Am I being unfair?

[ECB]

Jul 17, 2014 7:19:29 GMT -5 barefootcontessa said:

Honestly, your DH sounds like a bit of a jerk. It sounds like you are overwhelmed as it is and he is pushing for another child and at the same time refusing to consider moving just because he does not want to? No way would I have another child if my DH acted like that.

I also love the irony.  The person who is away from the house most of the time, who doesn't do most of the childcare OR housework - he's the one who wants a 3rd kid.  Yeah, sure, it's easy to say "let's have a 3rd" when it really won't alter your day to day life ALL that much.

But for the person who is in the trenches w/ the kids every day?  It's an entirely different story.  And for the fact that he doesn't seem to see this, to "get this" - I'm a little jaw on the floor about it. 

ETA;  The word came to me.  For him to really not understand what your life is like and how hard it is to do it on your own - it shows a huge lack of empathy on his part. Huge.

As for needing/wanting/expecting help - I think those of us who do have help, we're appreciate of it and I know for myself, I didn't expect near the level of help I've gotten.  But as I have it, it's WONDERFUL.  And I only have one kid!

And speaking of the village, I'm SO thankful I moved into the neighborhood that I did.  I have quite a few friends now who have kids the same age and we all pitch in and help each other out when we can.  No one abuses it, no one needs help a ton, but the times it's come up here and there - it's great to know that there are people a block away who will help if they can. 

[fbf2006]

Jul 17, 2014 7:30:40 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

I live 5 min from my mom and it is fucking blissful. She watches them so I can go to the grocery store alone, buys 80% of their clothes, and babysits.

I don't "expect" the help from my parents but it is really great how much they are there for us.

It is a little harsh to say OP expects someone to help raise them. Of course it'd be easier to live close to family if you know they are willing to help.

I actually don't mind this. Yes, if my family all lived in the same city, we would all help raise our kids. I'm from Nigeria, that's just how it is sometimes. Kids are not raised in a vacuum. If the grandparents happen to live close by and are retired (as my parents are), most of them think helping out is their right lol. It can actually get annoying. I don't live back home but my mum was here to help for 5 months when I had my son. She'd even have been here longer if our circumstance didn't change.  

[megs193]

Jul 17, 2014 6:37:45 GMT -5 twolittlecheers said:

Maybe this sounds harsh but I didn't have children and expect help to raise them. I think that is an issue with most people, they expect grandparents to step in and be there but that's not fair to grandparents. They already raised their children they shouldn't be expected to raise ours.
That being said my Dh travels a lot too. I'm home all the time by myself and we don't have any family or friend help but that is ok. They are my children, I take responsibility for them.
I think that either you want a 3rd or you don't. It sounds like you are comfortable with the 2 you already have and that your family feels complete.

I definitely don't expect my mom to "raise" them but I do think it is good for kids to know that there are other people they can rely on. My mom is a very hands on grandparent and wants to spend more time with them. She is the one who has offered help if we move back. I would never use her in place of daycare but it would be amazing to have support when I am sick, if one of my kids is really sick or if I was just at my breaking point. I have been taking 100% responsibility for them since the day they were born and I don't think it would make me any less of a parent to let a willing grandparent take over 10% of that responsibility.

[redheadk]

Holy crap people, if daycare does not raise your kids, then occasional help from grandma doesn't mean she's raising your kids either. Wtf.

[leonard131]

I don't think it was shitty at all. Maybe I am bias because we don't have ANY family support and don't really ever have the option. With just having one I feel it so I can't imagine what it would be like with 3.

I get that you shouldn't expect grandparents to raise your kids for you but there is something different with being with family even if you are still 100% responsible for you children. It can just be opportunity to interact with others. Given the OP said her husband travels quite it bit knowing you could pop over to your sisters or mother to chat and have some adult interaction could make a long week of dealing with solo parenting easier.

[minzy]

I get what you are saying, but it sounds like your delivery could have been better.  Although the support in your mind is related to both, can you try to separate the issues of moving and having another? 

I really get it though.  Two little kids with no real local support and a spouse who is out of town a lot is a TON of work. Parents of 3+ children might laugh, but I often feel like I am just treading water this first year with 2 kids, and I'm operating under pretty ideal conditions.  Sometimes I get a little wistful when I hear that my in-laws or parents are once again watching or hanging out with my nieces and nephews, but not having that ourselves on the regular is the trade-off for my husband to have the job he does.  

