Mr. Money on MarketWatch!

[Deleted]

My hero Mr. Money was featured on Marketwatch today!   <)

Surprise, surprise I loved the article...I think what may dismiss about Mr. Money is that he has inspired many (me, too!) to change our perspective on consuming "stuff" - which creates an immense amount of freedom.  I am glad that his perspective is getting out there, because it is so different than what is typically presented in the media (about spending, retirement, saving, and keeping clean )

www.marketwatch.com/story/how-to-retire-early-35-years-early-2014-01-17

How to retire early — 35 years early

Blogger who retired at 30 says it’s time to rethink spending

For many Americans, the idea of an early retirement is pure fantasy — many surveys suggest that a good portion of us are convinced we’ll never be able to retire at all. But what if retirement saving isn’t quite as insurmountable an obstacle as you think?



The idea that retirement — even early retirement — is within anyone’s grasp is a big part of the appeal of a popular personal-finance blog called “Mr. Money Mustache,” written by a 39-year-old man named Pete, who lives with his wife and 8-year-old son in Longmont, Colo. (The blog recently had 417,000 monthly unique visitors, and has had a total of 4 million unique visitors since it launched in April 2011.)



Pete, who prefers not to divulge his last name to protect his family’s privacy, retired when he was just 30. His wife retired with him and for the past nine years, they’ve been stay-at-home parents. Their investment income supports their lifestyle, but they also work when they want, on their own terms.

One secret to their success? They live on very little: About $25,000 a year for a family of three. They own a car, but mostly bike. Dining out is an occasional luxury. And shopping for stuff? That’s best avoided. But their philosophy goes beyond just scrimping, says Mr. Money Mustache. It’s about enjoying life with less.



MarketWatch asked Mr. Money Mustache about his philosophy on spending, how he retired early, and his take on retirement planning. Our Q&A is below. And, if you’re wondering about the name?



“Mr. Money Mustache is meant to be a bit of a character — a financial superhero,” Pete said. “He’s me, but a slightly bossier and more opinionated version of me. I find that people gladly obey the commandments of Mr. Money Mustache, even while they would scoff if plain old Pete, the former software engineer, stepped up and started giving them advice.”



How old were you when you decided to try to retire early, and how long did it take you to get to the point where you could retire?

It was a gradual process. I brought some frugal instincts along with me from childhood so I always tended to save a bit of money rather than spending it all. My wife has been a pretty reasonable spender since the time we met as well. So I graduated from college in 1997, we eventually moved in together, and after several years of full-time work, some cash was starting to build up in our investment accounts and we wondered if there was something useful we could do with it.



Sometime around 2002, we decided we wanted to be parents eventually, and that it would be great if we could retire from our relatively demanding careers in the tech industry before any babies came along. This really increased our motivation to spend less and invest more, and we cranked things up. At the end of 2005, our savings were sufficient to generate passive income that we could theoretically live off forever, so we quit the regular jobs and have been winging it ever since. And we now have an amazing 8-year-old-boy.



How did you decide how much money was enough to retire?



Based on a long-lasting hobby of reading books on stock investing, I realized that you can generally count on your nest egg to deliver a 4% return over most of a lifetime, with a good chance of it never running out. In other words, you need about 25 times your annual spending to retire. So we tracked our spending and our net worth, and when we hit the magic number, we declared ourselves “retired.”



(For more on Mr. Money Mustache’s take on the 4% rule here, read this blog post.)



Did you have a written retirement plan in place early on, or more of a ballpark figure you were trying to save up?



We did most of the saving before we knew all that much about early retirement. But once the picture became a bit clearer, we had a clearer goal. For the last few years, the mantra was “$600,000 in investments, plus a paid-off house.” This is enough to generate $24,000 of spending money, which goes quite far if you have no rent or mortgage to pay.



How important is it for people to have a written retirement plan, in your opinion?



