Help me phrase this

[dexteroni]

Jul 6, 2012 9:37:10 GMT -5 BirdGirl said:

I'm surprised that people think this should be an employer expense. I guess given the circumstances that it makes sense. But our nanny drives her own car, as do many other nannies in our neighborhood. We pay her mileage.

I don't think it should normally be an employer expense, but as you said, in this case, it makes sense. She was hired without needing a car, and telling her to hurry up and buy one will most likely result in either ijack's kids riding in a potentially unreliable beater, or no longer having her nanny. So providing her with a car is a win-win - nanny gets to stay, and kids get to ride in a car ijack trusts.

[vanillacourage]

I believe you that this isn't about her pregnancy. But, you could have a hard time proving it given the unfortunate timing, which is why I suggested planning your strategy with an attorney if possible.

If it used to be no problem for her to take your kids out by bike and now she can't, that's where I'd start the conversation. I get that she tires more easily now, but it's not reasonable (to use legal language) that your kids should be stuck inside all summer because of it. Ultimately though I think that you providing your own car, even if it's for a pre-set period of time (until she comes back from leave maybe?) before transitioning to requiring her to provide transportation for the kids is the way to go.

[cjeanette]

Jul 6, 2012 9:48:30 GMT -5 ijack said:

I was kind of surprised too, when I was a nanny I supplied my own car. BUT it does make sense that I can't expect her to just produce a car out of thin air. We definitely won't be buying her a car.

Not buy her one, but it is not umcommon around here to have a third car that is for the use of the nanny.

[lys]

Providing a car for your nanny to use, whom ever that may be. at any time, is the best way to go IMO. Otherwise you limit your choise of a nanny by ownership and standard of vehicle. There are better criteria by which to hire a nanny.

[lys]

Oh, wow - sorry about all the mistakes - my fingers won't type today.

[DefenseAgainstTheDarkArts22]

I just wanted to point out that Pregnancy Discrimination only comes into play when an employer has 15 or more employees.

www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/pregnancy.cfm

[dexteroni]

Jul 6, 2012 9:48:30 GMT -5 ijack said:

We definitely won't be buying her a car.

No one said to buy her a car. Everyone who mentioned this idea phrased it as having a third car that she can use. When she leaves, the car stays with you, either to sell or for the next nanny's use.

[murdock]

I'm surprised that any nanny ever provided their own car. That's a huge liability issue and all the wear and tear is on the nanny's salary. Even if mileage was paid. (and I nannied and still know plenty)

IMHO Either she drives you to work a few days a week, or you provide a third car that is only to be used for the children at your home.

[Deleted]

You aren't buying her a car. You're buying your kids transportation.

Or you're firing your pregnant nanny because she won't buy a car for your kids.

[luvmagoldn]

Jul 6, 2012 10:19:35 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

You aren't buying her a car. You're buying your kids transportation.

Or you're firing your pregnant nanny because she won't buy a car for your kids.

There it is. Agreed.

[Deleted]

Jul 6, 2012 8:50:16 GMT -5 ijack said:

I think that for the time being we're going to tell her that it's becoming more apparent that it would be convenient for her to be able to drive and we'd like her to practice her skills so that she can drive one of our cars a couple times a week (I have a call into our insurance company to see how that works) and we'll see how that works.

I think this sounds like a great plan. If she just needs to brush up on driving skills then I think this is a reasonable request. Would you be willing to pay to send her to driving school or something if she needs it (and to ensure she's going to be able to safely drive the kids?).

Have you talked to her at all to see if she plans to stay on after she has the baby? If she plans to continue nannying, I honestly don't know how she's going to be able to get around with 2 kids under 2 and your oldest anyway. You can't really pull 3 kids on a bike (can you?). She's going to have to figure something out but I think you can have a conversation with her about her ideas rather than just telling her how it's going to be and it will go over much better.

[downtoearth]

I didn't read everyone else's comments, but we did have a third car available for our nanny to use when we had one. It was an old Toyota minivan that we paid gas/insurance/etc. It ended up costing us around $600/yr for gas and $1000ish for insurance (only liability and medical, not full coverage) and we bought it with cash for like $3k...so as you can see, it was not a nice car, but it was built on a Toyota truck bed frame and was pretty safe.

So if you have $4-$5k around for that expense, it's not a bad way to go for a 3rd car for you guys that the nanny could use. We actually ended up selling the minivan for like $2500 3 years later. The best part is that she could go to the museums/zoo/etc. and sometimes pick-up groceries or craft supplies for us (all those places that are just a little too far on a bike with a carrier attached).

However, if you don't have $5k just laying around to use for that expense, I think it's good to let her know that it's probably going to become a concern and find out if she's at all interested in getting a car. Maybe you could up her pay by a $1-2 or so an hour if she does have a schedule to get a car (that is reasonable) and offer to gladly be a reference for any car loan documents she would need as her employer.

