James Dobson: No Sleepovers 'cuz Child Molesters

[debatethis]

WTAF.
www.challies.com/articles/why-my-family-doesnt-do-sleepovers
Why My Family Doesn't Do Sleepovers
June 27, 2014

James Dobson believes that children should not participate in sleepovers. The world has changed, he says, and has become too dangerous to allow your children out of your sight for so long. In his book Bringing Up Girls, he says:

Sadly, the world has changed in the last few decades, and it is no longer a safe place for children. Pedophiles and child molesters are more pervasive than ever. That is why parents must be diligent to protect their kids every hour of the day and night. …

Until you have dealt with little victims as I have and seen the pain in their eyes, you might not fully appreciate the devastation inflicted by molestation. It casts a long shadow on everything that follows, including future marital relationships. Therefore, parents have to think the unthinkable in every situation. The threat can come from anywhere—including neighbors, uncles, stepfathers, grandfathers, Sunday school teachers, coaches, music instructors, Scout leaders, and babysitters. Even public bathrooms can be dangerous today…

He believes the threat is so pervasive that parents should not allow their children to participate in sleepovers. I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing.

I agree with the nature of his concerns. Before my children were even old enough to ask, Aileen and I talked it through and decided we would not allow our kids to do sleepovers. Now let’s be clear: there is no biblical command that forbids them, so this was not a matter of clear right and wrong, but a matter of attempting to act with wisdom. We determined we would make it a family rule: Our children would not be allowed to spend the night at their friends’ homes. We believed they would face a particular kind of vulnerability if they found themselves alone and in bed outside our care, and we wanted to protect them from it. So they have stayed at their grandparents’ and have stayed with my sisters when we’ve visited the South, but they have not stayed at friend’s homes. (Note: My son is fourteen and we have now relaxed the rule with him, though permission is still dependent on circumstances.)

The reason we drew the rule so firmly was that it removes exceptions and explanations. We know ourselves well and realized that if we drew up a list of exceptions we would inevitably broaden that list over time. Not only that, but we did not want to have to explain to a family why we allowed our children to stay with others but not with them. So sleepovers were just taken right off the table without exceptions or individual explanations.

In this way I agree with Dobson that there is wisdom in avoiding sleepovers. But here’s where I disagree: that the risk is that much higher today than it was decades ago.

Aileen and I made our decision based largely on experience and observation of what happened around us when we were young. We made this decision because even in our youth—decades ago—we saw plenty of evidence of the dangers inherent in sleepovers.

When I was young I had some bad experiences with sleepovers. Nothing devastating happened to me, but I did learn that sleepovers bring a certain vulnerability and that children often behave foolishly in these circumstances. Before long my family came to know the local chief of police and he told us that if he had learned anything in his many years of law enforcement it was this: Don’t let your kids sleep over. As I got older I learned of several people I knew who had been taken advantage of during sleepovers, and it wasn’t a perverse father in most cases, but a predatory older brother or sister or cousin. Sometimes it was even the friend himself. The world was plenty dangerous back then and children were just as vulnerable, but somehow these things weren’t talked about as they are today.

As Aileen and I considered all of this and weighed it in our minds, we decided that the benefits of sleepovers did not outweigh the risks.

Denny Burk writes, “Parents must be as wise as serpents and innocent as doves when figuring out the best way to protect children from both. Moreover, parents will often have to pursue principles that might seem strange to the rest of the world but which are the only rational responses to very real and potential threats to children.” Burk believes we need to challenge the assumption of sleepover-as-norm, and I quite agree. Do not allow yourself to feel pressured into sleepovers simply because it is what parents have always done. Instead, consider the issues and come to a conclusion that is right for your family and your context.

I would be interested to know: Do you allow sleepovers? Why or why not?

[wawa]

Why in the world are these people so sure that child molestation is more prevalent now? Do they really think it didn't happen back in the "good old days"? You know...back when we didn't talk about these things and children were to be seen and not heard?