It doesn’t matter to me if it’s written, verbal, or mental. But I do encourage people to open their minds to how real and possible an early retirement can be. It isn’t a vague, fluffy concept like, “someday,” “never” or “when I’m 65.” Retirement (or financial independence) simply means that you have your living expenses covered by nonwork income. In the worst case, this requires 25 to 30 times your annual spending, socked away into investments. If you’re eligible for a pension or Social Security, it’s even easier.



For more on how Mr. Money Mustache invests (hint: he’s a fan of low-cost, broad-based stock index funds), read this blog post.



Do you work with a financial planner or manage your finances on your own?



I have always enjoyed managing my own finances. On the blog, I maintain a good-natured battle with the financial planning industry in general, because they focus too much on retiring at a very old age with many millions in savings — just so you can continue to spend $100,000 a year until you die. It is much more efficient to get a handle on your materialism and spending so you can live more happily on a fraction of that amount, which can shave 20 years or more from the time you need to keep commuting in to that office.



How crucial is it, in your opinion, for people to have a monthly or annual spending plan or budget?



This really depends on your personality type. I’ve never had a spending plan or a budget at any point in my own life. Instead, it was a simple set of values to apply just before I make any purchase or commit to any expense: “Is this the best possible use for this chunk of money, if my goal is creating lifelong happiness for myself?”



Since I valued freedom and financial strength, this automatically ruled out quite a few purchases. For example, as a young man I was a major car enthusiast. But I didn’t run out to borrow money to buy an Acura NSX, because I valued having that money for other things more than I valued a fancy car. Nowadays I can finally afford a car like that without even borrowing, but I am happy to discover that the desire has disappeared.



See this Mr. Money Mustache article for details on the family’s spending in 2013



Some people might think so much cost-cutting is akin to living like Scrooge and not having any fun. How would you respond to that?



If you tell yourself that is how it will be, then you will create your own truth and life will not be fun. But if you understand the fundamentals of what it means to be a happy person, you realize that buying more stuff for yourself has no relationship at all to how happy you are. These fundamentals include things like close relationships with other people, health, rewarding work, a chance to be creative and help others.



Work on those things and you’ll start living a much better life immediately, and soon wonder where the odd compulsion to own a yacht with a submarine came from in your old self.



Surveys suggest there are a lot of people out there who are worried about retiring, who don’t have enough money saved, who feel like they may never retire. Can you offer people in that situation any words of advice in terms of how to turn their situation around?



The quickest way to turn things around is to realize that you are in much more control than you realize. The time to reach retirement depends on only one thing: your savings rate as a percentage of your take-home pay. And this depends entirely on how much you spend. So the moment you can learn to live a less expensive life, suddenly the clouds clear up and the financial picture brightens considerably.



Read Mr. Money Mustache’s 5 most important strategies for planning an early retirement.

What would you say to someone in his 50s or 60s who maybe doesn’t have any credit-card debt, but is paying a mortgage and has about $100,000 saved for retirement? Is there any scenario where that person would be able to retire in, say, his early 60s?



That’s not a great starting point, but the turnaround can be incredibly fast once you realize where your money has been leaking out, and change your life so that you can save much more of your income. Ten to 15 years is plenty of time for most people to go from zero to financial independence, so with a $100,000 head start and the kids all out of the house, this 55-year-old might be in a good place. Adding in Social Security income, the time to retirement would be even faster.



Do you think that the rule of thumb of needing about 85% of pre-retirement income in retirement is accurate, useful, dangerous, innocuous?



This is a good guideline for people who currently spend almost everything they earn, and plan to continue that habit in retirement. But for the rest of us, it is ridiculous!



A much more useful idea is to separate the idea of income from that of spending. Your income is determined by what you do for a living. But your spending should be decided based on your needs — the things and experiences that truly make you happy. As an example, my family’s needs and wants have always ended up adding to about $25,000 a year. So that’s how much we spent, whether we were making $25,000 or $200,000.



So as soon as our retirement income safely exceeded $25,000 a year, we were financially independent and we decided to retire.



I hate to get morbid, but the idea of how long one is going to live is sort of a crucial piece to a retirement plan. How are you handling this impossible-to-answer-yet-essential question? Are annuities and/or long-term-care insurance part of your long-term financial plan?



