My issue with her descriptors, actually, is that she herself is continuing to perpetuate the stereotypes and stigmas associated with assistance. There are a lot of people in this country eligible for assistance but pride or lack of knowledge or fear prevents them from seeking it out.Â
By her basically saying that she was the only person who looked like her, by her description making it sound like she was walking down to the gates of Mordor, how many people is she helping? Who is she convincing that it's OK to need help sometimes and ask for it?Â
She's also perpetuating the stereotype that the vast majority of people on welfare are Other. THEY are people who are trapped in a cycle of poverty and are here every week. SHE is someone who temporarily lost her income and had to rely on food stamps, and it's great that they are available, but it's not her NORMAL circumstance. So it reinforces the view that most people who use social welfare services don't try hard, aren't educated, are unemployed, and are on welfare for life, when in reality, the vast majority of people using food stamps ARE like her.
I'm clearly the minority, but I took away the opposite message. It didn't reinforce a view that it's only Other who fall on hard times, it reminded me that it happens to the people driving the Mercedes.
Post by twodogsandababy on Jul 10, 2014 11:08:41 GMT -5
I'm posting from my phone while feeding the baby, so this won't be worded like I really want, but this is something I have been thinking about a lot lately.
Sometimes shit just happens. You can think you are doing what you are supposed to and trying to plan for the future, but life doesn't work out like you planned.
We worked hard to pay off a lot of stupid consumer debt we had. I worked two jobs and we watched every penny for two years. We even rented out our spare room in our tiny 800 square ft condo for extra money. After about 5 years we had paid off everything and had a decent savings. H was deployed a lot and there has been people on our patio at night and our condo wasn't safe for DS and I. There were construction defects and HOA lawsuits, so we can't sell. We were fortunate enough to find decent renters and be able to find a foreclosed house to buy. We made sure we could afford both the condo and house on just H's income and still be okay just in case we couldn't find a renter. H was advancing quickly and we thought for sure his career was safe. Then a year after we moved into our house I got a call that H was being air lifted from deployment to an Army hospital in Germany. I was torn between wanting him home because I hadn't seen him in so long and wanting to go back to deployment because if he came home that meant something was seriously wrong with him. After two weeks they sent him to Walter Reed for a month before finally sending him home to continue care. We are now waiting for the VA to determine what benefits he will receive when he is medically separated. Because no one knows when he will be getting out he is having a hard time finding a job. He does have a few good leads, but they need dates.
We have almost a year in savings and continue to stock away as much as we can. We know that if we need to we can tap into retirement accounts. We know that we are extremely fortunate to be in this situation where we can plan for it and have been careful in the past. We also know that anything could happen and H could get sick again and not be able to work, or it could take longer than our savings to find a job. I've been looking for a new job that pays more.
Shortly after we moved in to our house the previous owners came back and told me they had lost their jobs and were sad to have to leave the house. I don't know their circumstances but it has always stuck with me that that could easily be anyone, including us.
My issue with her descriptors, actually, is that she herself is continuing to perpetuate the stereotypes and stigmas associated with assistance. There are a lot of people in this country eligible for assistance but pride or lack of knowledge or fear prevents them from seeking it out.
By her basically saying that she was the only person who looked like her, by her description making it sound like she was walking down to the gates of Mordor, how many people is she helping? Who is she convincing that it's OK to need help sometimes and ask for it?
She's also perpetuating the stereotype that the vast majority of people on welfare are Other. THEY are people who are trapped in a cycle of poverty and are here every week. SHE is someone who temporarily lost her income and had to rely on food stamps, and it's great that they are available, but it's not her NORMAL circumstance. So it reinforces the view that most people who use social welfare services don't try hard, aren't educated, are unemployed, and are on welfare for life, when in reality, the vast majority of people using food stamps ARE like her.
I agree with this--she lost me at talking about walking in her heels from her Mercedes while "they" were struggling with their infant carriers and toddlers. She had an H at home to watch her kids. Who would bring their kids to such a filthy place right? I grew up poor, so to me its like she's saying "they" belong here, I don't, and I won't be here long because she's "better" than this--she has an education, connections and her H does too.