[cattledogkisses]

Did you see the debate about this on ML (it was awhile ago)? There were a number of posters who said their child(ren) won't be allowed to do sleepovers for this reason.

I think that's a bit extreme, myself.

[lasagnasshole]

Sadly, the world has changed in the last few decades, and it is no longer a safe place for children. Pedophiles and child molesters are more pervasive than ever. That is why parents must be diligent to protect their kids every hour of the day and night. …

That is bullshit. There is more AWARENESS of the sexual abuse of children now. And I do commend the author of this particular piece for calling Dobson out on that absurdity.

On the bright side, at least he's recognizing that children are most likely to be harmed by someone they know and trust rather than the random gay dude down the street? Trying to find a silver lining here.

[debatethis]

Jul 8, 2014 13:50:31 GMT -5 wawa said:

Why in the world are these people so sure that child molestation is more prevalent now? Do they really think it didn't happen back in the "good old days"? You know...back when we didn't talk about these things and children were to be seen and not heard?

It's actually drastically down: www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/us/rate-of-child-sexual-abuse-on-the-decline.html?_r=0

Oh, and let's not forget that James Dobson has extolled the virtues of the Boy Scounts - you know, that group who's hidden numerous cases of sexual abuse.

[Deleted]

#notallmen

[Deleted]

I sent my kids to overnight camp secure in the knowledge that they would be super safe. They are in a cabin with 11 other boys 1 CIT and 4 other male adult counselors/camp staff.

No counselor is allowed to be alone with a child. They need at least 2 kids or 2 adults 1 kid, etc.

I think this fear is crippling our children as they aren't allowed to form friendships/bonds with older adults

[downtoearth]

Okay, maybe I'm too relaxed, but sleepovers aren't the devil's work, are they?

I mean, yeah, you get excited and stay up late and play super hard, but they also are usually with people who are part of your community and who you, as a parent, are comfortable with. Plus, they exposed me to how other families live and so I could try other foods, see other parents interact, and experience a little outside my kid-world.

[Deleted]

I cannot imagine this risk has increased. Simply because people are more willing to talk about it now.

I never had any sketchy experiences at sleepovers and I think it taught me to be polite/considerate, independent and to deal with minorly stressful situations.

[CrazyLucky]

I saw a similar thing to this on facebook. A mom was very proud of herself for making this rule for her kids. Sure, they won't get to have the fun of sleeping over at a friend's house, but at least she's completely eliminated the chance that they will ever be molested. Right?

[downtoearth]

Jul 8, 2014 14:08:58 GMT -5 CrazyLucky said:

I saw a similar thing to this on facebook. A mom was very proud of herself for making this rule for her kids. Sure, they won't get to have the fun of sleeping over at a friend's house, but at least she's completely eliminated the chance that they will ever be molested. Right?

Oh and she's helping teach her kids that the world is scary and anyone not part of the family is probably out to get you.  I hope she only has family as FB friends... someone might not be related to her and might try to hurt her with words of reason.

[EloiseWeenie]

I was only allowed to sleepover if my parents knew the parents of my friend. I don't think that's unreasonable. I only remember a few friends who I wasn't allowed to sleepover with, and looking back I don't blame my parents.

[IIOY]

Jul 8, 2014 13:52:22 GMT -5 lasagnasshole said:

On the bright side, at least he's recognizing that children are most likely to be harmed by someone they know and trust rather than the random gay dude down the street? Trying to find a silver lining here.

This stood out to me as well.  He even mentioned Sunday school teachers and Scout leaders.

[taratru]

I am rolling my eyes SO HARD right now.

[erbear]

I worry more about letting my kids use a public restroom alone than sleeping over at a friend's house. It has not come up yet (they're not old enough) but they've done sleepovers at families' house and I haven't worried once about their being molested.

[ringstrue]

"So they have stayed at their grandparents’ and have stayed with my sisters when we’ve visited the South, but they have not stayed at friend’s homes."


