WHY are we lagging so far behind?

[katfco]

I honestly believe it's because of how our culture sees and treats teachers. Teachers are so micromanaged, they're not treated like professionals and given the freedom to actually use their craft. They're so undermined by society, they don't often get the support they need from parents.

There is also a divide between academic research and academic instruction. A lot of innovative research takes forever to hit the schools en masse because qualitative research isn't trusted.

Traditionally, the nature of schooling has been to revert to the basics of rote instruction when learning fails, so a lot of students are not able to be challenged to think critically. This also varies by economic areas. The children of CEOs in Silicone Valley are getting a very different education than the children of factory workers in Alabama.

Also, keep in mind a lot of Asian schools push kids to learn so much in grade school, by the time they hit college they can be incredibly stressed and burnt out. The teen suicide rate is fairly high. I also don't know about all the countries, but I know in China, public schools don't always take everyone. Those with disabilities are more likely to end up in special schools.

[nannerl]

Two things jumped out at me:

"The exam, which has been administered every three years to 15-year-olds, is designed to gauge how students use the material they have learned inside and outside the classroom to solve problems."

If we are being judged on how well our teens can apply the information we are teaching them in the classroom, shouldn't we start refocusing attention on teaching our kids critical thinking and problem solving skills along side (or better yet, instead of) the rote learning of facts needed to pass national and state standardized tests?



"Tom Loveless, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, told the wire service that the educational system in that city is not equitable — and the students tested are progeny of the elite because they are the only ones permitted to attend municipal schools due to restrictions that, among other things, prohibit many migrant children."

This has been a bone of contention for as long as these rankings have been published. The US provides education for all, regardless of background or ability. Some countries aren't so inclusive. I'm not saying that this is an automatic out for the US education system (because lord knows, there are plenty of issues in our system besides who we are educating), but is it really fair to compare the results of two vastly different approaches to education and then use the results to line our hairshirts?

[Deleted]

Some of those countries I wonder if not every kid is actually in high school? Disabled, slower, poorer kids might not be in class.

I do think we have an issue but I would compare our rates to more similar countries like England, Germany, Canada to see what we need to work on.

[kdrake8]

Dec 3, 2013 12:15:37 GMT -5 @lindy said:

Some of those countries I wonder if not every kid is actually in high school? Disabled, slower, poorer kids might not be in class.

I do think we have an issue but I would compare our rates to more similar countries like England, Germany, Canada to see what we need to work on.

Yes. Not all countries educate every child.

[tuck]

It's no secret that the United States are lagging behind in education. Even many of our best students are still behind other countries' average students.

I think a lot of the problem comes from our culture's view of education- we don't give "book learning" the respect it deserves. "Are you smart or something," should not be an insult. I have no idea how to correct that problem, because a lot of it starts at home.

I think another big problem is lawmaker's decisions to throw "innovation" at problems so quickly, often without giving teachers enough training. We're at a point now where many parents can't help their kids with their math homework because they can't figure out what the hell is going on. It seems like kids learn to do addition (for example) one way, then some new innovation comes along and they learn a new way. Then a few years later, a brand new method comes along, and they have to learn an entirely new way. It seems like there's a lot of room for gaps and missing out on key concepts with that.

I also take issue with our grading system- you make an 80% and you pass, but you still don't know 20% of the material. There's no way that's not going to come back and bite you in the ass one day.

[katfco]

Dec 3, 2013 12:53:04 GMT -5 tuck said:

It's no secret that the United States are lagging behind in education. Even many of our best students are still behind other countries' average students.

I think a lot of the problem comes from our culture's view of education- we don't give "book learning" the respect it deserves. "Are you smart or something," should not be an insult. I have no idea how to correct that problem, because a lot of it starts at home.

I think another big problem is lawmaker's decisions to throw "innovation" at problems so quickly, often without giving teachers enough training. We're at a point now where many parents can't help their kids with their math homework because they can't figure out what the hell is going on. It seems like kids learn to do addition (for example) one way, then some new innovation comes along and they learn a new way. Then a few years later, a brand new method comes along, and they have to learn an entirely new way. It seems like there's a lot of room for gaps and missing out on key concepts with that.

