Oh- another anti-vaccer post

[Odonata]

I've read on here of people complaining about FB nonsense and I've finally witness it first hand:

Friend:  Vaccinating your children is right up there as a parental duty as keeping them fed and clothed. There is ZERO excuse for outbreaks of measles and mumps in this day and age.

Crazy Lady:  It also can cause death, autism, severe life threatening food allergies... And more. If I ever have children they will definitely not be vaccinated. I have personally seen and worked with children who have almost died as a result. I'm fine with people thinking I'm nuts. It's a personal decision and as a parent you need to do what you feel is right.

Me (in a fit):  See, doesn't the resurgence only point to the benefits of vaccination?



I find it so sad that many people are not educated enough to REALLY research the effects of vaccinations. If you're going to say things like vaccines "cause" all of these issues, you really ought to do the actual research to make sure you are making a sound decision for your child. And let me be perfectly clear here - research does not mean to Google something. Look up the SCIENTIFIC PAPERS from true SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS. NOT what you read on some blog or what the news tells you at 10 pm at night.  

Also, if you're truly trained in the scientific/medical field, you would not jump on some issue without realizing that there many be other variables that cause some effect. Just because a child received a vaccine and then developed a food allergy does not point to the vaccine as the cause. Without controlled studies you just cannot make that conclusion!

Crazy Lady:  Like I said. I have worked with a child who is now disabled and autistic from her 18 month mmr vaccine. The doctors have even written that as the direct cause in all of her medical charts. And also as I said, I don't judge anyone no matter what their decision. I just know what mine would/will be. You can only do what you believe is best for your child.

Me:  You're telling me the doctors actually wrote that the main and direct cause to that child's autism was the vaccine. And they ruled this based on what? Considering there is no medical connection what would these doctors have to go on? Their own opinion?

Crazy Lady:  *Posts video link about this kid who's autism was caused by a vaccine (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NMh5EaeLFMU) which OBVIOUSLY proves her point with stunning scientific evidence*  Yes, *****. The doctors (plural) did write that. She is 6 or 7 now and still unable to walk, has celiac disease, and is basically non verbal.   It's all out there if you just read up on it.

AHHHHHHH!  OH MY FUCKING GOD!

[purrbox]

Apr 18, 2014 13:07:51 GMT -5 Odonata said:

Me:  You're telling me the doctors actually wrote that the main and direct cause to that child's autism was the vaccine. And they ruled this based on what? Considering there is no medical connection what would these doctors have to go on? Their own opinion?

I'm with you on this. I'm finding it extremely hard to believe that the doctors would actually cite the vaccine as a direct cause. It's hard to pinpoint anything as a direct cause, let alone routine vaccinations.

I would LOL at the crazy, but this is some serious shit. I can't believe there are so many people who believe this stuff. Are there any risks associated with getting vaccinations? Sure. But weight those extremely slim risks against the greater risks of eliminating herd immunity before choosing to forgo vaccines altogether.

[ringstrue]

Don't get me started!

I hate when they say it's a personal decision or a parent's right to make the decision. No, it's not your decision whether or not your child lives or dies. Stop putting their life in your hands and be responsible.

[Odonata]

Here's the thing. If the doctors did write anything in the chart, it may have been that the girl had an allergic reaction to the vaccien that then caused some life-time effects.

But that's not saying that vaccines are harmful and should be avoided. Plenty of people are allergic to life-saving medications (penicillin anyone?)

I am so sick and tired of people with no medical or science background coming up with definitive conclusions without even considering experts on the matter. The decisions these wackjobs are making are having a major impact on the health of our population.

She's still trying to argue with me after I said "Listen Julie, you point me to the source of your information and the controlled studies to back up your statements, and I'll stop believing you're an uneducated nut case."

She told me she wishes I would be more respectful and not so rude. Then she goes on to say "Your opinion. I don't judge anyone and respectfully ask the same. And, I am just about done with my AA so I'm not totally uneducated"

My response:
"You keep using that word but i don't think you know what it means. When deciphering scientific data, there is no such thing as opinion. My stance on this is not a matter of opinion. I can't respect someone who makes such flawed decisions and refuses to use their education."