Since it sounds like you shoulder a lot of the childcare, what about a weekend away?  Maybe he will get just how much effort it is if he's doing 100% of it for a couple of days.

[curbsideprophet]

Jul 17, 2014 7:50:17 GMT -5 megs193 said:

Jul 17, 2014 6:37:45 GMT -5 twolittlecheers said:

Maybe this sounds harsh but I didn't have children and expect help to raise them. I think that is an issue with most people, they expect grandparents to step in and be there but that's not fair to grandparents. They already raised their children they shouldn't be expected to raise ours.
That being said my Dh travels a lot too. I'm home all the time by myself and we don't have any family or friend help but that is ok. They are my children, I take responsibility for them.
I think that either you want a 3rd or you don't. It sounds like you are comfortable with the 2 you already have and that your family feels complete.

I definitely don't expect my mom to "raise" them but I do think it is good for kids to know that there are other people they can rely on. My mom is a very hands on grandparent and wants to spend more time with them. She is the one who has offered help if we move back. I would never use her in place of daycare but it would be amazing to have support when I am sick, if one of my kids is really sick or if I was just at my breaking point. I have been taking 100% responsibility for them since the day they were born and I don't think it would make me any less of a parent to let a willing grandparent take over 10% of that responsibility.

I never got the impression you wanted your mom to "raise" your kids or even be full time childcare, so I am not sure where people are getting that from.

I wish I lived in the bubble where none of us ever got sick, there were never any conflicts for us to be in more than one place at one time, etc so that we never needed any help.

I also think it sounds like your DH just does not get it since he travels so much. It sounds like most of the work of having a third would fall to you.

[hermione]

I think it is a dangerous deal to make - I'll give you a third child if we move near my parents so they can help. What if you do this and a grandparent gets ill? What if they simply don't want to help as much as you think they do? What if your husband agrees and then feels the grandparents should be doing more?

I think it's a lot of pressure on the grandparents who don't even know they're being put in this position.

[Deleted]

Jul 17, 2014 8:00:08 GMT -5 redheadk said:

Holy crap people, if daycare does not raise your kids, then occasional help from grandma doesn't mean she's raising your kids either. Wtf.

Agree. However, speaking just for myself, I made it a condition of having #3 that I would have help juggling/entertaining the kids 3-4 hours a day. My H works long hours, has unpredictable travel, etc. AND he was the one who initially really wanted #3 (it was an unplanned pg.). He totally got it that the vast majority of childcare falls on me and that it's not fair for him to dictate ALL of the conditions of our lives. We already live where we do because of his job, his job is very demanding, and he's the one who originally wanted me to quit my job. But I wouldn't feel comfortable asking someone to watch one or more of my kids for 3-4 hours a day for free. I wanted to have enough time in the day to take the boys to their activities and out to play without dragging the baby around every where and disrupting her nap schedule. Plus get the occasional break altogether. If you have the $, even if it means temporarily reducing savings, I say just hire it. It's easier to have higher expectations for your help too if you're paying them (like no tv, must play with them interactively, only certain kinds of snacks, etc.). When my mom watches the kids, I give her a lot more leeway because I realize that she's doing me a big favor.

[redheadk]

Jul 17, 2014 8:33:16 GMT -5 @lcap said:

Jul 17, 2014 8:00:08 GMT -5 redheadk said:

Holy crap people, if daycare does not raise your kids, then occasional help from grandma doesn't mean she's raising your kids either. Wtf.

Agree. However, speaking just for myself, I made it a condition of having #3 that I would have help juggling/entertaining the kids 3-4 hours a day. My H works long hours, has unpredictable travel, etc. AND he was the one who initially really wanted #3 (it was an unplanned pg.). He totally got it that the vast majority of childcare falls on me and that it's not fair for him to dictate ALL of the conditions of our lives. We already live where we do because of his job, his job is very demanding, and he's the one who originally wanted me to quit my job. But I wouldn't feel comfortable asking someone to watch one or more of my kids for 3-4 hours a day for free. I wanted to have enough time in the day to take the boys to their activities and out to play without dragging the baby around every where and disrupting her nap schedule. Plus get the occasional break altogether. If you have the $, even if it means temporarily reducing savings, I say just hire it. It's easier to have higher expectations for your help too if you're paying them (like no tv, must play with them interactively, only certain kinds of snacks, etc.). When my mom watches the kids, I give her a lot more leeway because I realize that she's doing me a big favor.

