Cutting people out of your life?

[explorer2001]

What threshold would someone have to cross before you cut them out of your life permanently? Assume we are talking about a parent/siblings/long time really close friend - not an acquaintance or loose friend.

If they physically hurt you? If they emotionally hurt you? If they did one of these things and refused to apologize? If they did one of these things repeatedly? If they made you feel like a worthless piece of garbage every time you interacted with them even though you are a good person and have never done anything to hurt them?
If spending time with them had a negative impact on other parts of your life? 

When if ever would you give them another chance? How many chances? What would it take to get back to a "normal" relationship? Is that even possible?

[moolarkey]

If they hurt my children. There might be other reasons but this is what immediately comes to mind.

[Deleted]

I had to cut my best friend out because her relationship choices were abusive and the drama was affecting my life. I miss her tons but immediately felt better.

[lime]

Correct me if I am wrong Explorer, but you had a super shitty holiday season with your fam last year and were considering taking a break, right? 

I've cut out my father and all of his siblings, except for one that I hold at arm's length. I've cut out all of my mom's family, as has she. So, I just have my mom, my sister and my arm's length uncle as "family" and that's it. 


What threshold would someone have to cross before you cut them out of your life permanently?

Well, for my dad it took years (3 decades really) of emotional and sometimes physical abuse. Once you cut one person off and the sky doesn't fall - and you feel better actually - this type of tough decision gets easier. 
So, at this point, I have a zero tolerance policy on abuse. You intentionally hurt me gravely, just once, and I am done. 
(Please don't confuse this with people just being an asshole or unintentional grievances. I'm talking about the big shit.)


If they made you feel like a worthless piece of garbage every time you interacted with them even though you are a good person and have never done anything to hurt them?

Basically, this and all the other text above, is why I cut my dad off. I've really never felt good around him. He was extremely resentful toward me that I was born when he was neither emotionally or financially ready (hint - use a condom asshole) and took it out on me for the duration of my childhood and to a lesser extent, my 20s. 


When if ever would you give them another chance? How many chances? What would it take to get back to a "normal" relationship? Is that even possible?

For me and my dad, no. We are done. I made the decision years ago that even on his deathbed I won't speak to him again.  
I can certainly understand *some* circumstances. There is a lot of substance abuse and dysfunction in my family. So if a family member was willing to go to rehab and counseling, then after a long period of sobriety, I would consider very slowly letting them back in. Not all at once and not in a way that would leave me vulnerable. 

I realize this post sounds terribly harsh and negative, but again I am referring to long term abuse.  

You didn't ask this specifically Explorer, but it is absolutely ok to skip the holidays this year, if you need some breathing room to see how you feel. 

[dbsk8dance]

One was a physical/emotional hurt, the other emotional only.

I never let either back in. Second chances are for people who show true remorse.

Protect yourself.

[explorer2001]

Thanks. I took about 9 months off and then laid down some really reasonable ground rules IMHO. No physically hurting me, no significant emotional or psycological harm, no siding with someone who does either of the other two and trying to guilt me into playing nice. Basically don't be cruel and treat me at least as well as a stranger you met on the street.

Some things happened over Thanksgiving that crossed those lines. It has been having far reaching effects on my health (mentally, emotionally, and physically). In part because of this latest round, I had a breakdown at work this week. Thankfully my bosses and company are amazing and caring and understanding and supportive.

I was basically told I was required to take a vacation before January and the start of tax season. They strongly encouraged me to go see my BFF and avoid my family. I booked flights tonight to OR to go see my BFF.

As much as I hate it I'm coming to the conclusion, I can't afford to give them more chances. After 9 months of being mostly happy to suddenly being a wreck cringing and afraid of the consequences of breathing the wronh

[explorer2001]

The wrong way or heaven forbid actually making a mistake.

I can't live like this and I shouldn't have to. Even if it means losing extended family it might be necessary for self preservation.

[rubytue]

Dec 14, 2013 0:18:10 GMT -5 explorer2001 said:

As much as I hate it I'm coming to the conclusion, I can't afford to give them more chances. After 9 months of being mostly happy to suddenly being a wreck cringing and afraid of the consequences of breathing the wronh

It's too late for me to type much, but this is what it took for me. We had one of those epic fights that would have typically lead to 3-4 month of not speaking. 3 months lead to 6 which lead to 8, which was when I realized that the cloud of depression that hand been hanging over me for 15 years was lifted. 8 months lead to a few years. A card would come in the mail, or the phone number on the caller ID, and I turn into a mess for a week. Just from seeing the return address or a phone number.