If you plan your retirement right, your expected longevity might actually have nothing to do with your planning. This is because the amount of money required to fund a 30-year retirement is almost identical to the amount to fund a person forever — an odd behavior of the equation for amortization of a large sum of money.



I’m not into annuities or any type of insurance myself, although those products do have value for some. Both of those ideas are based on statistics and probabilities, and when you do the math you can actually be safer handling things yourself. With a big enough collection of income-producing assets (stocks, rental property, etc.), your savings will easily outlive you, and probably be much larger by the time you die. This big chunk of savings also allows you to pay for unexpected expenses without rocking the boat too much — you have many years to adjust if you do hit a bump that forces you to deplete part of it for something like a medical expense.



You have said in the past that it’s important to “make your dollars work for you.” Does that mean the idea of an emergency savings account at the bank is overrated? Should people be investing more of their savings in the financial markets, via a taxable account, rather than using bank accounts?



Yeah, I’ve always questioned the idea of an emergency fund. It’s a great tool for the financial beginner who lives from paycheck to paycheck, and for whom a broken water heater would make the difference between making ends meet and borrowing via a credit card. But once you get off the ground, your credit card is a monthly buffer and your investment accounts are the emergency fund.



So I have no savings account at all, and keep just a few thousand dollars in the checking account. If a huge unexpected expense ever came up that was greater than my income, I would put it on the credit card along with all other monthly spending. Then just sell some shares of an index fund and transfer that back to the bank before the credit-card automatic payment happened at the end of the month. And I’ve still never had to run a credit-card balance in my life.



The great part is that if your spending is much lower than your income, these emergencies become very rare, because there is always a surplus which you have to sweep away into investments each month. So if the water heater dies, you buy a new one and just invest a little bit less that month.



To what degree would you say rental income was key to your ability to retire early?



A small degree — I haven’t had the most brilliant landlord career so far, so my results have been only average. But rental properties chosen wisely can return much more than stocks, which could really speed up a savvy person’s retirement program. In my own case, I probably saved only about one year of work by using rental houses along with stocks.



Would you say it’s better to use extra savings to pay down one’s mortgage, or to invest in the financial markets?



For people in a high tax bracket, 401(k) plans in low-fee index funds win this battle pretty easily, especially if there is an employer match. For investment in taxable non-retirement accounts, it all depends on the interest rate (and if you’re pretty well-versed in investing, the stock market’s valuation or P/E 10 ratio).



Right now, with stocks expensive and interest rates very low, it’s probably a somewhat uninspiring tie in my opinion and you could do either. But if mortgage interest rates were 6% or more, I’d start getting more excited about paying off a house.



For people with other debts, like student loans, car loans, or credit-card debt at higher rates, I’d prioritize debt payoff even more.



It sounds as though a lot of your success has to do with cutting costs. But I know that some of my readers are really tired of hearing the “cut out the lattes” idea. What would you say to those readers?



For most people, cutting costs is by far the most powerful way to increase wealth. This is because it is easy to burn off almost any amount of money — just ask the 78% of NFL players that have financial problems shortly after turning off the cash fire hose of a pro-sports career. It is also possible to cut almost any budget in half, leaving the happy latte-cutter saving 50% or more of her income.



But the key to making this work is not cutting out treats — it’s eliminating your desire for those treats in the first place. Driving my 2005 Scion hatchback would be a chore if I had a desire for a 2014 BMW. But since this little Scion is more than enough car for all of my wants (and I usually ride a bike anyway), I am actually winning and living a happier life even while saving $20,000 a year in depreciation and other costs. The handy part of all this is that anyone can eliminate the desire for any of the expensive luxuries currently dominating most of our spending.



Do you have any sorts of items you love to buy and won’t give up?