I also take issue with our grading system- you make an 80% and you pass, but you still don't know 20% of the material. There's no way that's not going to come back and bite you in the ass one day.

In contrast, people sometimes resist innovation because it's not how they learned it. They have a hard time accepting that there might be a better way of doing it.

However, this phrase of your post is key: "Another big problem is lawmakers."

[Deleted]

I normally take these global comparisons with a pretty big grain of salt because our schooling is so different from many other countries.

That said, it is obvious that America is failing a huge number of its children (often, coincidentally, by NOT failing them.) for me it comes down to a few things.

Teaching is not a respected position.

We don't prioritize rote memorization early so that we can spend more time on critical thinking later.

We don't have any sort of pre-k expectations/ national pre/k education.

We fundamentally and ideologically refuse to have tough conversations with kids, parents, etc about children's abilities, goals, life skills. I don't see that changing anytime soon and I really don't know if it is a bad thing.

[Deleted]

Dec 3, 2013 13:13:26 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

Dec 3, 2013 13:05:18 GMT -5 @thadsrad said:

I really don't know if it is a bad thing.

Why?  I feel the lack of these things is a problem.  When we don't have conversations with our children about studying harder, not winning everything and how crappy life can be, are we not doing them a disservice?

Oh, I agree with those conversations. I guess I was thinking more about conversations about limiting access to college prep/honors classes, steering students into programs that suit their personality/aptitude and whatnot. I'm a big advocate of tracking because I think it treats teens as if they have the about to make choices that affect their lives. But, I recognize that these sorts of "restrictions" on education fly in the face of our national value of choice and opportunity.

[raynes]

Dec 3, 2013 12:15:37 GMT -5 @lindy said:

Some of those countries I wonder if not every kid is actually in high school? Disabled, slower, poorer kids might not be in class.

I do think we have an issue but I would compare our rates to more similar countries like England, Germany, Canada to see what we need to work on.

Because I wondered how Canada fared:

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[Deleted]

@tambcat I hate the culture of fear that education has become and I am a firm believer in play and summer vacation and imagination.

But I think a national pre k would help that vision because it would take some of that pressure off of me as a parent needing to do a bunch of teaching. Plus, kids from lower socioeconomic families would get some of the material they are missing now.

[nannerl]

@tambcat, I hated the thought of year-round school until I ended up teaching in a year-round system. You don't actually add any time to the school calendar (well, maybe 3 or 4 days), so you still get the same amount of time off, it's just spread throughout the year. We started in September, had a week off for fall break at the end of October (usually the week of Halloween!), then back to school and two weeks off at Christmas. We were back from the beginning of January until mid-February, then one week off. A two week spring break happened at the beginning or middle of April (depending on how Easter fell), another one week break at the beginning of June, and then six weeks break from mid-July through the beginning of September.

It totally rocked. You still got a nice summer break, but you also had a week or two off every couple of months. You could enjoy vacations at random times of the year (still plenty of time to relax and play), and then everyone came back ready to re-focus. I had plenty of time to catch up on marking and other paperwork, and then enjoy myself for a few days over the breaks. Having done both systems, I think 10 weeks of summer is too long, and August to Thanksgiving is wayyy too long, for teachers and students alike. Everyone is just exhausted by the end of those long stretches, and I really think both the teaching and the attention span of the students tend to suffer.

[orriskitten]

I have a major problem with education here, which is a major reason why we're choosing to move. It seems that public education, in NY at least, is not going to change because the important people want it (parents, educators and students), but only if the administration wants it. It's frustrating and I feel like there are too many "solutions" being thrown into the mix making the dichotomy of successful students vs. Unsuccessful all that more confusing. Then add overcrowding and schools closing... It is disgusting.

I feel like the goals of education are confusing. What do we want students to accomplish? To graduate? To get good test scores? To learn book smarts (from often outdated, irrelevant text books, based on my experience)? To learn life/world skills? Creative thinking? Logical thinking? Everything and nothing?

I don't know. I feel it does such a disservice to our young people, the way they/we are educated. I spent the better part of 10 years working to try to help change things and feel so helpless to change anything, especially as a young person.

[nannerl]

Aaaaand the Brits weigh in!

newsthump.com/2013/12/03/chinese-students-probably-all-virgins-insist-british-teenagers/