IHO Fat Tuesday: Fat is officially incurable

[mcgee]

www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/fat-officially-incurable-according-to-science/

Let's get this straight: The number of people who go from fat to thin, and stay there, statistically rounds down to zero.

Every study says so. No study says otherwise. None.

Oh, you can lose a ton of weight. You'll gain it back. Here's one study running the numbers. Here's a much larger analysis of every long-term weight loss study they could find. They all find the exact same thing: You can lose and keep off some minor amount, 10 or 15 pounds, for the rest of your life -- it's hard, but it can be done. Rarer cases may keep off a little more. But no one goes from actually fat to actually thin and stays thin permanently.

And when I say "no one," I mean those cases are so obscenely rare that they don't even appear on the chart. They can't even find enough such people to include in the studies. It's like trying to study people who have survived falling out of planes. Being fat is effectively incurable, every study shows it, and no one will admit it.

So the guy or girl you see in the "Before" and "After" photos in weight loss commercials, who completely changed body type with diet and exercise? You know, like Jared from Subway, who lost 230 pounds? Either they're about to be fat again in a couple of years, or they're a medical freak occurrence, like the sick guy who was told he had six months to live but miraculously survives 20 years. That guy exists, we all know famous examples. But it's a rare, freak situation, living in defiance of all of the physical processes at work.

How rare? Well, this person did the math, and as far as they could tell, two out of 1,000 Weight Watchers customers actually maintain large weight losses permanently. Two out of a thousand. That means if you are fat, you are 25 times more likely to survive getting shot in the head than to stop being fat.

Meanwhile, here's an article where scientists marvel at the amazing success of Weight Watchers, because a study of their most successful customers showed they permanently lost 5 percent of their weight. Wow! You come in at 300 pounds, you stay at 285! Next stop, thong store!

So please remember this the next time the subject comes up at the office or on some message board and you get bombarded by thin 20-year-olds insisting the obese need to just "cut out the junk food" or "take care of themselves" or "do some exercise." The body physically won't allow that for a formerly fat person.

"Well, just stop eating so much!" Sure, kid. To feel what it's like, try this: Go, say, just 72 hours without eating anything. See how long it is until the starvation mechanism kicks in and the brain starts hammering you with food urges with such machine gun frequency that it is basically impossible to resist. That's what life is like for a formerly fat person all the time. Their starvation switch is permanently on. And they're not going 72 hours, they're trying to go the rest of their lives. Don't take my word for it. Here's a breakdown of the science, in plain English. It's like being an addict where the withdrawal symptoms last for decades.

As that article explains, the person who is at 175 pounds after a huge weight loss now has a completely different physical makeup from the person who is naturally 175 -- exercise benefits them less, calories are more readily stored as fat, the impulse to eat occurs far, far more often. The formerly fat person can exercise ten times the willpower of the never-fat guy, and still wind up fat again. The impulses are simply more frequent, and stronger, and the physical consequences of giving in are more severe. The people who successfully do it are the ones who become psychologically obsessive about it, like that weird guy who built an Eiffel Tower out of toothpicks.

Statistically, the only option with any success rate is a horrible, horrible surgical procedure. I can find no data whatsoever that says otherwise. Keep all of this in mind the next time you see a Jenny Craig or Bowflex commercial.

Read more: Fat Is Officially Incurable (According to Science) | Cracked.com www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/fat-officially-incurable-according-to-science/#ixzz20Fo80nBJ

[Deleted]

This oddly makes me feel better about trying to lose the last 20 preg pounds. If I can do this and then just run and exercise and eat reasonably healthfully, I think I'll be okay.

[bqbride]

This is so fucking depressing.

[noodleoo]

But then why are people in other countries statistically thinner than the US? Is it that once you gain the weight, your body changes so you can't lose it again? THAT scares me.

[pescalita]

Jul 10, 2012 17:05:08 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

But then why are people in other countries statistically thinner than the US? Is it that once you gain the weight, your body changes so you can't lose it again? THAT scares me.

I believe epp has shared studies that say exactly this.

I've been on this train for awhile now, just anecdotally even, how many people do you know who did it? I come from a family who all look like this and who have looked like this for 30 years or more through 80 diets and healthy eating phases.

I can live my whole life trying to lose weight, or I can live my life as healthily as I can at whatever weight I am now. I choose the latter.

[gault]

:-( :-( :-( x infinity

This is so depressing...especially as someone who's lost over 100 pounds and 40% of her body weight. wtf, life?