[pinotgrig]

Apr 18, 2014 13:54:49 GMT -5 ringstrue said:

Don't get me started!

I hate when they say it's a personal decision or a parent's right to make the decision. No, it's not your decision whether or not your child lives or dies. Stop putting their life in your hands and be responsible.

This is where I'm at.

And while we're at it, it's not your (anti vax'ers) decision to put other people at risk who rely on herd immunity or have a legit allergy to something in a certain vaccine that prevents them from getting the vaccine.

[pinotgrig]

Loooove all your response, Odonata!

[linz]

This is sich a touchy subject with me. I hate when people say autism as a defense. They have obviously dont have a fucking clue. A friend on fb is against it and always post articles supporting her choice. I so badly want to defriend her.

[Odonata]

Apr 18, 2014 14:06:31 GMT -5 pinotgrig said:

Loooove all your response, Odonata!

Thanks!  I shocked myself.  This is the very first online altercation I've ever been in!  haha.  I usually just keep my head down and not say anything.  And I've never outright called anyone stupid or a nutjob or whatever I called her before (at least to the person's face)

Has anyone else found they became more bold and forward after becoming pregnant?  Seriously, I find myself speaking up when I usually don't (IRL and online) and I can't tell if it's the baby, hormones, my new position in life, or what.  

Maybe it's how we all become momma bears?  lol.  

[mrspost08]

Apr 18, 2014 14:10:09 GMT -5 Odonata said:

Apr 18, 2014 14:06:31 GMT -5 pinotgrig said:

Loooove all your response, Odonata!

Thanks!  I shocked myself.  This is the very first online altercation I've ever been in!  haha.  I usually just keep my head down and not say anything.  And I've never outright called anyone stupid or a nutjob or whatever I called her before (at least to the person's face)

Has anyone else found they became more bold and forward after becoming pregnant?  Seriously, I find myself speaking up when I usually don't (IRL and online) and I can't tell if it's the baby, hormones, my new position in life, or what.  

Maybe it's how we all become momma bears?  lol.  

Oh I'm very much in people face since I got pregnant. I don't crap from anyone.

There have measles exposed in San Francisco on the train over the past few months. People have been freaking out. I haven't because I received my MMR in the past 2 years. I had it as a kid & needed a booster. We wouldn't be dealing with this if people vaccinated.

[jewel]

Have you seen all the 'Dr' Megan Heimer stuff on CEP lately?? It was hilariously awful, and she's a moron.

[Odonata]

Autistiauthor="mrspost08" source="/post/6083859/thread" timestamp="1397851436"]

Apr 18, 2014 14:10:09 GMT -5 Odonata said:

Thanks!  I shocked myself.  This is the very first online altercation I've ever been in!  haha.  I usually just keep my head down and not say anything.  And I've never outright called anyone stupid or a nutjob or whatever I called her before (at least to the person's face)

Has anyone else found they became more bold and forward after becoming pregnant?  Seriously, I find myself speaking up when I usually don't (IRL and online) and I can't tell if it's the baby, hormones, my new position in life, or what.  

Maybe it's how we all become momma bears?  lol.  

Oh I'm very much in people face since I got pregnant. I don't crap from anyone.

There have measles exposed in San Francisco on the train over the past few months. People have been freaking out. I haven't because I received my MMR in the past 2 years. I had it as a kid & needed a booster. We wouldn't be dealing with this if people vaccinated. [/quote]


I would love to hear an honest opinion from someone who did not vaccinate their children on these outbreaks. Especially if they happen to live in that area. Are they nervous? are they re thinking their decision?or do they still hold that their decision was best for their family?and what kind of explanation do they have for these outbreaks happening?

they always quote the increasing number of autism cases per year, but seem to conveniently ignore the increasing number a supposedly eradicated disease outbreaks.

also ignored,is a fact that we have become better at detecting and diagnosing autism, so that people who were once considered strange or anti social are now labeled as autistic. I wonder if that could be the cause for the increase in cases? No, that would make too much sense. Let's just revert back a hundred fifty years .