So I guess this is a bad time to bring up that a molester is usually a family member?

[IIOY]

Jul 8, 2014 14:16:27 GMT -5 erbear said:

I worry more about letting my kids use a public restroom alone than sleeping over at a friend's house. It has not come up yet (they're not old enough) but they've done sleepovers at families' house and I haven't worried once about their being molested.

Why?

[lasagnasshole]

Jul 8, 2014 14:16:27 GMT -5 erbear said:

I worry more about letting my kids use a public restroom alone than sleeping over at a friend's house. It has not come up yet (they're not old enough) but they've done sleepovers at families' house and I haven't worried once about their being molested.

Hate to break it to you, but Johnny's dad is more likely to molest your kid's than a rando in a bathroom.

[erbear]

Jul 8, 2014 14:19:09 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Jul 8, 2014 14:16:27 GMT -5 erbear said:

I worry more about letting my kids use a public restroom alone than sleeping over at a friend's house. It has not come up yet (they're not old enough) but they've done sleepovers at families' house and I haven't worried once about their being molested.

Why?

No idea. It's the one place I don't like to let my kid (she's 5) go alone. I have no reason for it, but when she does go, I get a little panicky until she comes out.

I don't worry about my kid sleeping over at people's houses, but it's a moot point right now, because she doesn't.

[mrsukyankee]

What's happening is that due to knowing more about bad situations, our brains are making connections that there ARE MORE bad situations instead of recognising that in reality it's not true. (Lots of positive psychology studies about this)

[wrathofkuus]

People are making parenting decisions that are all about them and alleviating their anxieties, and not at all about the actual little people who are totally at their mercy. This is quite an abuse of the power of parenthood, and you best believe that these kids will at some point, earlier than they'd like to think, notice and lose trust in the supposed wisdom of adults.

[WOT?*]

My sister was molested in a parking lot of a church across the street from our house. By a stranger. More than 40 years ago.

Someone tried to kidnap my girls as they were walking to a park from XH's house. 20 years ago. The guy pulled over, said he was security from the 7-11 they'd just left and he needed them to get in his, so they ran back to the 7-11. This was a couple years after the school at our old apartment finally started bussing kindergarteners after a small child was kidnapped and killed en route to school. And we lived in a decent neighborhood at the time, or so we thought. (It's still considered a decent neighborhood.)

My son fell and cut open his head. A woman stopped to help and told him she'd drive him home. He said no, someone was on the way to get his dad and he'd wait where he was, with the other kids and people helping him. She waited so she could shake XH's hand and congratulate him for DS1's cool-headedness.

Nobody's tried to touch or take the grands. And I'm not always vigilant when they're playing on my street. IME, it was at least as likely to happen "back then" as it is now. So yes, they get to do sleep-overs. And play at friends' houses.  And in the field across the street.  And even in the street.  Educate them, don't incarcerate them.

[bluestreet]

Jul 8, 2014 14:13:37 GMT -5 EloiseWeenie said:

I was only allowed to sleepover if my parents knew the parents of my friend. I don't think that's unreasonable. I only remember a few friends who I wasn't allowed to sleepover with, and looking back I don't blame my parents.

That's us.  

I waited til my eldest was 10, after years of open conversations about what's okay and not okay, including the vaguer territories (what if someone wants you to sit on his lap, or just watch a movie with sex, or if a 14-year-old brother is hanging out and saying weird shit, etc.).  So many of the people in my life who were molested were molested by a brother or cousin, rather than the stereotypical uncle with tinted glasses (though a few of those too...sigh). 

If I don't know the family well, we let our 10-year-old stay til 10 and then pick her up.

[penguingrrl]

Jul 8, 2014 15:55:15 GMT -5 WOT?* said:

My sister was molested in a parking lot of a church across the street from our house. By a stranger. More than 40 years ago.

