Four year old sleep issues and other big(ger) kid issues

[matildasun]

In the MM thread, people complained that the parents of non-babies don't post much. Here is my contribution .

Since summer vacation, my daughter has been climbing into bed with us between 2-5 am. I usually don't even notice she is there until I wake up. If we do notices when she comes in we don't bring her back to her bed, because that could take up to an hour. We need to fix this, but I was trying to get the toddler to STTN first, because he is a better sleeper.

Also the 4 year old is not nighttime potty trained, and I think that also contributes to her not STTN and not staying in her own bed. 

Anyone have suggestions?

What do you want to discuss about your 3+ year old?

[matildasun]

Feb 20, 2014 11:42:55 GMT -5 @mrswindycity said:

 Have you asked why she gets into your bed? 

She claims that she misses us. She also likes to reassure us that she will sleep by herself when she is big . 

[mrssandro]

Finally a non baby post!

So has your DD had any signs of not wanting to use a diaper at night time? As soon as DD turned 4 she abruptly stopped using a pull-up at night. We stop putting it on her which I think finally triggered her not to want to make a mess. Really I have no clue why she stopped peeing at night.

As for the night time thing DD doesn't have this problem but I think it has to do with her style of bed. She has bunk bed from Ikea so she is lazy and doesn't like to climb down from the bed. We also tell her on the weekends that she needs to wait until the light comes out (or the sun comes up) to start screaming for us to get her. Sometimes this works.

Or maybe one of those clocks that say when it's time to get up?

[imojoebunny]

My DD did this. At the times he got to watch TV for an hour a day. We told her that if she came out of her room to do anything other than use the bathroom, or tell us she was sick or in pain, she would not get to watch TV the following day. I think it took two days for her to get it. You could use whatever toy or entertainment they like, just be sure to follow through. She almost never comes into our room at night, like maybe once in 4 years now. DS stated it up for a bit, he has always been a bad sleeper, we took away his screen time. It took him about 5 nights, but he got the message. It is one of those hills I will die on, we are all cranky when woken up in the middle of the night.

[lurknomore]

DD1 PT at just over 2. She was 5.5 tho before she could consistently go overnight without an accident. She still has about 1/month a couple of months later. Doesn't seem to matter how much or how little she has to drink before bed but going potty as the very last thing is essential. I have asked her pedi about it and she wasn't concerned until age 7. Some kids bodies just aren't ready, combined with being a very heavy sleeper. Ironically at 2.5, DD2 wakes up with a dry diaper about 98% of the time. She very clearly is close and I have no doubt she'll be overnight trained completely before 5.5

[hocus2]

I feel like your options are:

1. Do nothing. Or allow her to sleep on the floor in a sleeping bag as a comprise.
2. Reward chart. Every night she doesn't come to bed with you she gets a star and for X stars she gets Y reward.
3. Gate your room or gate her room.
4. Take her back to her room if you find her in your bed. Do don't spend an hour there (?). Maybe you'll have to do the supper nanny thing of taking her back over and over again for a few nights but it should sort itself out.

I am not sure I see how potty training plays into this. Is she wearing panties and then waking to pee? I would think a pull up would be easier for everyone if that is the case. My 4 year old JUST started wearing panties to bed. I gave her a flash light and put a small potty in her room in case she needed to get up. She never leaves her room and hasn't needed the potty yet.

[havarti]

Take my idea with a grain of salt because I am not to this point yet, but would one of these "okay to wake" type of clocks help?

www.diapers.com/p/the-stoplight-alarm-clock-car-alarm-clock-boy-145410?site=CA&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc_D&utm_term=SLA-004&utm_campaign=GooglePLA&CAWELAID=1338675673&utm_content=pla&ca_sku=SLA-004&ca_gpa=pla&ca_kw={keyword}

[dcrunnergirl52]

Feb 20, 2014 12:17:12 GMT -5 hocus2 said:

I feel like your options are:

1. Do nothing. Or allow her to sleep on the floor in a sleeping bag as a comprise.
2. Reward chart. Every night she doesn't come to bed with you she gets a star and for X stars she gets Y reward.
3. Gate your room or gate her room.
4. Take her back to her room if you find her in your bed. Do don't spend an hour there (?). Maybe you'll have to do the supper nanny thing of taking her back over and over again for a few nights but it should sort itself out.