That’s a tricky question, because our lifestyle does include quite a few luxuries that are fun to have around. I enjoy nice coffee at breakfast and wine many nights at dinner, and the food we eat is very high-end these days. And we live in a pretty fancy house full of nice stuff and take a lot of trips. While I enjoy all of these things, I also make fun of myself for living such a decadent lifestyle, as a reminder that none of these things are essential components of happiness. I would give them up in a heartbeat if we couldn’t afford them — for example if we were in debt or if they compromised our ability to live a free life. But since life is an adventure and there is no need to seek perfection, we dabble in all of the normal treats of American life.



You write a lot about doing things oneself — including being your own handyman. What would you say to people who feel they aren’t good at fixing things and aren’t confident enough to work on their own homes? Is home maintenance going to be a budget killer for them?



You get better at what you do. I think that every homeowner, with possible exceptions for very busy CEOs and rock stars, should be able to take care of a house and can easily learn how to do it. Outsourcing these basic chores is expensive and fussy — it often takes more time to find and supervise a contractor than it takes to do the job yourself.



The key is starting with the assumption that everything is easy, because it is. Then you just grab a book from the library and watch a few YouTube videos on the topic, and dive in. You can also attend the free workshops at Home Depot and ask for help from the handy people within your network of friends. People generally love to help others, and I spend a lot of my own free time giving free home-renovation advice and help to my own friends when they ask for it.



When it comes to spending, what about travel to foreign lands? A no-no because of the steep expense?



Travel can be as expensive or as inexpensive as you choose to make it. We do quite a bit of it these days, spending every summer in Canada and a good part of last winter in Hawaii, with other trips to quite a few other countries in recent years as well. But if you live like a local once you get there, going for the slow and authentic experience rather than flashy hotels and bungee jumping every day, it costs a lot less. One of my favorite trips was a winter driving trip from Colorado down to the Gulf Coast, where we brought along a tent and a kayak and hung out on as many beaches and waterways as we could find in the tropical belt of Texas for a month.



Why did you start your blog?



It was a 50/50 mix of inspiration and exasperation. My wife and I retired from real work at the end of 2005, but all of our friends and peers kept working around us. As their careers blossomed and earnings grew, I kept hearing these complaints about money being tight and retirement being an impossibility. But looking at their lifestyles, I could see exactly where the money was leaking out unproductively — even while they seemed to be missing it. So I decided to start the blog and share the ideas with the world, rather than annoying friends with unrequested financial advice.

[changedname]

Thanks, that was interesting.

[2doxies]

I agree with you - my big takeaway from MMM is a mental shift in how I think about stuff and how we become beholden to it, not that showering twice a week will make me financially independent. I'm getting my DH on board with it and we're trying to set a good example for our kids. It's hard breaking habits that were 30 years in the making, but we're making progress.

So, thanks for introducing me to MMM! Lurking on this board has helped our family financially in a lot of ways

[lasagnasshole]

I guess the reason that I find him to come across as a smug asshole is that I already largely shared his view of stuff (though not on dining out). It's not really much of a choice when you're 25, with a job whose salary is 1/3 of your student loan debt.

I don't know what he did before age 30, but he obviously did something that paid pretty heftily to be able to make those levels of investments. Most people don't have those circumstances.

There's just a Smuggy McDickface quality to this guy that grates.

Remind me to never open a post about him again.

[kadams767]

Jan 17, 2014 9:56:46 GMT -5 lasagnasshole said:

I guess the reason that I find him to come across as a smug asshole is that I already largely shared his view of stuff (though not on dining out). It's not really much of a choice when you're 25, with a job whose salary is 1/3 of your student loan debt.

I don't know what he did before age 30, but he obviously did something that paid pretty heftily to be able to make those levels of investments. Most people don't have those circumstances.

There's just a Smuggy McDickface quality to this guy that grates.

Remind me to never open a post about him again.

I mostly agree with this.  His complete unwillingness to acknowledge that actual retirement at 30 is not a possibility for a majority of people drives me freaking nuts.  Of course, his refusal to acknowledge that what he did isn't actually retirement is a whole other ball of wax.