ETA - after reading others' responses in this thread, I think my take away is that this can happen to most anyone at any time. You never know what circumstances will befall you, whether it's medical issues or job loss or disability, or all of those at once.
She's also perpetuating the stereotype that the vast majority of people on welfare are Other. THEY are people who are trapped in a cycle of poverty and are here every week. SHE is someone who temporarily lost her income and had to rely on food stamps, and it's great that they are available, but it's not her NORMAL circumstance. So it reinforces the view that most people who use social welfare services don't try hard, aren't educated, are unemployed, and are on welfare for life, when in reality, the vast majority of people using food stamps ARE like her.
As someone who is where she has been (similar but slightly different scenario. I'm sick, not just poor. lol), I understand her need to "other". "Othering" is human nature, often not conscious or intentional--and she's right in that it's almost always about that person's fears and not about the "others", because it usually doesn't matter who the "others" are as long as they aren't you. I'm not talking about actual prejudice but the fear that comes with having to acknowledge and accept the things that have lead you to where you are, and that sometimes even when you try your hardest, even when you have the advantage, things can be taken from you in an instant. It's a harder landing when you fall from farther up, I've come to understand, than when you are already on the ground. Not that it's worse to have her circumstances than having always been poor, etc. but that the shock and perceived loss can feel really intense, and if you're not used to coping and dealing with it, it can seem worse.
It really *is* weird having your looks/lifestyle and your actual circumstances/status be so seemingly contradictory. It *is* weird not "fitting in" to a stereotype -- the people who do fit often judge you for not being like them or being better than them, and the people outside also judge you for not being as good as they are. I mean, I've been told before that I "don't look disabled" -- well, I do have all of my limbs and I don't ride around in a wheelchair anymore. lol Never said in a mean way, I don't think, but more so in a ...surprised?...way? I don't know. But it's funny because I doubt many people leave the house *trying* to look sick, or poor for that matter.
That being said, I did find this article funny, in its dramatics and descriptors. Over the years, GBCN has posted many of these kinds of stories and I've read a lot of them, and they are almost always a "harrowing tale of a wealthy white woman having to overcome the tragedy that has befallen her (with a stiff upper lip ((perfectly lined and glossed, of course))".
I guess my main point is that it's hard to find yourself in a situation where you have become the "other" -- the "other" just being the opposite of who you were before, whatever that was, and then to feel like you don't belong and/or are being judged for it.
The day I stepped into the unemployment office and very much stood out (I was a minority in several ways) was very shocking to me. It's weird. Very, very weird. The stares burned through me-or so it seemed. That period of my life very much changed me, my perspective, and my marriage. It's a hard fall going from being comfortable to losing your comfort-job, self-worth, etc. Walking into places where you never dreamed of walking into because you weren't going to be "that" person is a very humbling experience. I was lucky-DH still had a job, we could make ends meet, but it was a very difficult time.
I can't get hung up on the minor details that people are picking on. The message very much rings true to me.
ETA - after reading others' responses in this thread, I think my take away is that this can happen to most anyone at any time. You never know what circumstances will befall you, whether it's medical issues or job loss or disability, or all of those at once.
Everyone in here have adequate disability coverage?? Just making sure. It could be the difference between making ends meet or not if you were to fall ill (much more likely than being in an accident and becoming disabled).
Post by Willis Jackson on Jul 10, 2014 12:04:13 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think she gets her own point. She doesn't know the stories of those "poverty-stricken" mothers. It's entirely possible that plenty of them have circumstances similar to her own.
It reminds me of when Piper's mother visited her in the one of the early episodes of Orange is the New Black and said something about her being nothing like the other women in prison. Piper was all, "Mom, I'm exactly like these women."
She comes across very self-centered, and like she definitely thinks she's better than all the OTHER moms receiving aid.
And while I won't judge her for not selling the Mercedes, she doesn't seem to understand how selling things works if she thinks her only option is to end up with a "less reliable car with payments." She could have sold the Mercedes for, say, $25k, bought a reliable used car for $10k, and pocketed the difference (and lowered her fuel and maintenance costs). I'm not sure how she doesn't seem to get that this was an option.