10 years later, against my better judgement I agreed to try again. By email only. And mostly bc she claimed she was on her death bed, and I had some trusted family/friends suggesting that I might regret not making amends. Within 6 weeks my body was reacting. That was when I ended up with an idiopathic pseudo tumor. I, my husband, my step-mom, my dad, and my BFF believe that was proof of just how toxic she is.

When your mind and body are telling you the person is that toxic, you need to do what is best for you.

Another thing I often tell myself is I wouldn't stay with a husband who treated me like that, and just bc this person raised me doesn't mean I don't have the same choices.

[rubytue]

Oh, one other thing, I have lost an entire side of my family. I don't like that part, but my health (mental and physical) was more important.

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2013 0:18:10 GMT -5 explorer2001 said:

Thanks. I took about 9 months off and then laid down some really reasonable ground rules IMHO. No physically hurting me, no significant emotional or psycological harm, no siding with someone who does either of the other two and trying to guilt me into playing nice. Basically don't be cruel and treat me at least as well as a stranger you met on the street.

Some things happened over Thanksgiving that crossed those lines. It has been having far reaching effects on my health (mentally, emotionally, and physically). In part because of this latest round, I had a breakdown at work this week. Thankfully my bosses and company are amazing and caring and understanding and supportive.

I was basically told I was required to take a vacation before January and the start of tax season. They strongly encouraged me to go see my BFF and avoid my family. I booked flights tonight to OR to go see my BFF.

As much as I hate it I'm coming to the conclusion, I can't afford to give them more chances. After 9 months of being mostly happy to suddenly being a wreck cringing and afraid of the consequences of breathing the wronh

This would definitely warrant cutting of contact. If being around another person risks your mental health and employment like that, don't be near them.

[Deleted]

I cut my grandma out of my life last Christmas after she picked a fight with my family and said horrible, hateful things to me in front of my child. I also lost my cool completely and said some awful things back to her. I never wanted DD1 to see me being treated that way again, nor did I want her seeing me lose my cool like that (I am normally a very patient person but I don't put up with crap either and I went nuclear after putting up with 20ish years of crap from my grandmother). That was my line. At first I just said I never wanted my DD2 to know or meet my grandmother (I was 16 weeks pregnant at the time) and within a week amended it to cutting her out completely. She died in May and it was a great relief to everyone. It is unfortunate that such a horrible encounter was the last time we saw each other but she reaped what she spent years and years sowing.

Anytime a relationship is defined by one party consistently hurting another without respect, remorse, or understanding I think it is appropriate to cut that person out of your life.

[ECB]

Have you been to counseling? I would recommend that. What sucks- you think family should be the people to treat you the best, and when they don't... it's hard to reconcile AND it's hard to say "I can't have them in my life". We're just trained to feel like we HAVE to keep family in our lives.

You don't. THese people sound horribly cruel and toxic. If they aren't a positive in your life, then you don't need them in your life.

WHile not nearly as extreme, I have cut one friend out of my life. She and her DH were just emotionally hurtful people. Due to their own host of issues, but they said some REALLY hurtful things to us, and to others. It just all got to a point where actually out entire friend group basically "ousted" them. We were all done w/ it. And life has truly been better and more relaxing w/o them in it!

[explorer2001]

Dec 14, 2013 0:49:18 GMT -5 rubytue said:

When your mind and body are telling you the person is that toxic, you need to do what is best for you.

Another thing I often tell myself is I wouldn't stay with a husband who treated me like that, and just bc this person raised me doesn't mean I don't have the same choices.

Thanks. I'm not sure how long the board's memory is but I've already left/divorced and have no contact with my abusive ExH. Interestingly a large part of why that got as bad as it did was the conditioning from how I was raised.