[mcgee]

Yeah, it's pretty freaking depressing. If gastric bypass is statistically the only way to lose weight and keep it off, that's looking better and better to me, even if I'm not a 300 pound diabetic.

[bqbride]

Jul 10, 2012 19:08:17 GMT -5 mcgee said:

Yeah, it's pretty freaking depressing. If gastric bypass is statistically the only way to lose weight and keep it off, that's looking better and better to me, even if I'm not a 300 pound diabetic.

Agreed. I'd be happy with just being 30 pounds less, and ecstatic with 40 less. I've gotten there before, but found it impossible to maintain. I work out like a dog, eat healthier than most people I know, and am still carrying around 30-40 pounds extra. My body just seems to re-set to this weight whenever I'm anything less than vigilant and obsessive about my weight and my diet. I guess this helps explain why, but it's depressing as hell. I am willing to sacrifice, but do I have to physically be HUNGRY, like, FOREVER?

[mcgee]

I think the mindset probably has to be that if you've been overweight, if you want to get to a normal weight and stay there, you will ALWAYS have to eat and work out like you're trying to lose weight.

[pescalita]

Jul 10, 2012 22:22:51 GMT -5 mcgee said:

I think the mindset probably has to be that if you've been overweight, if you want to get to a normal weight and stay there, you will ALWAYS have to eat and work out like you're trying to lose weight.

I think if it were a mindset, it wouldn't be such a statistical anomaly.

[mrsjuleshs]

This is really depressing.

[Deleted]

So cracked.com is a good source for this info?

[emmybean]

Jul 10, 2012 22:22:51 GMT -5 mcgee said:

I think the mindset probably has to be that if you've been overweight, if you want to get to a normal weight and stay there, you will ALWAYS have to eat and work out like you're trying to lose weight.

I think the mindset should always be to always eat healthfully and not ever be "dieting" or "trying to lose weight" I fail to believe that a person who eats a sensible diet and exercises on a regular basis will ever be obese.

[AJL]

Jul 11, 2012 9:49:45 GMT -5 @mjmksb04 said:

So cracked.com is a good source for this info?

Ha! That's what I was thinking when I first saw this article (from a FB post.)

[bluestreet]

Jul 10, 2012 22:22:51 GMT -5 mcgee said:

I think the mindset probably has to be that if you've been overweight, if you want to get to a normal weight and stay there, you will ALWAYS have to eat and work out like you're trying to lose weight.

This is my fear! I don't want to be in that mode all the time. I don't even like hanging out with people who are in that mode all the time. They're a drag!

I just want to a semi-healthy eater who exercises 2-3 times a week. And I'll happily forgo the 130 of my pre-kids days for a zaftig 145-150, if that means I can enjoy chocolate, wine, and cheese! Guess I should get the fuck off the board and exercise.

[ghosty]

Fuck that noise.

I actually think, even if this is true, it's not like people who have lost a ton of weight and are trying to maintain can't ever eat a french fry again. So what if you have to be vigilant about what you are eating most of the time? People should be doing that anyway. And an even bigger so what to being upset that your friend Jane who has never been fat and has a fast metabolism can eat 500 calories a day more than you. Does it really matter? I mean that's like what, one big chocolate chip cookie a day?

The fact is, maybe your body works against you once you've already been fat and yep, that blows donkey balls. But once you've lost the weight, just keep on watching the diet and keep exercising moderately and you can still enjoy some wine and treats on the weekend, I'm sure.

[SusanBAnthony]

Jul 11, 2012 10:51:15 GMT -5 ghosty said:

Fuck that noise.

I actually think, even if this is true, it's not like people who have lost a ton of weight and are trying to maintain can't ever eat a french fry again. So what if you have to be vigilant about what you are eating most of the time? People should be doing that anyway. And an even bigger so what to being upset that your friend Jane who has never been fat and has a fast metabolism can eat 500 calories a day more than you. Does it really matter? I mean that's like what, one big chocolate chip cookie a day?

The fact is, maybe your body works against you once you've already been fat and yep, that blows donkey balls. But once you've lost the weight, just keep on watching the diet and keep exercising moderately and you can still enjoy some wine and treats on the weekend, I'm sure.

Its like you didnt read the article. The whole point is that ist not as easy as just "eat healthy, eat less".

[ttt]

Jul 11, 2012 10:51:15 GMT -5 ghosty said:

Fuck that noise.