The maintenance costs is huge for me and the reason I wouldn't own a "luxury" vehicle. Even if it was an older Mercedes and she only got 13k or so for it, she could get an Accord for the same price that would have been newer with less miles and the maintenance costs would be cheaper since it doesn't have the name. I'm sure insurance would go down as well.
I was thinking the same thing, and was curious enough to look up the value. I clicked through the Kelley Blue Book options pretty quickly, but I was surprised it gave me a value of $5k, in Excellent condition.
Why? She was trying to show that even people who "look" like they shouldn't need WIC or food stamps sometimes do. That just because you see somebody in a nice car or nice clothes or who doesn't fulfill the stereotype of who "should" be getting these things it doesn't mean that they are somehow gaming the system, or don't deserve it or don't need it.
Because let's be honest, when you talk about somebody on food stamps the last thing that comes to anybody's mind is a tall blonde in heels with a Mercedes.
My issue with her descriptors, actually, is that she herself is continuing to perpetuate the stereotypes and stigmas associated with assistance. There are a lot of people in this country eligible for assistance but pride or lack of knowledge or fear prevents them from seeking it out.
By her basically saying that she was the only person who looked like her, by her description making it sound like she was walking down to the gates of Mordor, how many people is she helping? Who is she convincing that it's OK to need help sometimes and ask for it?
This is exactly my issue with it. Her tone is 'I was EVEN judged by the filthy people who BELONGED at this office'. I saw a story a few years ago about a family that fell on hard times as well and the woman was talking about how difficult it was to use food pantries when they used to be the ones donating. She felt ashamed and also wondered if she was being judged but the thing I remember most about her story was her saying that when they got back on their feet she would always bring name brand stuff to donate. Not that she would be rocking heels and still driving her mercedes.
I can't get hung up on her tone or other small details because I can relate.
I don't expect any different responses from MM though. Instead of focusing on how this could happen to anyone, people are picking apart tone / descriptors. People who have never experienced a day in a "poverty stricken" world.....
Those stares she's talking about I've felt them. And I'm a tall, black girl with a ford. People still have judged that I walk with my head high and heels on. Poverty breaks your spirit and if you dare to act like it doesn't you will be judged by those who have "succumbed" to it.
And yes, she did fall on hard times and is different than the women who will always be in a "poverty stricken" world. People judge when someone successful falls on hard times because they know eventually they'll get out. All those other women in the room know it is just another week at that grimy office.
ETA - I'm not calling out people or saying that posters here haven't experienced it. I'm posting my views in this discussion.
I can't get hung up on her tone or other small details because I can relate.
I don't expect any different responses from MM though. Instead of focusing on how this could happen to anyone, people are picking apart tone / descriptors. People who have never experienced a day in a "poverty stricken" world.....
Those stares she's talking about I've felt them. And I'm a tall, black girl with a ford. People still have judged that I walk with my head high and heels on. Poverty breaks your spirit and if you dare to act like it doesn't you will be judged by those who have "succumbed" to it.
And yes, she did fall on hard times and is different than the women who will always be in a "poverty stricken" world. People judge when someone successful falls on hard times because they know eventually they'll get out. All those other women in the room know it is just another week at that grimy office.
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I guess I can pick it apart all I want then because I have experienced it. I'm a tall blonde with a random vehicle also. Not a Mercedes. I was in and out of those offices and the only difference between me and anyone that was a career recepient was that I was doing something different. I had more of a problem with the case workers than anyone else in that office. You never know their circumstances and if they hoped to be on their own in the near future. However, the case workers judge everyone that walks in those doors and thinks we are all on the shit for life. They won't answer calls, they talk down to you, they don't give a damn if you request any appointment day except Wednesday morning since you have school (work can be rescheduled with notice). They act like you are an idiot when you mention numbers and you end up having to prove everything even when it's in the file and their job to know.
I can't get hung up on her tone or other small details because I can relate.
I don't expect any different responses from MM though. Instead of focusing on how this could happen to anyone, people are picking apart tone / descriptors. People who have never experienced a day in a "poverty stricken" world.....
Those stares she's talking about I've felt them. And I'm a tall, black girl with a ford. People still have judged that I walk with my head high and heels on. Poverty breaks your spirit and if you dare to act like it doesn't you will be judged by those who have "succumbed" to it.