I don't know why it is soooooo much harder with my family. I think it is partly because of all the loaded messages about what family is supposed to be and the fact that they pay into that all the time. Ex. we raised you so you owe us, you can't quit the family, family is supposed to be loving and supportive and the only people who will never abandon you. Well except, they haven't been. They have been there once or twice but never without strings attached and without making it that I owe them because of it. They still consistently will take anyone else's side from the uncle who has hit me; my brother who has physical, emotionally and psychologically hurt me; to my own mother telling me  among many other things that if I had been a better wife my ex wouldn't have been abusive and my father trying to invoke integrity and authority insisting others are right and my side is invalid - although he doesn't actually say those words he just dismisses my thoughts, feelings, safety, history, etc. and supports the other side; be it my brother's desires, my father's innocence because "he didn't mean that" related to past hurts, etc.

Ultimately I know it is going to be hard but I'm running out of options and choices.

[dbsk8dance]

I know people talk about family in "unconditional love" terms. To me, that is bull shit. Love is earned and blood means nothing if mutual respect is not present.

I know it is hard. It takes strength and bravery to stand up and say no. But you deserve better.

You deserve better.

[explorer2001]

Dec 14, 2013 12:58:03 GMT -5 ECB said:

Have you been to counseling? I would recommend that. What sucks- you think family should be the people to treat you the best, and when they don't... it's hard to reconcile AND it's hard to say "I can't have them in my life". We're just trained to feel like we HAVE to keep family in our lives.

You don't. THese people sound horribly cruel and toxic. If they aren't a positive in your life, then you don't need them in your life.

WHile not nearly as extreme, I have cut one friend out of my life. She and her DH were just emotionally hurtful people. Due to their own host of issues, but they said some REALLY hurtful things to us, and to others. It just all got to a point where actually out entire friend group basically "ousted" them. We were all done w/ it. And life has truly been better and more relaxing w/o them in it!

Yes I have been in counselling, started years when trying to fix things with my ExH which at the time I somehow thought were all my fault and I needed to fix it. Thankfully the counselor told me what was going on was wrong, wasn't my fault, etc and helped me get out. I have stayed working on learning and growing and understanding over the years since. There was a lot of damage to try to heal not just from my ExH but from all the bullshit I was raised with that taught me that any bad thing that happened I must have deserved and that other people's comfort and happiness was more important than my safety and well being.

A few months ago my counselor was encouraging me to give my family another chance. The first few events were ok, not warm or anything but not dangerous, hurtful or damaging. So I thought there was some hope and she was encouraged as well.

I haven't been able to get a hold of my counselor since the whole Thanksgiving thing. She was traveling with her family for Hanukkah. I will try to get in touch with her again. In the mean time, I have made plans with friends and am relying on my extended support system. I know I'll be ok in the end. It's just a matter of getting there.

[ECB]

Well, the best of luck!! I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

And - I'll be honest, if your counselor keeps saying "give them another chance", she might not really be the best counselor for you. Not that she hasn't helped, but if in the end, if she keeps putting "But you have to give them a chance!" over YOUR well-being... she may no longer really be the right person to talk to. This does happen! People outgrow counselors.

[rubytue]

I did remember about your XH. After I hit post, but I did. I wondered it was all related.

I'm trying to remember exactly what someone said to me once, it probably won't come out the same: Yes, you should love your family. Blood is thicker than water and all. But the expectations go both ways. As an adult, you do not have to respect and love them just because they are your family, they have to respect and love you, too. The way I look at it, they aren't keeping up the terms of the "family" contract, which makes the contract null and void (I'm sure the lawyers around MM will love that analogy lol).

I struggled for years with the things you are posting about. And I still have a lot of guilt about it. Usually I can get past the guilt, but my mother still can push the button to turn it back on. The last one was sometime last spring, when she sent an email quoting the bible about how god says the children should respect their parents and their days will be long on this earth (I'm sure I butchered that quote). Never mind that I am almost 40, she still uses religion and calls me a child to exercise her power over me. And fuck if it works. Not to make me do what she wants (be her vision of a perfect daughter, and who knows what that is, just it's not me), but it turns me into a blubbering mess for days. But, other than the couple days after I get a card or email, I am so, so much healthier now.

It really is ok. If your mother and father and not being a mother and father, then you do not have to be their daughter. Does that make sense?

The sad part of this is that pretty soon H will be the only family I have left. My father, who I am very close to, has Alzheimer's. I expect my step-mom, while awesome and like a mom should be to me, to slowly disappear after my father passes. And I grew up an only child.