That great for you. My DH also works long hours and I SAH so he can do what he does. Dd goes to mdo twice a week, my mom doesn't watch her for hours a day and it doesn't sound like that's what Meg's is looking for. For me, my mom is my pinch hitter instead of my DH. When I can't pick dd up from mdo bc the ac repairman is here, she goes to get her for me if she can. When we are buying a new car, my sister is happy to have her over for a few hours to play with my niece. Mom and I go get frozen yogurt with dd just for fun and having her there means adult conversation and someone to help. I grab lunch and take dd to my sisters house to hang out with them, they help entertain my dd, and it's an easy, stress-free way to get out if the house. I'm not imposing on anyone, they are THRILLED to have her around. There is a wide gulf between expecting this and 4 hours of daily childcare, especially when the op has stated that she doesn't expect mom to provide daycare.

[mpc]

We know a lot about why you want to move to CO but we don't know anything about why your DH wants to stay. Does he have good reasons, or is he just being a baby about it?

I hope you guys can work through this and find something you both agree on. You're right, having a kid and where to live are both issues that don't really have a compromise.

[Deleted]

Jul 17, 2014 8:53:01 GMT -5 redheadk said:

Jul 17, 2014 8:33:16 GMT -5 @lcap said:

Agree. However, speaking just for myself, I made it a condition of having #3 that I would have help juggling/entertaining the kids 3-4 hours a day. My H works long hours, has unpredictable travel, etc. AND he was the one who initially really wanted #3 (it was an unplanned pg.). He totally got it that the vast majority of childcare falls on me and that it's not fair for him to dictate ALL of the conditions of our lives. We already live where we do because of his job, his job is very demanding, and he's the one who originally wanted me to quit my job. But I wouldn't feel comfortable asking someone to watch one or more of my kids for 3-4 hours a day for free. I wanted to have enough time in the day to take the boys to their activities and out to play without dragging the baby around every where and disrupting her nap schedule. Plus get the occasional break altogether. If you have the $, even if it means temporarily reducing savings, I say just hire it. It's easier to have higher expectations for your help too if you're paying them (like no tv, must play with them interactively, only certain kinds of snacks, etc.). When my mom watches the kids, I give her a lot more leeway because I realize that she's doing me a big favor.

That great for you. My DH also works long hours and I SAH so he can do what he does. Dd goes to mdo twice a week, my mom doesn't watch her for hours a day and it doesn't sound like that's what Meg's is looking for. For me, my mom is my pinch hitter instead of my DH. When I can't pick dd up from mdo bc the ac repairman is here, she goes to get her for me if she can. When we are buying a new car, my sister is happy to have her over for a few hours to play with my niece. Mom and I go get frozen yogurt with dd just for fun and having her there means adult conversation and someone to help. I grab lunch and take dd to my sisters house to hang out with them, they help entertain my dd, and it's an easy, stress-free way to get out if the house. I'm not imposing on anyone, they are THRILLED to have her around. There is a wide gulf between expecting this and 4 hours of daily childcare, especially when the op has stated that she doesn't expect mom to provide daycare.

I agree, it sounds nice. However, it sounds like moving is a nonstarter for her DH and not going to happen. This being the case, I suggested looking into setting another condition, like hiring the help she needs. Having three kids home most of the day is hard work. It sounds like she wants to have the baby but just needs more help to make it doable. Another alternative could be telling her DH that she wants to wait until one or both of her older kids are in school full time. That would also make things dramatically easier. Also, when I hear the word "help" using someone as emergency backup on occasion isn't really what springs to mind for me, lol. Because in the usual course of things, that doesn't happen very often right? I think of it more as a weekly or daily occurrence. 

[jeaniebueller]

We live four hours away from our family, and it is rough at times with two small children. I don't begrudge anyone to make their family planning decisions based upon being your family for help. I would love to be closer to my mom or mother-in-law.

