation?

No, it's a private school in Lansing, MI.

Is it a school where if you can pay the tuition, you can get in, no matter what your undergrad grades and test scores?

[amelie poulain]

Nov 8, 2013 9:57:11 GMT -5 5hole said:

I considered it. Back when they started, they use to offer free rides if you scored over 78 or something on the LSATs, which I did. I ended up deciding I just really didn't want to be a lawyer, and am so greatful.

How was the education overall?

I thought the education was pretty decent, actually. They certainly have no issues with failing a lot of the people the my accept into the program within the first year (probably because they didn't belong in law school to begin with). They collect a lot of money from those that fail out quickly.

I got very good grades with a small amount of effort. I knew that I could have gone somewhere better if I had out the time into the LSAT prep. I do think Cooley prepared me well for passing the bar and I know I got my clerkship based on the strength of my legal writing, so I would say the legal writing classes properly prepared me on that front.

[Deleted]

Nov 8, 2013 10:01:30 GMT -5 @scottydeux said:

Nov 8, 2013 10:00:18 GMT -5 MWOS said:

is this like a Caribbean medical school type situation?

No, it's a private school in Lansing, MI.

With a location now in Tampa.

[sonrisa]

Nov 8, 2013 10:00:18 GMT -5 MWOS said:

is this like a Caribbean medical school type situation?

Caribbean med schools still graduate doctors. Most people who go to bottom ranked law schools do not go on to practice law.

[amelie poulain]

Nov 8, 2013 10:01:13 GMT -5 janegold said:

Okay, tell us about your job search. Are you looking to practice? Were you aware of Cooley's reputation before you went there? (I ask because I know a lot of undergrads aren't; I just had this conversation with my younger sister last week, who is considering taking the LSATs this year.)

My job search was pretty easy, but I was lucky. I got called for three interviews from my first batch of applications - two firms and the clerkship I ended up with.

I was offered a job at law firm one, but it was extremely low pay ($40K) and long work hours. I did not accept that offer. I was at the second interview phase at firm 2, which was better pay and a much better firm. I interviewed for the clerkship and was offered, so I accepted and withdrew from consideration at firm 2.

I may stay in my current position for a long while, but I may start looking for a job at a firm just to see what is available.

My husband had a more difficult time. He basically sprayed job applications out everywhere until something stuck. He worked there for a few years and just recently moved to another firm. I think this will be where he stays indefinitely.

[Deleted]

Nov 8, 2013 10:09:07 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Nov 8, 2013 10:00:18 GMT -5 MWOS said:

is this like a Caribbean medical school type situation?

Caribbean med schools still graduate doctors. Most people who go to bottom ranked law schools do not go on to practice law.

Not true, in my experience.  They may not go on to BIG LAW, but the State, insurance companies and other agencies love to give them a chance at $Beans/year.

[CheshireGrin]

Nov 8, 2013 10:00:18 GMT -5 MWOS said:

is this like a Caribbean medical school type situation?

I don't think lawyers understand this context. I'm going to say yes.

[Deleted]

Are you asked by your school to be in promotional materials?

[amelie poulain]

Nov 8, 2013 10:01:25 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

Are you in a career clerkship position? What type of law do you want to practice after, or do you plan to continue working as a clerk (in that job or elsewhere)?

I really don't know anything first-hand about Cooley or the quality of education there. All I know is that it is the go-to school whenever people are talking or joking about shitty law schools.

I don't necessarily think a Tier 1 school is the best option, depending on what you want to do. I went to a T1 national school, and by the time I graduated, I wished I had gone to a more regional school. I wasn't going to get a firm job, and the regional school had the edge in government positions. I probably have the "best" degree of all my coworkers, but here we are, all at the same job. I probably have the most SL debt too.

eta: I also don't know Florida law as well as they do because I didn't learn it in school.

I am not a career clerk at the moment, but there is an opportunity coming up that may lead to a career position. If that doesn't pan out, I will probably look for a position in the bankruptcy field.