I am not a huge consumer, I don't buy a lot of "stuff" just for the sake of stuff, and I save as much of my income as possible.  But it's kind of a moot point since this will NEVER get me to retire at 30.  Literally, since that is now mathematically impossible.  But it's not going to get me to retire at 40 either.  And DH and I do pretty darn OK for ourselves.  I can only imagine how bad people feel about themselves listening to this dude preach and act like Smuggy McSmuggerson knowing they can only afford to save $10k a year for retirement.

[kadams767]

Also, OMG, they are not "living on $25k per year". They might be SPENDING $25k per year, but that is not living on $25k per year when you rake in a whole bunch more and save it all to spend in subsequent years.

[shortstax]

I enjoy these posts so much. Half for the content, half to see what lasagnasshole will post

He seems to work the interview circuit like a madman. Therefore, I do not believe he's "retired" at all. Career change with more freedom? Yep. Retired? Hell to the no.

[lasagnasshole]

Jan 17, 2014 10:21:40 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Jan 17, 2014 9:56:46 GMT -5 lasagnasshole said:

I guess the reason that I find him to come across as a smug asshole is that I already largely shared his view of stuff (though not on dining out). It's not really much of a choice when you're 25, with a job whose salary is 1/3 of your student loan debt.

I don't know what he did before age 30, but he obviously did something that paid pretty heftily to be able to make those levels of investments. Most people don't have those circumstances.

There's just a Smuggy McDickface quality to this guy that grates.

Remind me to never open a post about him again.

I mostly agree with this.  His complete unwillingness to acknowledge that actual retirement at 30 is not a possibility for a majority of people drives me freaking nuts.  Of course, his refusal to acknowledge that what he did isn't actually retirement is a whole other ball of wax.

I am not a huge consumer, I don't buy a lot of "stuff" just for the sake of stuff, and I save as much of my income as possible.  But it's kind of a moot point since this will NEVER get me to retire at 30.  Literally, since that is now mathematically impossible.  But it's not going to get me to retire at 40 either.  And DH and I do pretty darn OK for ourselves.  I can only imagine how bad people feel about themselves listening to this dude preach and act like Smuggy McSmuggerson knowing they can only afford to save $10k a year for retirement.

Yeah, it seems that, at least at this point, he's a self-employed entrepreneur, essentially a less-well-know DR or SO, making money from his financial advice. Owning your own business is not the same as being retired.

Also, a lot of people do like their jobs and don't want to retire at 30 or 40. I think he'd come off as less of a Smuggy McDickface if he didn't always make it sound like working until 65 is a death sentence. 

[Deleted]

My take is that there are plenty of folks that don't share his view, and it is refreshing to hear an optimistic, can-do take....but it is fascinating that his style can come off as so irritating to some. Different strokes!

[ssmjlm]

You're not truly retired IMO if you're still actively generating income. Sure retirees have incomes, but it's passive.

I mean if people are going to drink his crazy, more power, but he's not retired if he's still working in some capacity.

[kadams767]

Jan 17, 2014 10:28:12 GMT -5 lasagnasshole said:

Jan 17, 2014 10:21:40 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

I mostly agree with this.  His complete unwillingness to acknowledge that actual retirement at 30 is not a possibility for a majority of people drives me freaking nuts.  Of course, his refusal to acknowledge that what he did isn't actually retirement is a whole other ball of wax.

I am not a huge consumer, I don't buy a lot of "stuff" just for the sake of stuff, and I save as much of my income as possible.  But it's kind of a moot point since this will NEVER get me to retire at 30.  Literally, since that is now mathematically impossible.  But it's not going to get me to retire at 40 either.  And DH and I do pretty darn OK for ourselves.  I can only imagine how bad people feel about themselves listening to this dude preach and act like Smuggy McSmuggerson knowing they can only afford to save $10k a year for retirement.

Yeah, it seems that, at least at this point, he's a self-employed entrepreneur, essentially a less-well-know DR or SO, making money from his financial advice. Owning your own business is not the same as being retired.

Also, a lot of people do like their jobs and don't want to retire at 30 or 40. I think he'd come off as less of a Smuggy McDickface if he didn't always make it sound like working until 65 is a death sentence. 