[SJ]

I think perhaps the way you worded it seemed unfair or like an ultimatum. But I completely understand and agree with your feelings.

Why doesn't your husband want to move? I would explore that more- hopefully as a separate conversation.

My parents are about 30 minutes away and I know it sounds ridiculous but I wish they were closer. I grew up with one set of grandparents next door and the other set 10 minutes away. We had weekly overnights and they were an enormous help to my parents. My parents truly want to do the same for us, but 1 hr round trip seems far for a quick babysitting gig so I can run to the store or go to dinner with DH or get spontaneous drinks with friends. I know most parents can't do those things, but it is a huge benefit of having able and willing and delighted family nearby.

Of course one shouldn't assume all grandparents will be willing or able to do xyz, but in many families and many cultures it is the norm for grandparents to be actively involved in raising children. I don't get any indication from the OP's post that she is overstepping or making assumptions.

[gibbinator]

I can see how your husband probably looks at it as an ultimatum rather than an explanation. It's fine and dandy for him to want more kids, but the burden of that decision is falling to you. So you're not being unreasonable, but I don't know how you can really explain it to him without him taking it wrong.

[rondonalddo]

Jul 17, 2014 7:25:50 GMT -5 AmyRI said:

Jul 16, 2014 20:26:48 GMT -5 megs193 said:

I usually try to ignore it but to be perfectly honest I would pretty much do anything to get him to move so I saw an opportunity to try to sway him but I think it backfired.

I think you owe your DH an apology. Bargaining like that is a super shitty thing to do.

These are 2 separate issues that need to be handled separately.

And it sounds like you're mad in general that you had to quit your job because your DH travels for his. Yet another issue that needs to be discussed.

If you need more help with the kids, or longer breaks, than tell him that flat out. I understand that you want your family to be the ones helping you, but right now you can hire a babysitter, put the kids in daycare part time, or make Saturdays your "day off" to get things done kid-free. Find a way to improve your circumstances where you are instead of just putting all your grief on your husband because he doesn't want to move.

The bolded, there. OP, you sound like you are drowning in childcare and housework right now. Your situation is making you unhappy NOW and it needs to be addressed, regardless of whether or not a third child is in the cards for you. You seem frustrated and unhappy-- no wonder you would jump at the chance to get some help (but I can also see why your H felt offended by the offer).

[redheadk]

Jul 17, 2014 9:50:33 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Jul 17, 2014 6:37:45 GMT -5 twolittlecheers said:

Maybe this sounds harsh but I didn't have children and expect help to raise them. I think that is an issue with most people, they expect grandparents to step in and be there but that's not fair to grandparents. They already raised their children they shouldn't be expected to raise ours.
That being said my Dh travels a lot too. I'm home all the time by myself and we don't have any family or friend help but that is ok. They are my children, I take responsibility for them.
I think that either you want a 3rd or you don't. It sounds like you are comfortable with the 2 you already have and that your family feels complete.

Harsh and a little ridiculous frankly. 
...

Some people have that relationship with their parents or in-laws. If someone has that there's no need to act like that is something strange or something to be shamed for. 

YES.

Just like both of my sisters help out with my DD, I also help out with my sister's SD. She's here all summer and while I can't take her every day for my sister since she has to leave for work too early and we live 20 minutes apart, I am more than happy to work it out to watch my niece for the day if my sister needs some help. I love my niece and it's a great way to spend some extra time with her AND help my sister out. I have 2 sisters and we are all very close. This is completely normal for our family and I think it's pretty normal for MANY families, just as it's normal for some people to not live near family that can help. Neither is wrong but both situations have a pretty strong impact on peoples daily lives.

[Deleted]

I was so disappointed when my BIL's job didn't happen that would have let them move to our city. It would have completely changed both my life and my sister's to live in the same place. Like, I would have bought a minivan to let me drive all the kids around. And likely they would have, too. My mom coming to visit is more of a vacation for me than going on vacation. We do have some support from DH's family, and the reason we'd never move to another city is that family support is priceless to us.

I'm not asking other people to raise my kids for me, but family support from great family really is amazing. I can see it impacting family size, definitely.