[gretchenindisguise]

Apr 18, 2014 15:17:48 GMT -5 Odonata said:

Autistiauthor="mrspost08" source="/post/6083859/thread" timestamp="1397851436"]

Apr 18, 2014 14:10:09 GMT -5 Odonata said:

Thanks!  I shocked myself.  This is the very first online altercation I've ever been in!  haha.  I usually just keep my head down and not say anything.  And I've never outright called anyone stupid or a nutjob or whatever I called her before (at least to the person's face)

Has anyone else found they became more bold and forward after becoming pregnant?  Seriously, I find myself speaking up when I usually don't (IRL and online) and I can't tell if it's the baby, hormones, my new position in life, or what.  

Maybe it's how we all become momma bears?  lol.  

Oh I'm very much in people face since I got pregnant. I don't crap from anyone.

There have measles exposed in San Francisco on the train over the past few months. People have been freaking out. I haven't because I received my MMR in the past 2 years. I had it as a kid & needed a booster. We wouldn't be dealing with this if people vaccinated.

I would love to hear an honest opinion from someone who did not vaccinate their children on these outbreaks. Especially if they happen to live in that area. Are they nervous? are they re thinking their decision?or do they still hold that their decision was best for their family?and what kind of explanation do they have for these outbreaks happening?

they always quote the increasing number of autism cases per year, but seem to conveniently ignore the increasing number a supposedly eradicated disease outbreaks.

also ignored,is a fact that we have become better at detecting and diagnosing autism, so that people who were once considered strange or anti social are now labeled as autistic. I wonder if that could be the cause for the increase in cases? No, that would make too much sense. Let's just revert back a hundred fifty years . [/quote]

I'm not one of those people. But my guess is that a) it will never happen to my precious b) if it does happen to my precious (which it won't, please see a), it won't be as bad as autism would be.

I actually read an article over on PCE on autism and anti-depressant use during pregnancy link. I think we'll find that all sorts of things have led to this increase, but the link between anti-depressant is intriguing to me, beacuse I think there was probably an increase in the prescription of anti-depressants that follows a similar trajectory to the increase in autism.

[sherlock]

A woman who babysat me when I was little got chicken pox while pregnant and her daughter has severe disabilities. There were some folks posting anti-vaxx stuff on FB and I posted that.

One lady, who is a friend of my parents and not at all friends with these people decides to jump in (thanks Facebook privacy) and says she was vaxxed and got pertussis at camp with her whole cabin but she didn't vaxx her kids and they are "soooo super healthy."

Insert eye roll.

I didn't say it because she is a friend of my parents but her kids are all morbidly obese despite the vegetarian all soy/no dairy diet she had them on. And they are little jerks. (In college now.) not exactly a recommendation to me.

[Odonata]

Apr 19, 2014 17:45:38 GMT -5 sherlock said:

A woman who babysat me when I was little got chicken pox while pregnant and her daughter has severe disabilities. There were some folks posting anti-vaxx stuff on FB and I posted that.

One lady, who is a friend of my parents and not at all friends with these people decides to jump in (thanks Facebook privacy) and says she was vaxxed and got pertussis at camp with her whole cabin but she didn't vaxx her kids and they are "soooo super healthy."

Insert eye roll.

I didn't say it because she is a friend of my parents but her kids are all morbidly obese despite the vegetarian all soy/no dairy diet she had them on. And they are little jerks. (In college now.) not exactly a recommendation to me.

And yet another example of people making black and white conclusions on topics they are not educated enough on.

Due to genetic variation, not all people will have the immune response to a vaccine so while they had the shot they are not protected.

[FastHands]

I think it's severely unfortunate that well-intentioned people are following dangerous guidance from uninformed or willfully incorrect sources.

That said, it also makes me sad when others rail at them, or worse, insult them. All that serves is to make them feel attacked and defensive, and guarantees that they will not be open to any new information. Hugely counterproductive if the goal is truly to inform/educate. I think some people may be unreachable, but I'd still calmly and politely them that I disagree, and move on with my life.