So you're presuming he had a mental break and we're just assuming he's a traitor because service members have no time for that.
I was just asking a general question, because the closest I've ever gotten to the military was dating a hot airman for a brief second. I'm trying to understand why the military community is reacting so strongly to this when he was just released and there hasn't been much time to process the situation.
The details about the circumstances surrounding his capture are five years old. Word spreads rather quickly in the military in the first place. But you give it five years and the details pretty much move to all corners. The unit he came from had a lot of people in it and those people have moved to various posts a few times. They went to training. They went to school. They moved into teaching positions on posts, etc. So the story got around.
In many ways, the military is like the police or other protect and serve occupations. But in this, they are unique. Cops in Miami don't know what it's like to be PD in Detroit. Chances are pretty good a Miami cop might never meet a Detroit detective. But because of the way military members move around, many people have experiences with other bases, other units and these stories get around.
If they don't know someone who knows someone with some kind of involvement, they at least know how those posts operate and know that the story of him losing his mind and meandering off post is shady as hell.
I'd trust habs on this more than me since army and af can be culturally quite different. Plus there's an enlisted/officer divide in viewpoints quite often.
I am in the Army and do not have a positive viewpoint on how the average infantryman handles mental issues.
My trainers have up until this point been almost exclusively infantry and there's a lot of, "Don't have girly feelings" to members of both sexes. And that's from enlisted and officer.
You don't have a positive viewpoint on the military period so, you know.
In general, what is the military view of mental health breakdowns?
It varies. In general, the military is much better now at addressing mental health issues than they ever have been in the past, but you can definitely still encounter the attitude that people just need to "man up" and get over it.
I am obviously only speaking from my own point of view here. You can see the variability just from the other responses in this thread.
Also, he had been in the military less than a year. He went to OSUT at Benning which is my most recent station, and you're not even allowed physical issues let alone mental issues in TRADOC.
No one military in my FB feed is saying anything negative about us getting him.
OSUT = instead of basic, followed by a training school specifically for his job, he went through an incoming training program that included both. TRADOC merely refers to training.
If they don't know someone who knows someone with some kind of involvement, they at least know how those posts operate and know that the story of him losing his mind and meandering off post is shady as hell.
I get this, but isn't it a bit like playing telephone? Everyone thinks they know that the "Flag flies at midnight" but really "The gag flew out of sight." or something. Everyone thinks they have an inside scoop about what happened.
If they don't know someone who knows someone with some kind of involvement, they at least know how those posts operate and know that the story of him losing his mind and meandering off post is shady as hell.
I get this, but isn't it a bit like playing telephone? Everyone thinks they know that the "Flag flies at midnight" but really "The gag flew out of sight." or something. Everyone thinks they have an inside scoop about what happened.
It's no inside scoop to know that one cannot simply wander off a post during a deployment. It's not like getting drunk and ending up naked and in the neighbor's pool.
As to the rest, yeah, I can see why it's difficult to understand but no, it's not like playing telephone. Obviously no one has the entire story but I don't think it's really all that odd, unexpected or what have you for plenty of people to have served with guys who were in this unit or in one of the support units that has some knowledge of what happened.
plus six people died looking for this guy did he deserve it it's ridiculous...leave no man behind thinking. he may have chosen to leave them behind.
I think it takes enormous hubris to get all hot and bothered by a "deserter" when we (with a few VERY narrow exceptions) don't know the first goddamn thing about what it is like to fight in combat, much less combat in Afghanistan, which my lay-person-mind can only vaguely understand as "fucked up." I will not get on the rhetoric bandwagon with the deserter v. hero bullshit. The man was a soldier and a POW. Those things are not debatable. Attempting a determination of whether his actions were justified or not (especially since we have only the most superficial understanding of even what the fuck happened, to whom, and when) is more than I have the authority to comment on. And even if I were interested in trying to piece together or intellectually understand some kind of sequence of events in terms of his leaving his squad (I don't know if that's the right word), I think I'd be using extremely tempered vocabulary in terms of discussing what he "deserved" or what kind of person he must be or even whether what he did was justified or not. I simply cannot conceive of the mental and emotional trauma these men and women are enduring. And considering the condition that many of them are coming back in, I think the only thing I am qualified to say about the way they deal with the trauma is, "Thank God that's not me."
So frankly, I think the apparent debate about whether he was "worth" getting back is pretty disgusting given the "privilege" most of us exist in when it comes to the trauma of combat.