I actually think, even if this is true, it's not like people who have lost a ton of weight and are trying to maintain can't ever eat a french fry again. So what if you have to be vigilant about what you are eating most of the time? People should be doing that anyway. And an even bigger so what to being upset that your friend Jane who has never been fat and has a fast metabolism can eat 500 calories a day more than you. Does it really matter? I mean that's like what, one big chocolate chip cookie a day?

The fact is, maybe your body works against you once you've already been fat and yep, that blows donkey balls. But once you've lost the weight, just keep on watching the diet and keep exercising moderately and you can still enjoy some wine and treats on the weekend, I'm sure.

Please to read the article before commenting k thx.

[ghosty]

I read it. I just don't buy this:

As that article explains, the person who is at 175 pounds after a huge weight loss now has a completely different physical makeup from the person who is naturally 175 -- exercise benefits them less, calories are more readily stored as fat, the impulse to eat occurs far, far more often. The formerly fat person can exercise ten times the willpower of the never-fat guy, and still wind up fat again.

Or this:

Let's get this straight: The number of people who go from fat to thin, and stay there, statistically rounds down to zero.


I'd be happy to read some actual hard science supporting both of these statements and not just an article from cracked.com.

And if all of this is absolutely 100% true and proven with real scientific evidence, then the vast majority of America is totally fucked and may as well just give up.

[ghosty]

As that article explains, the person who is at 175 pounds after a huge weight loss now has a completely different physical makeup from the person who is naturally 175 -- exercise benefits them less, calories are more readily stored as fat, the impulse to eat occurs far, far more often. The formerly fat person can exercise ten times the willpower of the never-fat guy, and still wind up fat again.

I should also add that the reason I don't buy this statement is mostly anecdotal- I've lost almost 40lbs and with my current diet, I acutally feel less hungry than I did when I was eating junk most of the time and drinking more.

Maybe not worth much as just an anecdote, but I've heard similar stories from people I know who has changed their diet.

[gault]

Also, when you lose weight, you don't actually lose fat cells...they just shrink. So I'm wondering if that's part of it - us fatties with more actual fat cells have an easier time just plumping them up again vs. those who need to create fat cells? Does this mean that lipo may help, as well, and not just gastric bypass or sleeve?

/hypothesis

[dev22]

THis shit depresses me so much. Like for real. Kinda like, WTH is the point of even trying.

[emmybean]

Jul 11, 2012 18:37:07 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Jul 11, 2012 9:52:43 GMT -5 emmybean said:

I think the mindset should always be to always eat healthfully and not ever be "dieting" or "trying to lose weight" I fail to believe that a person who eats a sensible diet and exercises on a regular basis will ever be obese.

Yes, but if someone doesn't start with those habits and becomes obese, a sensible diet and regular exercise may not be enough. The definitions of those things would be different for obese (or formally obese) and non-obese people.

Bullshit.

Everyone's definition of a healthy diet and regular exercise is different. As it should be. The key is to find what works for each individual, not a comparative analysis of calories burned calories eaten. This one sized fits all/most approach is a huge part of the problem.

Perhaps a formerly obese person will not be able to eat as many french fries on their healthy diet and may need to work out more regularly than someone who has never been obese, but so what? I absolutely do not believe that eating well for your body type and a regular workout schedule will result in a formally obese person returning to obesity.

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2012 19:25:40 GMT -5 emmybean said:

Jul 11, 2012 18:37:07 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Yes, but if someone doesn't start with those habits and becomes obese, a sensible diet and regular exercise may not be enough. The definitions of those things would be different for obese (or formally obese) and non-obese people.

Bullshit.

Everyone's definition of a healthy diet and regular exercise is different. As it should be. The key is to find what works for each individual, not a comparative analysis of calories burned calories eaten. This one sized fits all/most approach is a huge part of the problem.

Perhaps a formerly obese person will not be able to eat as many french fries on their healthy diet and may need to work out more regularly than someone who has never been obese, but so what? I absolutely do not believe that eating well for your body type and a regular workout schedule will result in a formally obese person returning to obesity.

See, that's the thing--"eating well for your body type" might be a really small amount of calories for an obese person. Hence, they need to be hungry all the time in order to maintain a lower weight. This is why it's really damn hard for formerly fat people to stay thinner--you have to eat perfectly basically all the time, and err on the side of hunger. I imagine it gets very tiring remaining hungry for years on end.

[Kore]

Jul 11, 2012 19:58:21 GMT -5 @dontcallmeshirley said:

Jul 11, 2012 19:25:40 GMT -5 emmybean said:

Bullshit.