And yes, she did fall on hard times and is different than the women who will always be in a "poverty stricken" world. People judge when someone successful falls on hard times because they know eventually they'll get out. All those other women in the room know it is just another week at that grimy office.
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I guess I can pick it apart all I want then because I have experienced it. I'm a tall blonde with a random vehicle also. Not a Mercedes. I was in and out of those offices and the only difference between me and anyone that was a career recepient was that I was doing something different. I had more of a problem with the case workers than anyone else in that office. You never know their circumstances and if they hoped to be on their own in the near future. However, the case workers judge everyone that walks in those doors and thinks we are all on the shit for life. They won't answer calls, they talk down to you, they don't give a damn if you request any appointment day except Wednesday morning since you have school (work can be rescheduled with notice). They act like you are an idiot when you mention numbers and you end up having to prove everything even when it's in the file and their job to know.
I'm sorry you had that experience.
I've never had a bad experience with anyone at these programs. I've always been treated kindly and with respect.
I also made sure to treat them with kindness and respect as I can't imagine how difficult their jobs can be.
I can't get hung up on her tone or other small details because I can relate.
I don't expect any different responses from MM though. Instead of focusing on how this could happen to anyone, people are picking apart tone / descriptors. People who have never experienced a day in a "poverty stricken" world.....
Those stares she's talking about I've felt them. And I'm a tall, black girl with a ford. People still have judged that I walk with my head high and heels on. Poverty breaks your spirit and if you dare to act like it doesn't you will be judged by those who have "succumbed" to it.
And yes, she did fall on hard times and is different than the women who will always be in a "poverty stricken" world. People judge when someone successful falls on hard times because they know eventually they'll get out. All those other women in the room know it is just another week at that grimy office.
I can't get hung up on her tone or other small details because I can relate.
I don't expect any different responses from MM though. Instead of focusing on how this could happen to anyone, people are picking apart tone / descriptors. People who have never experienced a day in a "poverty stricken" world.....
Those stares she's talking about I've felt them. And I'm a tall, black girl with a ford. People still have judged that I walk with my head high and heels on. Poverty breaks your spirit and if you dare to act like it doesn't you will be judged by those who have "succumbed" to it.
And yes, she did fall on hard times and is different than the women who will always be in a "poverty stricken" world. People judge when someone successful falls on hard times because they know eventually they'll get out. All those other women in the room know it is just another week at that grimy office.
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So since I've been there, can I still pick it apart?
I understand perfectly well how it could happen to anyone. I highly, highly doubt that anyone who met me now that didn't know me growing up and doesn't know my family would ever think that I grew up eating government cheese and WIC-approved cereal. Or that my parents frequently couldn't drive me places because they couldn't afford to put gas in our car. Or that I currently spend a good portion of my free time helping my mom and trying to manage the little money she does have so that she doesn't end up homeless or, (worse, lol), living with me. I've been there, done that, gotten the stares and incredulous looks. It's all the more reason that I have issues with this woman and her family (trust, her husband isn't blameless in this story).
Can I just say, who are these people who comment on how other people pay for groceries? I cannot imagine in a million years thinking less of someone for paying with WIC or food stamps, let alone saying something. Why say something? What does it accomplish?
Can I just say, who are these people who comment on how other people pay for groceries? I cannot imagine in a million years thinking less of someone for paying with WIC or food stamps, let alone saying something. Why say something? What does it accomplish?
Because they are assholes. They are the same people who post comments on newspaper articles online, the lowest form of humanity. They think the world cares what they have to say, and worse, they truly think other people agree with them. I think these kinds of people are genuinely shocked when they make these comments and people like the cashier in that article give it right back to them and make it known that they disagree. They also think that it's their tax dollars paying for the [insert SKITTLES/LOBSTER/STEAK/SODA here] and so they have a right to that opinion.
Agree that the tone here is definitely off - all the others are poverty-stricken but she is temporarily in a bad place, in he's and omgsoblondeandtall. And WTF re the Mercedes - they had two cars, right?
Wouldnt selling one to become a 1 car family - temporarily at least - in Boston which has plenty of public transport) just make sense? (Not judging, just thinking it would reduce costs in general?)