I think it's good to talk with her now about it rather than wait until DD#1 starts school or the weather starts getting crummy. She may also have some other ideas of how to get around - our nanny often borrowed her boyfriend's car when needed and all I required was that I saw current plates and current insurance when she drove it and she didn't mind longer walks/rides than I did since she had more time during the day and our youngest often napped in the bike carrier.

Good luck - I bet your nanny will understand that conditions changed and she'll try to make it work.

[MadamePresident]

I see your reluctance in wanting to get a car for her to use, knowing that she might decide to quit after her baby is born. If she stays and you allow her to bring her child to work, you would need something that would fit 3 carseats. But she may not get a carseat if she doesn't own a car herself and instead bikes everywhere. So then you would probably have to buy her a carseat, too.

I would be really nice to her and give her the opportunity to purchase one. I don't think her having hew own car is an unreasonable request, espicially if you would reimburse her for milage.

Letting her know this sooner rather than later would be more in her favor. Right now she's not that far along, so it would presumably be easier for her to find a new job, whereas waiting until she is 8 months pregnant would be much more difficult.

[chance22010]

I used to work for a smaller company where we did a lot of hiring and firing. Unless a car was something in her original job description she does not have to have one now UNLESS you write a new job description with that requirement and have her sign it.

Firing her over something like this is so dicey that I would not bring it up. If you're sure you want to part ways with her I would just say you no longer want to employ her or you have concerns in other avenues and you're letting her go. If you tell her about the car at the least she can and will file unemployment. If you let her go with an awesome separation package and express to her how much you really appreciate her you will most likely not need to worry about unemployment.

Just a note for next time, the next employee make sure you have a job description with every quality and criteria you want. Do annual reviews. Have a paper trail. It's immensely useful when and if you come to a termination situation which I see happening fairly often with a nanny, with, as your kids needs change your hired support will need to adjust as well.

[Deleted]

I'm curious how many people that have weighed in on what they say are legal issues here are employment attorneys. I have a pretty good guess at the number.

[Deleted]

Jul 6, 2012 10:14:33 GMT -5 murdock said:

I'm surprised that any nanny ever provided their own car. That's a huge liability issue and all the wear and tear is on the nanny's salary. Even if mileage was paid. (and I nannied and still know plenty)

IMHO Either she drives you to work a few days a week, or you provide a third car that is only to be used for the children at your home.

Mileage accounts for wear and tear. Works for us, and we pay our nanny really well, so I think it works for her too. The liability issue doesn't go away if she drives our car, either.

[adhdfashion]

Jul 5, 2012 21:01:07 GMT -5 cjeanette said:

I would provide her with a car.

This!

[mollybrown]

I would not buy a car for her to use. That would mean adding her to your insurance policy as a regular driver, and whatever policy increase that entails. She might even be considered a new driver depending on how many years it's been since she droves. And, if she has an accident, you and your husband can be liable since you own the car.

I'd go with Pugz' wording, and consult an attorney if she isn't able to get a car in a reasonable amount of time. Don't think it's unreasonable for a nanny to need a car. I was required to have one when I nannied.

Good luck!

[bronxgirl]

Jul 6, 2012 12:50:09 GMT -5 BirdGirl said:

I'm curious how many people that have weighed in on what they say are legal issues here are employment attorneys. I have a pretty good guess at the number.

:Y: Best response yet.

[seventeen]

When I was a nanny, the family provided me with a car to be used with their DD (I biked to their house and had my own car as well). Being their car, they could be certain it was well maintained and insured.

You mention that she needs to practice driving. I am not sure that I would want someone responsible for my children to be driving when they aren't confident or polished in their skills.

[Deleted]

Jul 6, 2012 10:01:58 GMT -5 DefenseAgainstTheDarkArts22 said:

I just wanted to point out that Pregnancy Discrimination only comes into play when an employer has 15 or more employees.

www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/pregnancy.cfm

I was just about to mention this. Her being pregnant is unfortunate, but take the pregnancy and the car out of the equation and focus on what you need: kids to be able to be out of the house.

[rex]

I think you need to find a new nanny who has her own car. It should have been a requirement in the first place, at least for safety.

[Deleted]

Jul 6, 2012 12:50:09 GMT -5 BirdGirl said:

I'm curious how many people that have weighed in on what they say are legal issues here are employment attorneys. I have a pretty good guess at the number.

this x 100000000000

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2012 14:03:31 GMT -5 @envinoveritas said:

Jul 6, 2012 10:01:58 GMT -5 DefenseAgainstTheDarkArts22 said:

I just wanted to point out that Pregnancy Discrimination only comes into play when an employer has 15 or more employees.

www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/pregnancy.cfm

I was just about to mention this. Her being pregnant is unfortunate, but take the pregnancy and the car out of the equation and focus on what you need: kids to be able to be out of the house.

EEOC discusses federal laws. Many states have their own pregnancy discrimination laws, which may have different requirements. A quick google search will tell you ijack's state is one of those states.

(not legal advice yadda yadda)

[aeroluv327]

Well, if the car thing doesn't work out, she could look to this woman for inspiration:

bikeportland.org/2012/06/28/with-six-kids-and-no-car-this-mom-does-it-all-by-bike-73731