Long run training paces. Questions.

[noisemaker2]

What is your philosophy on the pace of your long run? 

When I trained for my first marathon last year, everything I saw said to keep it slow--about a minute or more slower than goal pace.  So I did.  But then I self-destructed in the second half of the race, more stomach trouble than pace trouble, so not sure I truly tested that method.

Since then I've read more and more that you can't expect to come out of the gates at a race running a minute per mile faster than your long run pace.  Which makes sense.  But many still recommend the long, slow, distance run. 

This training cycle my paces are naturally faster.  But I also feel like I'm pushing a bit more.  My 14 miles this weekend was nearly a minute per mile faster than my 15 miler last year.  My heartrate is about the same on long runs this go-round as last year, but my legs are more tired/sore than I remember from last year.  I am running more miles overall, and my plan has a mid-length pace run the day before the long run, which is also new.  So that could contribute to the tired and sore factor.   

Overall I guess I'm worried that I'm going to push too much, or not enough...

Thoughts?  Anecdotes?  Help?

[lb2006]

I always run my training runs about the same pace as race day - except i ALWAYS slow down the last 4ish miles, and i know that. My body is just tired. But besides that, I maintain the same pace as the long runs through mile 21-22ish on race day. I think it really depends on the person

[runaways]

I think it matters how tired your body is. Right now I go about 30 sec/mile slower than race pace, but it's always on tired legs. And every other week I throw in a big chunk of the miles at race pace. So last weekend I did 9 on Saturday and 18 Sunday; 8 of those were at race pace and the remainder were slower. This past weekend I did 9 at race pace on Saturday and 17 on Sunday, all of which were at the slower long run pace.

My disclaimer is that I haven't done it quite like this before so I'll see how it works in January. That said, I think (hope) the pace intervals are going to make a difference.

[mrshandy]

When I was training for my marathon, I usually ran my long runs right around race pace. It's just what my body wanted to do and worked well for me.

[gt7301b]

I usually run my long runs about a minute to a minute and a half slower than my half to 10 mile pace. I’ve only run one marathon, so not a lot of statistical proof here, but my race pace ended up actually being pretty close to long run pace. If I were training for another full I’d run more miles in the middle of my training runs at race pace, but I wouldn’t want to run all my long runs at race pace. If the troubles you had were stomach trouble I wouldn’t attribute that to training at the wrong paces. It sounds like you may just be faster now and hopefully will race faster too.

[gumi]

If you want to incorporate pace work into your long runs, you need to look at more advanced plans.

[clseale]

I tend to run my long runs too fast. I'm doing Pfitz's plan right now, and I'm trying to get better about running the suggested paces. With the exception of the pace miles that are built into long runs, I've been doing my long runs 10%-15% (most often 10%) slower than goal pace. For me, that would be 48-60 sec slower.

ETA: Overall, your long runs should not be your fast runs. You can incorporate some pace miles into your long runs, and you can do pace runs and tempo runs during your shorter weekly runs. Every long run should not be at race pace. 

[ebeth]

I do not believe it is reasonable to think you can just run 60 sec faster per mile if you haven't practiced running 60 sec faster per mile. But that doesn't have to happen on every single long run.

For my last marathon my long runs were 45-60 sec slower per mile than my pace on race day. But I did periodically practice race pace either during long runs or my mid week longish runs

[katinthehat]

the purpose of long runs is to teach your body to run long. the purpose of speed work (intervals, tempo, pace runs, all of those) is to teach your body to go faster. Find the plan that incorporates both and it's fine to keep long runs long and slow because you're overcompensating for that with your speed work which is going to be faster than race pace. But if you're plan has little to no speed work, then you'll need to run your long runs at closer to race pace.

[jamalynn]

I am training for my first full (several HM under my belt). My long runs are about 30-45 seconds slower per mile overall. I think that is pretty good considering no one is cheering me on for those runs. I do have hills and speedwork in my training plan so I will get those runs in too.

[jordylee]

I like to do my long runs maybe 20 sec/mi slower than my goal. A minute per mile seems like a LOT to me, so I would feel really underprepared if I went that much slower on my long runs. It is also WAY hotter when I'm training for a fall race than it is on race day... so the effort is probably the same. Everyone is different, but running faster is the only way for me to run faster. I went from a first marathon in 4:44 to a most recent marathon in 3:32. so it seems to be working for me.

[cinco]

I am consistently about 45 seconds slower than MP in my long training runs. Every 3-4 weeks I do a marathon pace long run, but only for the last 10-12 miles.

[noisemaker2]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! It sounds like everyone has something slightly different that works for them, and I have to just figure out what works for me.

And to clarify, my long runs are still my slowest runs of the week (averaging 10-10:10/mile), while my "pace" runs the day before, which I run what I would call comfortably hard, have been about a minute per mile faster, in the low 9s. My easy runs usually wind up in the 9:40-9:50ish area.

I've tried the McMillan training pace calculator, but it varies drastically based on goal time, which I'm still not sure on...I have a half next month that should help me with that. Hopefully these paces will keep me healthy, but improving until then! Thanks again!