I know this wasn't posed to me, but if I can just jump in? I, personally, do not take issue with the fact that she thought people were staring at her or side-eying her--they may well have been. My issue is with the descriptors she used. The fact that she called the other women there "poverty-stricken" as if they were somehow worse off than her even though she doesn't know jack shit about anyone there, just like they didn't know her lyfe! It was THEIR grungy den, not our grungy den. They were struggling, while she was walking a la Naomi Campbell, with a purpose. I mean...really?? A grip...she needs to get one.
I have been a lurker here, and have found this discussion very interesting. I completely agree with this comment. I really enjoyed the article and think the "this could happen to anyone" message could have been so much more powerful if she didn't perpetuate the me/them language at the end.
Agree that the tone here is definitely off - all the others are poverty-stricken but she is temporarily in a bad place, in he's and omgsoblondeandtall. And WTF re the Mercedes - they had two cars, right?
Wouldnt selling one to become a 1 car family - temporarily at least - in Boston which has plenty of public transport) just make sense? (Not judging, just thinking it would reduce costs in general?)
Any transportation option other than a Mercedesis an unreliable death trap.
For supposed-to-be-rich white blond ladies that is. OK for the Poors.
Any transportation option other than a Mercedesis an unreliable death trap.
For supposed-to-be-rich white blond ladies that is. OK for the Poors.
It comes back to the psychological mindfuck of losing your job. It's HARD to process and even harder to let go of the physical things you're attached to in order to make ends meet. Plus, known vs. unknown. With her paid off car, they know the maintenance history. With a new-to-them used car, it could be a total lemon and need $$$ work immediately or two months down the road. In the land of unknowns and what-ifs when you lose a job and are struggling for income, it's even harder to psychologically let go of something known (your vehicle) for yet another unknown (maybe I can sell my car - how much would I get? - now I have to find a new car - what if it breaks down? - will it be reliable?) etc.
I'm pretty familiar with this concept as my H lost his job over a year ago. You know the upside? He has time to fix his damn car when it breaks.
Any transportation option other than a Mercedesis an unreliable death trap.
For supposed-to-be-rich white blond ladies that is. OK for the Poors.
It comes back to the psychological mindfuck of losing your job. It's HARD to process and even harder to let go of the physical things you're attached to in order to make ends meet. Plus, known vs. unknown. With her paid off car, they know the maintenance history. With a new-to-them used car, it could be a total lemon and need $$$ work immediately or two months down the road. In the land of unknowns and what-ifs when you lose a job and are struggling for income, it's even harder to psychologically let go of something known (your vehicle) for yet another unknown (maybe I can sell my car - how much would I get? - now I have to find a new car - what if it breaks down? - will it be reliable?) etc.
I get that it's hard to process and hard to give up things. I've dealt with a layoff before. And this is such a nit-picky part of the article, but it leads her to being yet another non-sympathetic example.
But they had not one, but two, paid off cars. One of them being a not-particularly-old Mercedes. They could have sold it and bought a very reliable car pretty easily. No one is suggesting they should have sold the Mercedes and bought a $500 clunker. But when your current salary is <$25k and your car is potentially worth as much or more than that, it's time to re-evaluate keeping the damn car.
It is a good reminder that it can happen to anyone. I had a co-worker who basically lost everything and she refused to give up her very expensive car (that was also a hobby car). They went from being a double income family with a full time nanny, to both losing their jobs, losing their house, having to move to a different state and stay with family, then take entry level jobs that weren't enough to live on and pay for child care, but phased them out a lot of financial assistance. She even sold her engagement ring and replaced it with something simple and 1/10th the price. It took a couple years but they got back on their feet and she still has that car.
Later, the same thing happened to us. DH and I were both laid off in the same year. You burn through savings and you keep thinking any day one of you will get a job and it will be fine, so it can be hard to make a big change that you don't want to do. We've both had jobs for a while again and we are still recovering financially.
I was surprised the authors combined income was so low in the first place and that her DH owned the Mercedes.
This neither here nor there, but I just looked up a random KBB for a 6 year old Mercedes C-Class Sedan with an average of 12k miles per year. It's roughly 10k for private party sale in excellent condition.