I don't know, I mean, let's face it, most of us don't really want to work until 65.  At least, not a traditional full-time job.  I think it's great that he achieved that flexibility.  But all the stuff he is doing, it's still working.  It's just a different job.  I wish he would just own that.  But calling his lifestyle "early retirement" is what sells, I guess.  No one is going to care about his secrets if he labels them "how to quit your 9-5 and own your own business."

[Deleted]

Oh, Mr. Money Mustdouche, no.

[kadams767]

Jan 17, 2014 10:31:25 GMT -5 @shoegal said:

My take is that there are plenty of folks that don't share his view, and it is refreshing to hear an optimistic, can-do take....but it is fascinating that his style can come off as so irritating to some. Different strokes!

FTR, @shoegal, you are about 3000x less smug and annoying than this dude.  And you are honest about your intentions to consult or do other work, like starting your non-profit. 

[shortstax]

And, I do find him inspiring. Realistically, anything that gets me thinking about ways to make changes now that will benefit my future is a "win" in my book--even if I choose not to go as "extreme."

[phunluvin82]

I kind of love him and may sort of want to trade my husband in for a Mr. Money Mustache.   :-#

[lasagnasshole]

Jan 17, 2014 10:47:14 GMT -5 phunluvin82 said:

I kind of love him and may sort of want to trade my husband in for a Mr. Money Mustache.   :-#

You like smelly dudes? I would never have guessed. 

[lya]

Jan 17, 2014 10:36:36 GMT -5 shortstax said:

And, I do find him inspiring. Realistically, anything that gets me thinking about ways to make changes now that will benefit my future is a "win" in my book--even if I choose not to go as "extreme."

Exactly, this is how I look at it.

I also don't take issue with his use of the term retirement either.  From what I can tell, he acknowledges that he and his wife work when they want and on their own terms.   From my view, the whole point is that they don't have to work if they don't want to.  Maybe the term "financially independent" is more appropriate than "early retirement" but the concept is still the same.

[Deleted]

Jan 17, 2014 10:48:10 GMT -5 lasagnasshole said:

Jan 17, 2014 10:47:14 GMT -5 phunluvin82 said:

I kind of love him and may sort of want to trade my husband in for a Mr. Money Mustache.   :-#

You like smelly dudes? I would never have guessed. 

OMG thank God I just finished my coffee or else I'd have it all over my screen and keyboard.

[phunluvin82]

Jan 17, 2014 10:27:53 GMT -5 shortstax said:

I enjoy these posts so much. Half for the content, half to see what lasagnasshole will post

He seems to work the interview circuit like a madman. Therefore, I do not believe he's "retired" at all. Career change with more freedom? Yep. Retired? Hell to the no.

This is why I wish he would ditch the 'early retirement' schtick altogether and refer solely to the idea of 'financial independence'.  He never has to work another day in his life if he doesn't want to.  But he does still work, and that really distracts people from the core of his message I think.

I tried talking to my H about his ideas and he was like *yawn*.  When I switched it up and starting talking about 'financial independence' and, better yet, 'fuck you money' (when you have enough money to say 'fuck you' to your job or boss at any point)...suddenly he perked up.

I think MMM is doing himself a disservice using the word 'retirement' at all because people have such set ideas of what that is/means.

[phunluvin82]

Jan 17, 2014 10:48:10 GMT -5 lasagnasshole said:

Jan 17, 2014 10:47:14 GMT -5 phunluvin82 said:

I kind of love him and may sort of want to trade my husband in for a Mr. Money Mustache.   :-#

You like smelly dudes? I would never have guessed. 

Lol...well, I did spend most of my late teens/early twenties following jambands and hanging around with fellow dirty hippies. Old habits die hard?

[gt7301b]

Jan 17, 2014 10:28:12 GMT -5 lasagnasshole said:

Jan 17, 2014 10:21:40 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

I mostly agree with this.  His complete unwillingness to acknowledge that actual retirement at 30 is not a possibility for a majority of people drives me freaking nuts.  Of course, his refusal to acknowledge that what he did isn't actually retirement is a whole other ball of wax.