Everyone's definition of a healthy diet and regular exercise is different. As it should be. The key is to find what works for each individual, not a comparative analysis of calories burned calories eaten. This one sized fits all/most approach is a huge part of the problem.

Perhaps a formerly obese person will not be able to eat as many french fries on their healthy diet and may need to work out more regularly than someone who has never been obese, but so what? I absolutely do not believe that eating well for your body type and a regular workout schedule will result in a formally obese person returning to obesity.

See, that's the thing--"eating well for your body type" might be a really small amount of calories for an obese person. Hence, they need to be hungry all the time in order to maintain a lower weight. This is why it's really damn hard for formerly fat people to stay thinner--you have to eat perfectly basically all the time, and err on the side of hunger. I imagine it gets very tiring remaining hungry for years on end.

Yes. I lost 100 lbs with a strict vegan, no-sugar, high fiber, no snacking diet with regular vigorous exercise. And then I ended up bulimic because I had such warped food rules that I feared I'd gain back all of my weight if I slightly deviated from the plan. I was always hungry, but if I ate more than 1500 calories, I'd gain. I'm 6'2". To say that the formerly obese person needs to always just eat less is like telling a runner they can only have 4 oz of water after a marathon when they're super thirsty. Eventually, their thirst is going to get the better of them, and they're going to drink more.

Physiological impulses can't be completely disregarded. Living in a state of semi-starvation isn't sustainable in a country with an abundance of food.

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2012 20:30:00 GMT -5 mr+ms said:

Jul 11, 2012 19:58:21 GMT -5 @dontcallmeshirley said:

See, that's the thing--"eating well for your body type" might be a really small amount of calories for an obese person. Hence, they need to be hungry all the time in order to maintain a lower weight. This is why it's really damn hard for formerly fat people to stay thinner--you have to eat perfectly basically all the time, and err on the side of hunger. I imagine it gets very tiring remaining hungry for years on end.

If someone *had* to feel hungry on a regular basis in order to maintain a reasonable fat loss, I'm thinking that the person lost fat but hormones are still out of whack. I find it hard to believe that this condition of being weight reduced but still lacking a healthy balance somewhere in their body can't be fixed or at least improved upon.

Also, people often neglect other important environmental factors in fat loss like sufficient, good quality sleep, getting enough sun/vit.D and stress management. Humans are kind of like any other living thing (shocker); you can put a plant in the most amazing, fertile soil but if you stick it in a dark corner and forget to water it, it's not going to do too well. Garbage in, garbage out.

So, are you saying that the millions of people who lose weight following a sensible eating plan and then fall off the wagon and regain have a hormone imbalance? The people who make the cultural rules and norms still revere thinness, so you'd think people would be motivated to keep weight off. And yet, most people gain back, because they can't handle being hungry all the time.

[emmybean]

Jul 11, 2012 19:58:21 GMT -5 @dontcallmeshirley said:

Jul 11, 2012 19:25:40 GMT -5 emmybean said:

Bullshit.

Everyone's definition of a healthy diet and regular exercise is different. As it should be. The key is to find what works for each individual, not a comparative analysis of calories burned calories eaten. This one sized fits all/most approach is a huge part of the problem.

Perhaps a formerly obese person will not be able to eat as many french fries on their healthy diet and may need to work out more regularly than someone who has never been obese, but so what? I absolutely do not believe that eating well for your body type and a regular workout schedule will result in a formally obese person returning to obesity.

See, that's the thing--"eating well for your body type" might be a really small amount of calories for an obese person. Hence, they need to be hungry all the time in order to maintain a lower weight. This is why it's really damn hard for formerly fat people to stay thinner--you have to eat perfectly basically all the time, and err on the side of hunger. I imagine it gets very tiring remaining hungry for years on end.

This has not been my experience.

At all.

Then again, I never went hungry while losing weight, either. And I never had the expectation that there was a "perfect" way to eat.

Once I learned to eat healthy foods, and eat them only when hungry and not past satiation, I was fine. It was once I couldn't work out, then got pregnant, that I gained back. Ive been maintaining since this current loss just fine without hunger or psychological issues.

And before anyone gets all "well good for you, but you don't know what real food issues are" let me jus say, you're right. I don't. And I own that. But food issues/eating disorders are a different animal, and don't enter into the biological process of how food is processed and used by the body. I'm speaking only from my own, admittedly based on what I've seen here and elsewhere, rare experience, which is, that when you lose weight while eating healthfully and working out regularly, it is more than possible to maintain that weight loss without starving yourself or working out 4 hours a day. All other mental or emotional issues that come with obesity withheld.