I am not sure I see how potty training plays into this. Is she wearing panties and then waking to pee? I would think a pull up would be easier for everyone if that is the case. My 4 year old JUST started wearing panties to bed. I gave her a flash light and put a small potty in her room in case she needed to get up. She never leaves her room and hasn't needed the potty yet.

I agree with this, especially trying #2 and 3. We gate our twins' room. They could easily climb the gate, but they don't. They know it's there as a deterrent and that we mean business by putting it up. We also have a reward chart for staying in bed and other good behaviors.

[matildasun]

Feb 20, 2014 12:17:12 GMT -5 hocus2 said:

I feel like your options are:

1. Do nothing. Or allow her to sleep on the floor in a sleeping bag as a comprise.
2. Reward chart. Every night she doesn't come to bed with you she gets a star and for X stars she gets Y reward.
3. Gate your room or gate her room.
4. Take her back to her room if you find her in your bed. Do don't spend an hour there (?). Maybe you'll have to do the supper nanny thing of taking her back over and over again for a few nights but it should sort itself out.

I am not sure I see how potty training plays into this. Is she wearing panties and then waking to pee? I would think a pull up would be easier for everyone if that is the case. My 4 year old JUST started wearing panties to bed. I gave her a flash light and put a small potty in her room in case she needed to get up. She never leaves her room and hasn't needed the potty yet.

We planned on the reward chart, but I have not done anything about it.
She has horrible anxiety about being gated in. I am not sure how to handle it. I think it is real and not just drama. I am torn between respecting her need to not be "trapped" (her word) and just doing it anyway. 

The whole problem is really laziness on our part.
She wears a pull up, but it is always soaked when she comes to us, so I wonder if she is waking up when she pees.

[hocus2]

Feb 20, 2014 12:36:19 GMT -5 matildasun said:

Feb 20, 2014 12:17:12 GMT -5 hocus2 said:

I feel like your options are:

1. Do nothing. Or allow her to sleep on the floor in a sleeping bag as a comprise.
2. Reward chart. Every night she doesn't come to bed with you she gets a star and for X stars she gets Y reward.
3. Gate your room or gate her room.
4. Take her back to her room if you find her in your bed. Do don't spend an hour there (?). Maybe you'll have to do the supper nanny thing of taking her back over and over again for a few nights but it should sort itself out.

I am not sure I see how potty training plays into this. Is she wearing panties and then waking to pee? I would think a pull up would be easier for everyone if that is the case. My 4 year old JUST started wearing panties to bed. I gave her a flash light and put a small potty in her room in case she needed to get up. She never leaves her room and hasn't needed the potty yet.

We planned on the reward chart, but I have not done anything about it.
She has horrible anxiety about being gated in. I am not sure how to handle it. I think it is real and not just drama. I am torn between respecting her need to not be "trapped" (her word) and just doing it anyway. 

The whole problem is really laziness on our part.
She wears a pull up, but it is always soaked when she comes to us, so I wonder if she is waking up when she pees.

 Is she wearing a "pull up" or a "good nights". Pull ups suck and hold nothing. You need something like a good night or underjams. 

If she doesn't want to be gated in then gate YOUR door to keep her out. 

Honestly though it sounds like your not ready to really pull the trigger on a major change which is fine. I'm all about letting things play out. I find many things resolve themselves with time.

[WhatYouSee]

I think the options hocus laid out are spot on. My 3.5 year doesn't climb in bed with us, but she is in the habit of getting out of bed and laying on the floor in the hallway (we have an open foyer). We physically put her back in bed, while trying not to give her any attention (positive or negative). It hasn't stopped the behavior completely, but I think it has gotten better.