[megs193]

Jul 17, 2014 7:37:28 GMT -5 barefootcontessa said:

Jul 16, 2014 20:26:48 GMT -5 megs193 said:

I'm 31 and he is 35.  I usually try to ignore it but to be perfectly honest I would pretty much do anything to get him to move so I saw an opportunity to try to sway him but I think it backfired.

why is he so against moving when he can keep his job and travels all the time anyway?  why does he get the final say about moving?  does he not see how hard it is to solo parent while he is away?  

He says he is against moving because his family and our friends are here. I am sure that is part of it but I think the biggest part is that he is afraid I won't need him anymore. His parents pretty much only call him when they need something so he is definitely insecure about people wanting a relationship with him only because is "needed".

[barefootcontessa]

Jul 17, 2014 11:05:05 GMT -5 megs193 said:

Jul 17, 2014 7:37:28 GMT -5 barefootcontessa said:

why is he so against moving when he can keep his job and travels all the time anyway?  why does he get the final say about moving?  does he not see how hard it is to solo parent while he is away?  

He says he is against moving because his family and our friends are here. I am sure that is part of it but I think the biggest part is that he is afraid I won't need him anymore. His parents pretty much only call him when they need something so he is definitely insecure about people wanting a relationship with him only because is "needed".

I think I would continue to discuss this with him.  It would be great for your children to have a closer relationship with their grandparents and cousins, in addition to giving you support.  I know how isolating it is not to have family close by (or family that want to help).  My DH works a lot of hours but he does not travel which I think makes a huge difference.    

[ilikedonuts]

Jul 17, 2014 11:05:05 GMT -5 megs193 said:

Jul 17, 2014 7:37:28 GMT -5 barefootcontessa said:

why is he so against moving when he can keep his job and travels all the time anyway?  why does he get the final say about moving?  does he not see how hard it is to solo parent while he is away?  

He says he is against moving because his family and our friends are here. I am sure that is part of it but I think the biggest part is that he is afraid I won't need him anymore. His parents pretty much only call him when they need something so he is definitely insecure about people wanting a relationship with him only because is "needed".

I think its really selfish of him to basically base his entire decision on what HE wants and not what will make your life easier when you are the one doing 100% of the childcare and house stuff along with working. If he can work from anywhere, he should be open. I'm sorry he is acting this way. And I 100% understand why you would not want to them take on raising a 3rd child by yourself without family support. I wouldn't want to either.

[megs193]

Jul 17, 2014 12:40:33 GMT -5 ilikedonuts said:

Jul 17, 2014 11:05:05 GMT -5 megs193 said:

He says he is against moving because his family and our friends are here. I am sure that is part of it but I think the biggest part is that he is afraid I won't need him anymore. His parents pretty much only call him when they need something so he is definitely insecure about people wanting a relationship with him only because is "needed".

I think its really selfish of him to basically base his entire decision on what HE wants and not what will make your life easier when you are the one doing 100% of the childcare and house stuff along with working. If he can work from anywhere, he should be open. I'm sorry he is acting this way. And I 100% understand why you would not want to them take on raising a 3rd child by yourself without family support. I wouldn't want to either.

In our most recent conversation he actually admitted that it was better for me AND for our kids. I'm very frustrated by it and I wish that he could see it from my perspective.

[gibbinator]

Jul 17, 2014 12:44:15 GMT -5 megs193 said:

Jul 17, 2014 12:40:33 GMT -5 ilikedonuts said:

I think its really selfish of him to basically base his entire decision on what HE wants and not what will make your life easier when you are the one doing 100% of the childcare and house stuff along with working. If he can work from anywhere, he should be open. I'm sorry he is acting this way. And I 100% understand why you would not want to them take on raising a 3rd child by yourself without family support. I wouldn't want to either.

In our most recent conversation he actually admitted that it was better for me AND for our kids. I'm very frustrated by it and I wish that he could see it from my perspective.

I'm confused.... You mean he says he knows it would be better for everyone else in his family if you moved? And knowing your be willing to have a third? And he's always traveling anyway? And yet won't even entertain the idea? Yeah, that's pretty selfish.

[pig's eye]

Ok. So he's being a dick. I probably would have said the same thing. 

I think this needs to be talked out though because there's going to be a lot of resentment on both sides here. 

[Deleted]

I pretty much refuse to have a second baby until we move closer to my family, so...