[sydney02]

Jul 11, 2012 20:37:33 GMT -5 @dontcallmeshirley said:

Jul 11, 2012 20:30:00 GMT -5 mr+ms said:

If someone *had* to feel hungry on a regular basis in order to maintain a reasonable fat loss, I'm thinking that the person lost fat but hormones are still out of whack. I find it hard to believe that this condition of being weight reduced but still lacking a healthy balance somewhere in their body can't be fixed or at least improved upon.

Also, people often neglect other important environmental factors in fat loss like sufficient, good quality sleep, getting enough sun/vit.D and stress management. Humans are kind of like any other living thing (shocker); you can put a plant in the most amazing, fertile soil but if you stick it in a dark corner and forget to water it, it's not going to do too well. Garbage in, garbage out.

So, are you saying that the millions of people who lose weight following a sensible eating plan and then fall off the wagon and regain have a hormone imbalance? The people who make the cultural rules and norms still revere thinness, so you'd think people would be motivated to keep weight off. And yet, most people gain back, because they can't handle being hungry all the time.

This is exactly me. It's taken me 40 years to finally and truly accept the fact that I cannot eat like a normal healthy person. I've struggled with weight my whole life. I've been chubby since I was 3 and 4 years old. Even when I was a size 6, I still had a chubby look. Think Ginnifer Goodwin in the movie Win a Date with Tad Hamilton. (looked chubby but at closer look was actually pretty small)
For me to lose weight and keep it off, my diet has to be a science. I've kept food journals. I know what I've eaten all week. If I don't lose weight, I need to tweak it. My diet basically has to be small portions, low carb, very low sugar, and even lean protein. Things like bacon and red meat will put weight on me. It's horrible. It sucks. And yes I'm hungry all the time. That's why my weight goes up and down. I haven't been smaller than a size 10 in the past 15 years.
Bottom line for me is, if I'm NOT hungry, I'm not going to lose weight and it will start to creep back on me. I remember Oprah saying that her doctor told her to get used to the hunger. That is so true for me and people like me. I think the only way I could lose weight and not be hungry would be to eat something like Fiber One all day long. No thanks.

Oh I also work out regularly. I've recently started doing less cardio at the gym and more weights. I've read that resistance training helps with weight loss. But even that I have to watch because too much working out makes me even more hungry.

[pescalita]

Jul 11, 2012 23:18:53 GMT -5 emmybean said:

I'm speaking only from my own, admittedly based on what I've seen here and elsewhere, rare experience, which is, that when you lose weight while eating healthfully and working out regularly, it is more than possible to maintain that weight loss without starving yourself or working out 4 hours a day. All other mental or emotional issues that come with obesity withheld.

Then why is it that almost no one can maintain this long term? Is it all the other mental or emotional issues?

I wish I had time to research the stats quoted in this article, because my anecdotal experience supports them. I can't think of anyone I know who has kept off a large amount of weight for more than 10 years w/o surgery.

If *no one* (at least statistically) can do it, I really don't see how there is any way to say it is possible.

Unless you just don't believe the article, in which case, ignore me.

[emmybean]

Look, Sonrisa already said that his sources don't back up his claims as written---and for fucks sake this is David Wong we are discussing here, his MO is to take a topic worth discussion and turn it in to an absolute extreme by blending cherry picked facts with an Anders Breivik like conviction. This type of thing is not new for him, and it's not the first time this board has bought it hook line and sinker.

I have no doubt, and completely empathize with people that have to be vigilant about what they eat and how much they work out. But the fact is that not every former fattie has to live like this. My opinion is that anyone who has to watch their food intake more carefully would have to do so regardless of how fat they once were. Perhaps because they were once fat they now have to be extra vigilant, and that truly sucks, but it doesn't mean they wouldn't have to be careful about what they ate otherwise. Some people are able to eat more, or different foods than others. Some people can get away with less exercise than others. It's just a fact. People get fat for different reasons. Perhaps they have a slower metabolism and shouldn't have ever eaten more than 1800 calories a day. Maybe, like me, they just grew up completely uneducated about food and exercise and just needed to learn. And no doubt, the food culture in this country has led to a shit ton of disordered eating which needs to be dealt with on a whole other level. But it's not impossible to avoid becoming obese again, And thinking so is just defeatist and frankly, a lazy way out.