I am not a huge consumer, I don't buy a lot of "stuff" just for the sake of stuff, and I save as much of my income as possible.  But it's kind of a moot point since this will NEVER get me to retire at 30.  Literally, since that is now mathematically impossible.  But it's not going to get me to retire at 40 either.  And DH and I do pretty darn OK for ourselves.  I can only imagine how bad people feel about themselves listening to this dude preach and act like Smuggy McSmuggerson knowing they can only afford to save $10k a year for retirement.

Yeah, it seems that, at least at this point, he's a self-employed entrepreneur, essentially a less-well-know DR or SO, making money from his financial advice. Owning your own business is not the same as being retired.

Also, a lot of people do like their jobs and don't want to retire at 30 or 40. I think he'd come off as less of a Smuggy McDickface if he didn't always make it sound like working until 65 is a death sentence. 

I'd like him a lot more if he didn't refer to himself as retired.  Sure he doesn't have a 9-5 job, but I bet he spends more time promoting himself and working on his blog than I spend at my 9-5 job.  His idea of "retirement" is way different than I see my retirement.  I'd also rather go sit at my nice comfy desk and drink my Starbucks coffee while someone cleans my home than spend the day at home cleaning.  I don't want to retire on $25,000 a year.

[kadams767]

Jan 17, 2014 10:49:50 GMT -5 lya said:

Jan 17, 2014 10:36:36 GMT -5 shortstax said:

And, I do find him inspiring. Realistically, anything that gets me thinking about ways to make changes now that will benefit my future is a "win" in my book--even if I choose not to go as "extreme."

Exactly, this is how I look at it.

I also don't take issue with his use of the term retirement either.  From what I can tell, he acknowledges that he and his wife work when they want and on their own terms.   From my view, the whole point is that they don't have to work if they don't want to.  Maybe the term "financially independent" is more appropriate than "early retirement" but the concept is still the same.

I actually take issue with the idea that the concept is still the same.  If he wants to promote his early retirement schtick, I'd like to see him actually follow it and see what happens.  If he just took his original $800k retirement account or whatever number he chose and claims he could live on that and only that, which is exactly the claim he is trying to sell to the masses, and never made another penny aside from the interest/dividends on that cash, I'd like to see it.  It's just ridiculous to tell people (and make gobs of profits off the idea, at that) that you only need $800k and you can retire, but then continue to add millions to your original $800k all while still making the same claim.  Of course he doesn't have to work unless he wants to, he's loaded.  If he followed his own words of wisdom, I am willing to be that come hell or high water, he wouldn't be eating his organic dinners every night.

[Deleted]

Jan 17, 2014 10:23:35 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Also, OMG, they are not "living on $25k per year". They might be SPENDING $25k per year, but that is not living on $25k per year when you rake in a whole bunch more and save it all to spend in subsequent years.

This is a BIG complaint of mine about him. He is putting money into savings for future costs like a new (used) car one day. He acts like, well my car is paid off so it's not something I'm paying for now, hence, no car buying expenses. No, it's not something you paid for this year. But one day, in a future year, you'll need to buy a new one, and that money has to come from somewhere. The car is just an example; there are lots of things like that that he already owns, so he doesn't need to spend money on them. 

[gt7301b]

Jan 17, 2014 10:51:55 GMT -5 @mrsspunky said:

Jan 17, 2014 10:48:10 GMT -5 lasagnasshole said:

You like smelly dudes? I would never have guessed. 

OMG thank God I just finished my coffee or else I'd have it all over my screen and keyboard.

I hope you grew those beans yourself, cause otherwise you are NEVER retiring  

[Deleted]

Did anyone read that they only do one load of laundry every week or two? He said he wears his work pants up to 10 times and showers every 2-3 days. I also understand he does Crossfit, so I'm wondering how one showers every 2-3 days and manages to not smell like complete ass after working out.