How is your DD's bedtime routine? Does she generally fall asleep on her own without a problem? Going back to Ferber, I wonder if she's just naturally waking up in the middle of the night (like we all do) and doesn't know how to put herself back to sleep. At the very least, she's formed a strong habit now of going into your bed. I wonder if you could find some sort of substitute for that habit (maybe a stuffed animal to hug when she misses you?)

My DD isn't nighttime potty-trained yet either, FWIW.

[Christina]

I have no suggestions. My 3 yo won't go to bed by herself. I have to lay with her. If she wakes up after I'm gone she comes to our room.
It's a mess. I keep saying we need to fix it but I have no idea where to start.

[madringal]

My DD1 went through this phase. We started by warning her ahead of time, that a change was a comin'. So we set a deadline, I think it was a few weeks before PreK started because she needed to get better sleep for school. So we told her, "Ok starting next week you will need to sleep in your own bed." And then when she would come in our room, we would walk her back to her bed. Every time. Sometimes one of us would have to stay there until she fell back asleep. Sometimes it happened 2-3 times a night, but it did get better. We just couldn't let ourselves get lazy (which is so easy to do at 3 am!)

[rootbeerfloat]

Feb 20, 2014 12:17:12 GMT -5 hocus2 said:

I feel like your options are:

1. Do nothing. Or allow her to sleep on the floor in a sleeping bag as a comprise.
2. Reward chart. Every night she doesn't come to bed with you she gets a star and for X stars she gets Y reward.
3. Gate your room or gate her room.
4. Take her back to her room if you find her in your bed. Do don't spend an hour there (?). Maybe you'll have to do the supper nanny thing of taking her back over and over again for a few nights but it should sort itself out.

I am not sure I see how potty training plays into this. Is she wearing panties and then waking to pee? I would think a pull up would be easier for everyone if that is the case. My 4 year old JUST started wearing panties to bed. I gave her a flash light and put a small potty in her room in case she needed to get up. She never leaves her room and hasn't needed the potty yet.

I agree with this. FWIW, we still let our big kids come into bed with us in the middle of the night. But #2 or #4 would probably be our approach if we wanted to keep them in their own beds.

DD (4) is also not night-trained. We tried a few months ago, but unless we did a "dream-pee" around 10pm, she would have an accident, and changing sheets in the middle of the night was exhausting. We also tried underwear under a pull-up, but she would wake up wet and asked to be changed... also annoying, lol.

[hocus2]

Feb 20, 2014 14:15:44 GMT -5 Christina said:

I have no suggestions. My 3 yo won't go to bed by herself. I have to lay with her. If she wakes up after I'm gone she comes to our room.
It's a mess. I keep saying we need to fix it but I have no idea where to start.

  It starts with accepting that it will be hard on you guys for a short time

 At 3 you could really a few different options. You could gate her in and let her work it out which would probably be the fastest option. You could try doing a reward chart if you think she'd get it. Or you could do a shuffle where you start sitting next to her and then sit future away and then sit in the hall etc. Just be sure you're ready to make the change because you'll need to work through the rough spot without back sliding.

FWIW I did a reward chart for bedtime because my daughter was refusing to allow my husband to put her to bed. It took 1 week and we saw dramatic improvements. There are still some crappy bedtimes but nothing like the hysterical crying of I hate daddy any more. I was truly desperate and was surprised by how well it work. I did 5 stars per reward and the rewards were a box of pinata toys. 

[dbsk8dance]

DS went through this phase too. He is (4.5) he is not night trained. I like the reward chart idea. Does she have a night light or flashlight? Those really seemed to help DS.

[megs193]

We use a tot clock and bribery. If he doesn't come out of his room before his clock is yellow ( it turns yellow at 7am) then he gets to have the iPad for 30 minutes in the morning. He is lazy like me and likes to sit on the couch so he stopped coming out of his room.

[Deleted]

Your 4 year old is outwitting you to get what she wants.

Ferber has a whole chapter on setting limits. That's most of what you've got here. My 2 year old was FURIOUS to have his door closed... but that's because he's not getting what he wants. You don't have to change this (if you're sleeping through it, I don't think it's a big problem), but you absolutely can if you want to.