There is NEVER a justification for walking away from your post. He put the rest of the men in his company at risk. He left a letter behind which is on record admitting he was leaving - along with some negative comments about the US. 6 men were killed searching for him. The men in his company are 100% in agreement about him, (they can now speak freely after his release) . There are thousands of men and women who have experienced the horrors and trauma of war - and fulfill their duty. You do not quit and walk away. He was not a POW in the traditional sense - he went to find the Taliban and there are questions if he was also a collaborator. The whole exchange was poorly handled - we will regret the day Obama released the "Gitmo Dream Team" -
Maybe McCain thinks one American life is worth the sacrifice. Wow, this article says he was traded for five. I swear I had heard/read two before. I do appreciate him voicing his opinion on this:
But one broad Republican concern that McCain does not share is the legality of President Barack Obama’s actions. Several senior Republicans have complained that Obama broke the law by not notifying Congress of his actions to free Bergdahl — but this is not a sentiment shared by McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam.
“I may be a little bit of a departure here from the normal Republican,” he said. “I don’t think that Congress should be legislating that kind of constraint on the commander in chief.”
People are upset about Obama not giving the 30 day notice of Gitmo prisoner release to congress. Diane Fienstien (D) is pissed along with a number of other Democrats - this is a bi - partisan complaint. Prisoner swap yes, I would support that- but 5 top Taliban for one Sargent ?
This is all no big deal. We can always go back and get them if they start causing a ruckus. I mean, they're just Taliban. We always know where they are and what they're doing. Plus, next time we'll get 5 guys for their one.
I'm curious to know if he tried to go home in legit ways. But then I honestly don't believe he was trying to go home. A service member can't just hop a flight to America at the Kandahar airport.
I think it takes enormous hubris to get all hot and bothered by a "deserter" when we (with a few VERY narrow exceptions) don't know the first goddamn thing about what it is like to fight in combat, much less combat in Afghanistan, which my lay-person-mind can only vaguely understand as "fucked up." I will not get on the rhetoric bandwagon with the deserter v. hero bullshit. The man was a soldier and a POW. Those things are not debatable. Attempting a determination of whether his actions were justified or not (especially since we have only the most superficial understanding of even what the fuck happened, to whom, and when) is more than I have the authority to comment on. And even if I were interested in trying to piece together or intellectually understand some kind of sequence of events in terms of his leaving his squad (I don't know if that's the right word), I think I'd be using extremely tempered vocabulary in terms of discussing what he "deserved" or what kind of person he must be or even whether what he did was justified or not. I simply cannot conceive of the mental and emotional trauma these men and women are enduring. And considering the condition that many of them are coming back in, I think the only thing I am qualified to say about the way they deal with the trauma is, "Thank God that's not me."
So frankly, I think the apparent debate about whether he was "worth" getting back is pretty disgusting given the "privilege" most of us exist in when it comes to the trauma of combat.
There is NEVER a justification for walking away from your post. He put the rest of the men in his company at risk. He left a letter behind which is on record admitting he was leaving - along with some negative comments about the US. 6 men were killed searching for him. The men in his company are 100% in agreement about him, (they can now speak freely after his release) . There are thousands of men and women who have experienced the horrors and trauma of war - and fulfill their duty. You do not quit and walk away. He was not a POW in the traditional sense - he went to find the Taliban and there are questions if he was also a collaborator. The whole exchange was poorly handled - we will regret the day Obama released the "Gitmo Dream Team" -
Bowe Bergdahl is not a deserter. He was missing in action (MIA), then he was a prisoner of war (POW). You may recognize those acronyms from the black and white flag that you see on bikers and military bases. Today, he is a combat veteran and former POW.
I also hold a personal believe that he deserted, but that has not yet been determined. In spite of the froth-at-the-mouth theocratic conservatism found in most of my fellow military members, the vast majority agree with the price and the manner of his recovery. If we determine that he deserted, then he will be punished for that crime.
The military will always have problems addressing mental health. They really need to kick people out who have severe mental health problems. We give young kids big guns and explosives and let them loose on the world. To get the necessary recruits over the past decade, we relaxed the standards to allow violent criminals and borderline MMR kids into military service (at least in the Army). We knew that they were broken already, and we put them in stressful situations with guns. We knew about the toll from PTSD, but we kept sending them back into combat. Crisis leadership is kicking people in the ass until everyone goes in the same direction, so we promoted the most uncompromising leaders. We all know Bergdahl's name now, but what about the five servicemembers and ten veterans that committed suicide this week? Start asking about them.