[Deleted]

Jan 17, 2014 11:05:21 GMT -5 gt7301b said:

Jan 17, 2014 10:51:55 GMT -5 @mrsspunky said:

OMG thank God I just finished my coffee or else I'd have it all over my screen and keyboard.

I hope you grew those beans yourself, cause otherwise you are NEVER retiring  

My work pays for my coffee

LOLOLOL

[kadams767]

Jan 17, 2014 11:06:03 GMT -5 papiercherri said:

Did anyone read that they only do one load of laundry every week or two? He said he wears his work pants up to 10 times and showers every 2-3 days. I also understand he does Crossfit, so I'm wondering how one showers every 2-3 days and manages to not smell like complete ass after working out.

I'd be willing to bet he showers at the gym (or box, whatever) after Crossfit and just doesn't count it since it's not at his house and he isn't paying for the water.  Kind of the same concept of how he's "retired".  :-)  Words don't really have the same meanings in his mind as in mine. 

[lya]

Jan 17, 2014 11:04:18 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Jan 17, 2014 10:49:50 GMT -5 lya said:

Exactly, this is how I look at it.

I also don't take issue with his use of the term retirement either.  From what I can tell, he acknowledges that he and his wife work when they want and on their own terms.   From my view, the whole point is that they don't have to work if they don't want to.  Maybe the term "financially independent" is more appropriate than "early retirement" but the concept is still the same.

I actually take issue with the idea that the concept is still the same.  If he wants to promote his early retirement schtick, I'd like to see him actually follow it and see what happens.  If he just took his original $800k retirement account or whatever number he chose and claims he could live on that and only that, which is exactly the claim he is trying to sell to the masses, and never made another penny aside from the interest/dividends on that cash, I'd like to see it.  It's just ridiculous to tell people (and make gobs of profits off the idea, at that) that you only need $800k and you can retire, but then continue to add millions to your original $800k all while still making the same claim.  Of course he doesn't have to work unless he wants to, he's loaded.  If he followed his own words of wisdom, I am willing to be that come hell or high water, he wouldn't be eating his organic dinners every night.

I actually agree with you.  I think I didn't phrase that well.  I didn't mean to say that financial independence and retirement are defined as the same.  I meant to say that, whether you call MMM's situation financial independence or retirement, it is still the same situation.  For me, if I look past this and just call it financial independence in my mind, I can be inspired to consider new ideas.  If he stopped using the term early retirement I think he would greatly improve his message, but I don't think that should necessarily prevent people from considering what he has to say altogether.

[gogreengowhite]

I wanted to like him, I did.

And then I read his blog.

He said that every time you turn on your car you are an asshole.

Um, thanks and you are a Smuggy McDickface (thanks again lasagnasshole)

He's just so damn high and mighty it's annoying.

[phunluvin82]

Jan 17, 2014 11:13:00 GMT -5 lya said:

Jan 17, 2014 11:04:18 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

I actually take issue with the idea that the concept is still the same.  If he wants to promote his early retirement schtick, I'd like to see him actually follow it and see what happens.  If he just took his original $800k retirement account or whatever number he chose and claims he could live on that and only that, which is exactly the claim he is trying to sell to the masses, and never made another penny aside from the interest/dividends on that cash, I'd like to see it.  It's just ridiculous to tell people (and make gobs of profits off the idea, at that) that you only need $800k and you can retire, but then continue to add millions to your original $800k all while still making the same claim.  Of course he doesn't have to work unless he wants to, he's loaded.  If he followed his own words of wisdom, I am willing to be that come hell or high water, he wouldn't be eating his organic dinners every night.

I actually agree with you.  I think I didn't phrase that well.  I didn't mean to say that financial independence and retirement are defined as the same.  I meant to say that, whether you call MMM's situation financial independence or retirement, it is still the same situation.  For me, if I look past this and just call it financial independence in my mind, I can be inspired to consider new ideas.  If he stopped using the term early retirement I think he would greatly improve his message, but I don't think that should necessarily prevent people from considering what he has to say altogether.

ITA