[thejen626]

I completely cut out my biological Dad when I was 22. He was never abusive, just an asshole in general. My life is better without having him in it.

Good luck to you. I hope you can get in touch with your counselor.

[rubytue]

Dec 14, 2013 13:14:51 GMT -5 ECB said:

Well, the best of luck!! I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

And - I'll be honest, if your counselor keeps saying "give them another chance", she might not really be the best counselor for you. Not that she hasn't helped, but if in the end, if she keeps putting "But you have to give them a chance!" over YOUR well-being... she may no longer really be the right person to talk to. This does happen! People outgrow counselors.

100% agree with this. You posted that bit while I was typing.

The absolute best thing I did was end up with a counselor who agreed with cutting off family (based on the things I posted above, she is a mother in name only, not in spirit, therefor you can become the daughter in name only). It was a dumb luck referral from my EAP, but I brain dumped 35 minutes of crap the first session, and she said "ok, let's figure out how to break this cycle and get her out of your life." I cried. I needed that professional option that it was OK.

[explorer2001]

Dec 14, 2013 13:14:51 GMT -5 ECB said:

ECB I get what you're saying. The last update she had from me was after the couple of ok interactions when we were both hopeful and encouraged. She has been very supportive of cutting out the uncle, taking a break from my family to get the perspective I need, limiting contact, holding strong boundaries, etc. I'll see how she responses to this stuff when I get in touch with her. I will definitely keep what you are saying in mind.

Thank you for being supportive. I really do appreciate it. 

[flatlan]

Just want to offer you (((hugs))) and tell you to have fun with your BFF. Stay strong in your commitment to keeping yourself mentally and physically healthy and safe.

[ECB]

Dec 14, 2013 0:18:10 GMT -5 explorer2001 said:

I took about 9 months off and then laid down some really reasonable ground rules IMHO. No physically hurting me, no significant emotional or psycological harm, no siding with someone who does either of the other two and trying to guilt me into playing nice. Basically don't be cruel and treat me at least as well as a stranger you met on the street.

The thing that stood out here to me, and why your counselor's suggestion to "give them a chance" concerns me - when you have to lay down THESE kinds of boundaries - this is more about them than it is you.  Until THEY get help - none of this will change.  You may have a few good interactions here and there, but big picture?  They aren't going to change until THEY want to change.  You setting boundaries isn't going to do this.  It may give you a good interaction or two, but in the end they will always go back to their "old ways".

[mariafromnj]

Parents siblings it would take a lot. It would have to be something so unforgivable like physically harming me, dh or child.

Great friend. When the friend is no longer a healthy relationship with balanced give or take. I walked a way from a friend that married a horrible person. It completely changed her and she no longer was someone I had anything in common with. The only way she would get together would be if I drove to her or went where she wanted and all we did was talk about her. She didn't want me to talk about my DH or my life because she said it made her feel bad that my life turned out so well and hers didn't. I got nothing out of this friendship so I let it fade.

[sweetnsour]

I definitely draw the line at physical abuse! You should never have to lay the kind of ground rules you did for people who love you, family or not. My family is pretty good at emotional abuse. Every time I would visit my family I would come home crying. My DH asked why I would put up with it and allow them to affect me that way. I was able to limit my interaction and I changed the way I reacted to things which helped.

Your situation sounds unacceptable. No one, No one should treat you that way. You don't "owe" them anything. They should have kept you safe and been a soft place to fall when you needed them. They failed miserably. Try to figure out a way to get rid of your guilt for limiting contact with them and surround yourself with family you choose.

[awkwardpenguin]

I'm sorry you are going through this. I absolutely understand the pull of family and how scary the idea of pulling back or cutting them out of your life can be.

I think you are a very strong woman, and that you should trust your instincts and what your mind and body are telling you. It is hard because your family system has taught you not to trust yourself. But at some point it has to become about your needs and what is best for you. You deserve to feel safe and healthy. (((Hugs)))

[pinkdutchtulips]

I had to cut stbxh out of not only my life but DD's as well. It breaks my heart that I had to do this but drug abuse minus any desire for rehab bc after all "I can quit any time ....." doesn't fly w me.