The military will always have problems addressing mental health. They really need to kick people out who have severe mental health problems. We give young kids big guns and explosives and let them loose on the world. To get the necessary recruits over the past decade, we relaxed the standards to allow violent criminals and borderline MMR kids into military service (at least in the Army). We knew that they were broken already, and we put them in stressful situations with guns. We knew about the toll from PTSD, but we kept sending them back into combat. Crisis leadership is kicking people in the ass until everyone goes in the same direction, so we promoted the most uncompromising leaders. We all know Bergdahl's name now, but what about the five servicemembers and ten veterans that committed suicide this week? Start asking about them.
I guess the real bitch is finding the line between "severe" mental health issues and acceptable mental health issues that can be addressed through intervention.
Because if someone becomes aware of mounting anxiety or depression, they aren't going to access resources like meds or counseling if they might be at risk for discharge. So maybe a mild problem goes untreated and festers into a big problem.
But I agree about sending PTSD troops back into combat. It's a recipe for disaster.
Again, the lines are murky, because that's the nature of mental illness.
I think it's unrealistic to expect one conversation with a team leader to yield immediate results. Also, do we know how that conversation went? From what I understand, he'd been making pie in the sky plans for months, talking about joining the French foreign legion, hiking to China, or whatever. If he didn't threaten to harm himself or someone else, then I don't see why it's all that surprising that the conversation had not yet lead to anything in a day.
I think it's unrealistic to expect one conversation with a team leader to yield immediate results. Also, do we know how that conversation went? From what I understand, he'd been making pie in the sky plans for months, talking about joining the French foreign legion, hiking to China, or whatever. If he didn't threaten to harm himself or someone else, then I don't see why it's all that surprising that the conversation had not yet lead to anything in a day.
There are a ton of bullshitters in the military. Guys who will claim they were in serious firefights, who plan to start a business when they get out, who swear they are the baddest guy in the planet, are totally going to warrant school as soon as the paperwork comes through, could have been in OCS but turned it down, will hike the Himalayas, etc. So I'd need more info before I became worried.
Point of fact is he may very well be one of the only people to have ever just walked off a post during a deployment in the last ten years. So I'm sure people just thought he was talking smack.
Hey, maybe it's just my perception but man, your posts are an odd blend of hoorah combined with hatred for every corner of the military itself. You love the honor and the creed, the pomp and the circumstance but at every available opportunity, you state your belief that it is the worst place ever.
I just remember her taking years to join/enlist.Now,by years on pandce land, it was probably more like months. I just remember the consistent tlk of misogyny. That's all I got...I hope it doesn't come across as an attack.
I think it takes enormous hubris to get all hot and bothered by a "deserter" when we (with a few VERY narrow exceptions) don't know the first goddamn thing about what it is like to fight in combat, much less combat in Afghanistan, which my lay-person-mind can only vaguely understand as "fucked up." I will not get on the rhetoric bandwagon with the deserter v. hero bullshit. The man was a soldier and a POW. Those things are not debatable. Attempting a determination of whether his actions were justified or not (especially since we have only the most superficial understanding of even what the fuck happened, to whom, and when) is more than I have the authority to comment on. And even if I were interested in trying to piece together or intellectually understand some kind of sequence of events in terms of his leaving his squad (I don't know if that's the right word), I think I'd be using extremely tempered vocabulary in terms of discussing what he "deserved" or what kind of person he must be or even whether what he did was justified or not. I simply cannot conceive of the mental and emotional trauma these men and women are enduring. And considering the condition that many of them are coming back in, I think the only thing I am qualified to say about the way they deal with the trauma is, "Thank God that's not me."
So frankly, I think the apparent debate about whether he was "worth" getting back is pretty disgusting given the "privilege" most of us exist in when it comes to the trauma of combat.
There is NEVER a justification for walking away from your post. He put the rest of the men in his company at risk. He left a letter behind which is on record admitting he was leaving - along with some negative comments about the US. 6 men were killed searching for him. The men in his company are 100% in agreement about him, (they can now speak freely after his release) . There are thousands of men and women who have experienced the horrors and trauma of war - and fulfill their duty. You do not quit and walk away. He was not a POW in the traditional sense - he went to find the Taliban and there are questions if he was also a collaborator. The whole exchange was poorly handled - we will regret the day Obama released the "Gitmo Dream Team" -
I have stayed out of this post because one of my best friends is Army and is extremely close to this situation.
Lys, you must know someone in his company to say they're all 100% in agreement on him, right? That's impressive that you can speak for an entire company of soldiers.