[amelie poulain]

Nov 8, 2013 10:12:35 GMT -5 cville said:

Are you asked by your school to be in promotional materials?

No. I was not very involved while there (other than law review) and I have not been involved at a since graduating. I would like to keep it that way, if possible.

[amelie poulain]

Nov 8, 2013 10:00:44 GMT -5 smock said:

I don't know if you have anything to compare it to, but did you find it easy?

I found it easy for the most part. They are actually pretty tough in grading, which surprised me. I had to work for my high GPA, but in all honesty, I probably good have gotten accepted to a much better school had I applied myself when taking the LSAT.

[amelie poulain]

Nov 8, 2013 10:02:40 GMT -5 MWOS said:

Nov 8, 2013 10:01:30 GMT -5 @scottydeux said:

No, it's a private school in Lansing, MI.

Is it a school where if you can pay the tuition, you can get in, no matter what your undergrad grades and test scores?

They accept a large number of people in every class. You can get very low LSAT scores and still be accepted. They have a seriously high failure rate within the first year/year and a half. That is where they make their money.

[Deleted]

How much student loans do you and your husband have?

[janegold]

Yes, and they have something like five campuses, not all of which are fully accredited. They're basically a money-making machine.

OP, I'm glad it seemed to work out okay for you. I know the same is not true for many of your fellow alumni.

[amelie poulain]

Nov 8, 2013 10:22:39 GMT -5 @amoosed said:

How much student loans do you and your husband have?

I have approximately $150,000. That includes a private undergrad and no parental contributions. I worked three jobs in undergrad, but still came out with a chunk of debt. I only worked one job in law school to defray some of my month to month expenses. Damn interest killed me though.

My husband has about $100,000 total.

We pay approximately $2,300 per month toward student loan payments and are trying to pay them down more quickly.

[amelie poulain]

Nov 8, 2013 10:24:01 GMT -5 janegold said:

Yes, and they have something like five campuses, not all of which are fully accredited. They're basically a money-making machine.

OP, I'm glad it seemed to work out okay for you. I know the same is not true for many of your fellow alumni.

It did work out well for me. Most of my friends I graduated with are doing well, but all graduated at the top of the class. Otherwise, we would not have been so lucky.

[amelie poulain]

Nov 8, 2013 10:29:35 GMT -5 pagas said:

What was your LSAT score?

154

[amelie poulain]

Nov 8, 2013 10:36:23 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

Between this thread and the other thread, I will never complain about my SL debt again.

Yeah, it sucks. Our HHI is $160,000 per year, so it hurts to pay $27,600 per year toward student loans but it is not debilitating. If we ended upon jobs making $40,000 each, we would be in a completely different situation.

As someone who grew up poor and was the first person to go to college in my family, I did not realize how much interest would accrue on my undergrad loans while I was completing law school. I could have been really fucked.

[sonrisa]

Nov 8, 2013 10:11:47 GMT -5 @bigtowlittletoe said:

Nov 8, 2013 10:09:07 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Caribbean med schools still graduate doctors. Most people who go to bottom ranked law schools do not go on to practice law.

Not true, in my experience.  They may not go on to BIG LAW, but the State, insurance companies and other agencies love to give them a chance at $Beans/year.

I'm not saying they aren't employed, I just question if the majority of grads are working full time in jobs that require a JD (not just are mostly staffed by JDs, but actually need a bar admission - they would be in trouble for practicing law without a license if you didn't have one). According to the study below, the bottom half of ABA approved schools in this study can't say that for about half their grads. And only 14 schools can say that about 80%. 

In contrast, the Caribbean med schools MWOS is thinking of confer MDs that are recognized by US residency programs. There are plenty of residency spots in the US that are filled by foreign medical grads. (In some specialties, there are more residency spots than applicants, so you are sure to match if you are flexible enough on placement).

I stand by my initial statement.

www.thefacultylounge.org/2013/03/-full-rankings-bar-admission-required-full-time-long-term.html