Someone tried to kidnap my girls as they were walking to a park from XH's house. 20 years ago. The guy pulled over, said he was security from the 7-11 they'd just left and he needed them to get in his, so they ran back to the 7-11. This was a couple years after the school at our old apartment finally started bussing kindergarteners after a small child was kidnapped and killed en route to school. And we lived in a decent neighborhood at the time, or so we thought. (It's still considered a decent neighborhood.)

My son fell and cut open his head. A woman stopped to help and told him she'd drive him home. He said no, someone was on the way to get his dad and he'd wait where he was, with the other kids and people helping him. She waited so she could shake XH's hand and congratulate him for DS1's cool-headedness.

Nobody's tried to touch or take the grands. And I'm not always vigilant when they're playing on my street. IME, it was at least as likely to happen "back then" as it is now. So yes, they get to do sleep-overs. And play at friends' houses.  And in the field across the street.  And even in the street.  Educate them, don't incarcerate them.

Quoting because I can't "like" it more than once! Everything I've read suggests that kids today are less likely to become victims than they were 20-30-40 years ago because people are paying more attention. Children are better taught how to handle dangerous situations and people are listening when kids speak up and say someone did something. If anything I think it's a much safer world than it once was for kids. I let my older two play in our non-fenced yard without me all the time. They are starting to wander up and down the street a bit and I'm glad for that (as long as they follow my rules when doing so to avoid being the neighborhood annoyances). 

[ECB]

If we really stopped doing X because of Y, we'd all never EVER leave our houses, EVER.

But, wait, that doesn't work either.  

"Random person who I don't know got into a car accident. I better not drive again or *I* might get in an accident."

"Random person was struck by lightening. I better not go outside.".

"Random person died of carbon monoxide poisoning in their home. I better leave my house.... oh... wait".

[Michelle]

Jul 8, 2014 16:35:28 GMT -5 ECB said:

If we really stopped doing X because of Y, we'd all never EVER leave our houses, EVER.

But, wait, that doesn't work either.  

"Random person who I don't know got into a car accident. I better not drive again or *I* might get in an accident."

"Random person was struck by lightening. I better not go outside.".

"Random person died of carbon monoxide poisoning in their home. I better leave my house.... oh... wait".

my neighbor's house had a hole blown in its roof and all electronics plugged into the walls were fried when lightening struck it last week.

If the kids had been in their bedrooms they may have been electrocuted.

OMG THERE IS NO WHERE THAT IS SAFE!!!

Andplusalso, who wants to grow up in bubble wrap?

[IIOY]

Jul 8, 2014 17:45:34 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

On a tangent, I didn't do sleepovers outside of family because I never wanted to be in someone else's house that long.

ETA: And I didn't have people sleeping over my house either. Because I need for you to not be here when I wake up. I have been old and crotchety for a long long time.

We were separated at birth.

[thejackpot]

I know I have been away too long because until I started reading the responses I thought this was Antoine Dodson and I was like he already told people to hide their kids, this should be no biggie

To the pt, I am not a fan of sleepovers cause I have no desire to hosst a bunch of littles.

[overture]

What is wrong with explaining to your kid that "you can sleep over at X's house, but not Y's, because we don't know Y's parents well enough?"

What is wrong with adding exceptions to your rules as your kids get older? Presumably your kids mature as they age, right?

I agree this is a total cop out. Why explain shit to your kids when you can just repeat ill-conceived rules at them?

[readyin07]

I am a total freak on a message board I am on bc my bigger concern is that no one will want my kid to sleepover or let their kid stay at our house. My mom is the biggest most overprotective freak and even she let me spend the night out (though to be honest I always wanted to stay at my house). I feel like an asshole saying this but bad things happen. Of course I will take every possible reasonable precaution to make sure my kids are safe, but I can't micromanage their lives out of fear. My life was that way and it has been to my detriment. I want better for my kids. I woukd guess more kids are hurt in car accidents than are molested at sleepovers and yet we still drive...now as they get older there are different fears like drinking, drugs and sex which seem to occur around sleepovers (I know a little about that lol) but we will cross that bridge when we come to it.